949 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

SoulReaver7500, on 10 January 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

I have no problems with CW, I never waste my time on it

Thank you for your very insightful contribution on the topic.

[Deathlike]

vandalhooch, on 10 January 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

No. I call it Faction Warfare. You know what might help your faction out? Getting all of those new players to learn coordination, build better mechs, and play more drops. My enjoyment of this game increased significantly after I joined a unit of players who also enjoy this game (except Deathlike). I'm not sure he enjoys anything. He's an enigma of the cosmos.

The thing about this thread is that I've seen said logic when it came to separating solo players from the groups/premades. I believed then that it made sense... mostly in the fact that solo players needed a "beginner's stepping stone". Maybe I should be reconsidering that position.

The problem with using said said logic with CW is that is that it is a stepping stone to the ENDGAME mode (one step below true competitive - like leagues). Having new players play "hard mode" immediately only serves to put frustration ontop of frustration... that's why the split queues for non-CW modes were invented.

I hear all the same cries from many players that are "not that good"... like (large) premades being OP... roflstomping is bad and such excuses. Making assumptions about "lesser skilled large premades" and then executing bad tactics w/o any concern for your own responsibility is pretty much a self-serving argument for failure.

Trying to make excuses for failure is the core reason this thread exists.. instead of taking personal responsibility. It's really as simple as that.

[Aelos03]

spectralthundr, on 10 January 2016 - 08:22 PM, said:

This entire thread breaks down to "Teamwork is OP, PGI, please nerf" It's so absolutely ridiculous on every level.

Of course Teamwork is OP that is why you can't have full team against random people in any game. It is not fun for either party. If we had lobbies to organize and all goodies we asked over the years then sure this would be less of an issue. So no it is not ridiculous.

[spectralthundr]

Aelos03, on 10 January 2016 - 11:34 PM, said:

Of course Teamwork is OP that is why you can't have full team against random people in any game. It is not fun for either party. If we had lobbies to organize and all goodies we asked over the years then sure this would be less of an issue. So no it is not ridiculous.

You have tools to mitigate it, House TS, LFG tools built into the game, Faction chat built into the game, VOIP built into the game. If you don't want to utilize said tools to promote teamwork in the one game mode that really requires teamwork, I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps stick to the pug queue.

[Aelos03]

spectralthundr, on 11 January 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

You have tools to mitigate it, House TS, LFG tools built into the game, Faction chat built into the game, VOIP built into the game. If you don't want to utilize said tools to promote teamwork in the one game mode that really requires teamwork, I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps stick to the pug queue.

That is farcry from what it should be like whole UI is one mess.Even if it was perfect you don't put 12 man drops against randoms. There is no excuse for that period.

[Ihasa]

Aelos03, on 11 January 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

That is farcry from what it should be like whole UI is one mess.Even if it was perfect you don't put 12 man drops against randoms. There is no excuse for that period.

Yes, there is. It's called small, limited playerbase. having 3, 5 gallon buckets for which to divide 2 gallons of water is no bueno. A fundamental and pervasive shift of thinking needs to occur at PGI in order to rectify this. My belief is that either their egos or their ignorance will prevail and prevent such. And if those don't, it will be too little, too late to enact anyway.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2016 - 07:37 PM, said:

There is nothing available to a premade I don't have access to pugging. Nothing at all. No magic trick, no better weapons or gear. The only thing that splits a premade from a pug is that SOMETIMES (not always, or even most the time, just sometimes) the other people on your team are willing to work together consistently.

That's it. That's all. The premades that everyone is crying about? 228, MS, KCom, CSJ, NS, et al? They will kick your *** in the pug queue too.

Seriously if you think that a practised, co ordinated team has little advantage, tech aside, to a pug group, then you know nothing about competition or indeed fairness or balance within a competitive game.
And btw buddy, most of the players in premades from these 228s etc etc ( not singling out 228 brothers) ive found to be well, ordinary alone or in small groups, ive played them in the past, these guys ive outplayed/outscored as others have done to me.
But honestly if you really beleive that been in an organised group playing vs a pug group in a game is not a big advantage then really i dont understand you people and cant take you seriously.
Had my say and will leave it at that, i concede, Organised tems dont have advantages over pugs and its totally fair.
There i admitted it you won the debate.

Peace in our time.

[pwnface]

Johnny Z, on 10 January 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

Nope. This entire thread breaks down to less newbies/synch droppers is OP. Also teams with one cheat to give them the edge and enemy location info is OP.

But maybe I'm wrong. Any of the top teams not had a few bans yet? Don't be shy.

You are incredibly paranoid about the prevalence of cheats in MWO. I think this is a personal issue for you.

[pwnface]

N0MAD, on 11 January 2016 - 02:57 AM, said:

Seriously if you think that a practised, co ordinated team has little advantage, tech aside, to a pug group, then you know nothing about competition or indeed fairness or balance within a competitive game.
And btw buddy, most of the players in premades from these 228s etc etc ( not singling out 228 brothers) ive found to be well, ordinary alone or in small groups, ive played them in the past, these guys ive outplayed/outscored as others have done to me.
But honestly if you really beleive that been in an organised group playing vs a pug group in a game is not a big advantage then really i dont understand you people and cant take you seriously.
Had my say and will leave it at that, i concede, Organised tems dont have advantages over pugs and its totally fair.
There i admitted it you won the debate.

Peace in our time.

I think you are arguing MischeifSC point for him. There is often a coordination gap and/or skill gap but that is as far as the advantages go. Premades aren't inherently better and don't have extraordinary game advantages.

[Johnny Z]

pwnface, on 11 January 2016 - 02:59 AM, said:

You are incredibly paranoid about the prevalence of cheats in MWO. I think this is a personal issue for you.

You wish. Also you like throwing insults to change the subject.

Also its not a personal thing all legit players have a problem with cheaters/hackers. The games themselves ban cheaters to so your effort to throw the problem at me fails.

I assume your in a unit and that your reply means no one in your unit has been banned for cheating. Grats.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 January 2016 - 05:34 AM.

[Hotthedd]

pwnface, on 11 January 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

I think you are arguing MischeifSC point for him. There is often a coordination gap and/or skill gap but that is as far as the advantages go. Premades aren't inherently better and don't have extraordinary game advantages.

The way I see it is that premades DO have a distinct advantage over solos.

The thing is that THIS IS TOTALLY FINE!!

There is nothing at all WRONG with people grouping together to increase their efficiency. I would further argue that grouping together (whether in a Unit or just on TS) should be ENCOURAGED, and FACILITATED in MW:O.

Punishing coordinated groups for being coