949 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

AEgg, on 10 January 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

We have two substantially different groups in CW

not really
you ahve the "group" that likes CW and no MM
and you have the "group" that continues to dig up strawman after strawman as to why CW should ahve separate solo queue
EDIT:
Actually you're right, you ahve 2 groups.
1 that understands the principles behind CW, teamwork, coordination, comms, etc.
2 that thinks they should jsut be able to rambo around on their own and win (can't have it both ways especially in CW)

Riddle me this if what you say is true

Why are the Marik new players and "solo" type players not having this bad of an experience?
Think it could have something to do with how we use faction chat and make new players and solos feel welcome and show them it doesn't take any special commitment or anything to come join us and drop alongside some other gamers?

Edited by Sandpit, 10 January 2016 - 03:38 PM.

[Bonger Bob]

Sandpit, on 10 January 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

you have the "group" that likes CW and no MM
...................................

you left of the seal clubbing entitlement elitist attitude along with the lack of any desire to be paired against someone of equal skill.

just because someone doesn't want to jump into your TS and "party" with you, does not immediately make them rambo style solo's with no skill who are only in it for themselves. The fact that a win in CW rounds yields more rewards is what makes team work a driving force that people play for, this is not the exclusive domain of TS users.

like me trying to say that ALL people who use TS are elitist twats that any normal person would go to great lengths to avoid.

the sooner people like yourself accept the fact that not all people who don't use 3rd party programs to fill holes in the game client are totally devoid of any desire to work in and with a team of players in a round, the sooner you might have people believe that your not wanting things change just so you can maintain a seal clubbing round while not being paired in a challenging round very often. It goes both ways.

you advocate using TS over the game client voip, yet say the voip in game is fine, you say there is nothing wrong with CW and the zero match making, yet you don't want roflstomp rounds to end. You want your "hard mode" but don't want to be challenged often. You want CW to remain open, yet you only want TS using players to succeed, again while advocating the game voip is not lacking in any way.

Every time you make contradictory statements, the truth of what you type is more clearly seen.

Edited by Bonger Bob, 10 January 2016 - 04:11 PM.

[Sandpit]

Bonger Bob, on 10 January 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

just because someone doesn't want to jump into your TS and "party" with you, does not immediately make them rambo style solo's with no skill who are only in it for themselves.

yes yes because I said, implied, hinted at, etc. any of that.
Pay attention

Sandpit, on 09 January 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

all I'm going to say is that if you really aren't trying to say those things, that's how it's coming across.

I dont' know if it's miscommunication, misunderstanding, etc. but just about everything your'e saying is coming across like the following

PUGs and/or solo players are drooling morons who can't read a warning
Anyone not wanting separate queues is some sort of evil big unit just wanting to club seals
Solo players need to be "protected" from other players for some reason


That's really what it sounds like you're getting at with a lot of your arguments. I'm not being facetious or attacking you here, I'm simply trying to point out that after 3 years some of us are kinda tired of listening to the reason some players consistently lose is premades.

The players sitting here trying to tell you and the others like that all you really have to do to be more successful in CW is quite simply use in game VOIP, work together, and use faction chat.

That's all there really is to it. I don't care how you try to spin it, how you try to look at it, how you try to sensationalize it, that's all it is.

Those taht are stubborn, hard-headed, downright beligerent sometimes at the "gall" of someone giving "orders" (IE someone simply trying to help direct traffic so the team knows where to shoot) and continue trying to push PGI to make CW "easier" continue to deny these simple strategies, techniques, tools, and advice that would increase their win and CW experience overall are on their own by their own choice.

If they want to play like that there are perfectly good, functioning, enabled, etc. public queues to drop in where you don't have to worry about those "pesky" premades.

Stop thinking that the entire game and every feature, mode, etc. should revolve exclusively around that specific player. DO you see a single "CW groups are good" type player suggesting they switch the pub queues?
No you do not

Want to know why? Because they know that that particular queue and mode are exclusively for those players and notice that there's only one group of players here trying to restrict even further and segregate even further the player populations in the name of "seal clubbing"


Use your VOIP
Use your faction chat
Use teamwork

Plain and simple

If you cannot, will not, don't, use those two simple things then CW very plainly and simply is not the game mode you're looking for.

Sandpit, on 09 January 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

positive impact on me?

I drop solo and PUG almost exclusively.
Please tell me how you're taking this stance of "us vs. them" with me when I drop exactly like the players you're trying to "improve" things for?

If you don't bother reading, and learning about the suggestions that others have come up with such as
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1


so take your "will someone think of the children and seals" propaganda and just leave it at home next time.

Posters, and posters like you? Who try to attack and paint players who don't like YOUR idea as some sort of "evil boogeyman" to try and gain support for your idea at the expense of another player's public image, reputation, etc.

maybe you should put that creativity and drive to doing something constructive like participating in constructive discussions to help improve MWO (everything including CW) for EVERYone instead of "just me"

When you want to have a serious discussion and help kick around ideas instead of pointing fingers at people who didn't like your idea, come join the adults

Try talking about what's being said next time instead of trying to put your own "interpretation" on what's being said

[Bonger Bob]

Sandpit, on 10 January 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

yes yes because I said, implied, hinted at, etc. any of that.
Pay attention

Try talking about what's being said next time instead of trying to put your own "interpretation" on what's being said

yup, more of your many posts with a common theme of batching anyone who doesn't voip / group as a rambo solo player devoid of team skills, but i guess thats your point.

If you don't like the crying, you actually do want a challenge and not just more roflstomp, you would want something to address the inequity that exists in CW.

Continually defending the total lack of matching that occurs on any level in CW only reinforces the view that you do not seek a challenge each time you drop, you want to have matches where one side is roflstomped and the other is no challenged.

If you played CW for the reasons you state along the lines of "hard mode" etc, then you would have no issue with anything being introduced that would allow more even matches that would challenge yourself more often, does it get boring roflstomping one side ???, is it boring to be roflstomped ???. Everything you've typed defends a mode where there is Zero challenge, just dumb luck.

Being more skilled and dropping against an inferior side for a round is about as challenging as brushing your teeth in the morning. Constantly defending the perceived right to do so, only makes you part of the problem and a lesser player for it. If you desire a challenge for your skill level, CW match making would not be such a sore point for you, but its transparent as to why you don't want change. Your running out of excuses.

[Sandpit]

Bonger Bob, on 10 January 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

yup, more of your many posts with a common theme of batching anyone who doesn't voip / group as a rambo solo player devoid of team skills, but i guess thats your point.

lol sure thing
gl&gh sparky
I'll pull you off the ignore list when you show you can carry adult conversations and stop with you "woe as me" propaganda
good day sir

[AEgg]

Sandpit, on 10 January 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

lol sure thing
gl&gh sparky
I'll pull you off the ignore list when you show you can carry adult conversations and stop with you "woe as me" propaganda
good day sir

Ignoring personal attacks that have absolutely no bearing on the issue, what's the downside to having a solo queue and a group queue in CW? (As always, given that population is large enough to keep all queues populated for all factions)

[N0MAD]

Bob is right, if so called hard mode players wanted true competition they would be lobbying PGI hard for a true hardcore mode where casuals and pugs would not be facing organised teams.
If what Russ has stated is true that player numbers are at an all time high then there should be no problem in splitting the CW bucket into say a group Q of groups 4+ and a Q for pugs and groups of 3 or less, with an all time high population this should be doable, dont you group guys wana play organised teams rather than Pugs?

[Sandpit]

AEgg, on 10 January 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Ignoring personal attacks that have absolutely no bearing on the issue, what's the downside to having a solo queue and a group queue in CW? (As always, given that population is large enough to keep all queues populated for all factions)

It's been stated
numerous times
every time you've asked
in this very thread
stop asking the same question expecting a different answer

[MischiefSC]

So if you don't want to play solo against teams you don't have to. Play pug queue.

You don't get to win a war by just not having to fight the organized enemy troops. If you fight in the war you fight the enemy no matter who that is. Because the war isn't about you having fair, balanced matches.

It's about winning the war.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

So if you don't want to play solo against teams you don't have to. Play pug queue.

You don't get to win a war by just not having to fight the organized enemy troops. If you fight in the war you fight the enemy no matter who that is. Because the war isn't about you having fair, balanced matches.

It's about winning the war.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why it is Marik doesn't seem to be having this problem in CW.
It's amazing how several of us have laid out several options and ways for players to improve CW without doing anything other than typing a few words now and then.

[AEgg]

Sandpit, on 10 January 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

It's been stated
numerous times
every time you've asked
in this very thread
stop asking the same question expecting a different answer

Point me to it please. Humor me.

Simply stating that people can join a group (be it a unit or a pick up group via teamspeak) and thus we don't need to separate them since they're shouldn't be any solos, doesn't really say why groups and solos shouldn't be separate.

Edited by AEgg, 10 January 2016 - 05:28 PM.

[Mystere]

Bonger Bob, on 10 January 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

yup, more of your many posts with a common theme of batching anyone who doesn't voip / group as a rambo solo player devoid of team skills, but i guess thats your point.

If you don't like the crying, you actually do want a challenge and not just more roflstomp, you would want something to address the inequity that exists in CW.

Continually defending the total lack of matching that occurs on any level in CW only reinforces the view that you do not seek a challenge each time you drop, you want to have matches where one side is roflstomped and the other is no challenged.

Some people are really dense. So I will repeat two simple lessons:

Mystere, on 07 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Local resident on radio:

"Help! Help! We're under attack! Send the army now! These foreign barbarians are massacring the population! Help us please!"

Military Command:

"Mam, I'm afraid we cannot help you at this time. You're facing a ragtag band of enemies. But, the current rules of war dictate that we can only send an equally ragtag band. Unfortunately, our military has none, and so I guess you all just have to submit to your new masters while we try to scrounge up and arm some local peasants from a nearby planet ... Yikes! We do not have any peasants!"

Doesn't that sound insane?

Mystere, on 09 January 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

Roman Civilian:

Help! Help! Barbarians are at the gates!

Roman General:

We can't help you mam! We only have legions of Praetorian Guards available.

Do you still not see how silly it is?

Having said those, the solution is more imaginative game modes that soften the blow for new players, not separation or matchmaking.

AEgg, on 10 January 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Ignoring personal attacks that have absolutely no bearing on the issue, what's the downside to having a solo queue and a group queue in CW? (As always, given that population is large enough to keep all queues populated for all factions)

Downside? I no longer have a "war", just another flavor of "eSports".

N0MAD, on 10 January 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

Bob is right, if so called hard mode players wanted true competition they would be lobbying PGI hard for a true hardcore mode where casuals and pugs would not be facing organised teams.
If what Russ has stated is true that player numbers are at an all time high then there should be no problem in splitting the CW bucket into say a group Q of groups 4+ and a Q for pugs and groups of 3 or less, with an all time high population this should be doable, dont you group guys wana play organised teams rather than Pugs?

Buckets? Competition? Smells like "eSports" to me.

Edited by Mystere, 10 January 2016 - 05:37 PM.

[MischiefSC]

AEgg, on 10 January 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

Point me to it please. Humor me.

Simply stating that people can join a group (be it a unit or a pick up group via teamspeak) and thus we don't need to separate them since they're shouldn't be any solos, doesn't really say why groups and solos shouldn't be separate.

Okay.

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

So if you don't want to play solo against teams you don't have to. Play pug queue.

You don't get to win a war by just not having to fight the organized enemy troops. If you fight in the war you fight the enemy no matter who that is. Because the war isn't about you having fair, balanced matches.

It's about winning the war.

Mystere, on 10 January 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

Some people are really dense. So I will repeat two simple lessons:




Having said those, the solution is more imaginative game modes that soften the blow for new players, not separation or matchmaking.

[vandalhooch]

AEgg, on 10 January 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Ignoring personal attacks that have absolutely no bearing on the issue, what's the downside to having a solo queue and a group queue in CW? (As always, given that population is large enough to keep all queues populated for all factions)

A split queue obviates the need for a units, tags, factions, or even a galaxy map.

A split queue eliminates the Faction part of Faction Play and turns it into just another mode for Quick Play.

Some players actually care about the map. Some players want a more immersive experience. A split queue is advocating for a shallower, more artificial experience.

[N0MAD]

Mischief, war is war and not a computer game, you know this right?.
Let me disappoint you a little here, War will never be waged by bipedal 100 ton machines, simple thing like PSI will guarantee that.

[Sandpit]

N0MAD, on 10 January 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Mischief, war is war and not a computer game, you know this right?.
Let me disappoint you a little here, War will never be waged by bipedal 100 ton machines, simple thing like PSI will guarantee that.

you know you're playing a computer WAR game right?

[vandalhooch]

N0MAD, on 10 January 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

Mischief, war is war and not a computer game, you know this right?.
Let me disappoint you a little here, War will never be waged by bipedal 100 ton machines, simple thing like PSI will guarantee that.

Nothing like a good strawman to follow up the dozens of other strawmen already thrown up in this thread.

Thanks.

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 10 January 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

you know you're playing a computer WAR game right?

I'm sorry, but in this day and age many people seem to confuse a "war game" as just another form of "eSports".

[AEgg]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

Okay.

Edit:not sure why this didn't quote right...

How is that a downside to split queues? Or even relevant to split queues at all? "Don't Play CW" is a statement to an individual, it doesn't have anything to do with the game mode.

I've already addressed Mystere's scenarios, they only happen when a queue is empty.

If a queue isn't empty, then they translate to "Barbarians at the gate". "Ok, flip a coin. Heads, we send barbarians at them, tails, we send Praetorian Guards at them". Still nonsense. Your battles are determined by luck, not by who has the better team.

vandalhooch, on 10 January 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

A split queue obviates the need for a units, tags, factions, or even a galaxy map.

A split queue eliminates the Faction part of Faction Play and turns it into just another mode for Quick Play.

Some players actually care about the map. Some players want a more immersive experience. A split queue is advocating for a shallower, more artificial experience.

How does it do that? How are 12 solos any less part of a faction than 12 players in a group? Just because you don't join a unit doesn't mean you don't want to support your faction. And if the matchmaker (or lack thereof) is setting up stomps when it could be setting up balanced matches with the same group of players, isn't that detracting from your unit's involvement, not adding to it?

It's not a shallower experience if you just continue to play group queue. You just will be facing better opposition and wasting less time in matches that provide no challenge at all.

Unless we block solos from playing CW, they will be there, and since they vastly outnumber grouped players (at least according to PGI...), they will have a big impact on the overall outcome. At least with split queues how much groups and solos influence the outcome can be a set value (ideally 50/50 but it could be 90/10 in favor of groups if we want it to be).

Edited by AEgg, 10 January 2016 - 05:46 PM.

[N0MAD]

vandalhooch, on 10 January 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

Nothing like a good strawman to follow up the dozens of other strawmen already thrown up in this thread.

Thanks.

How is this Strawman?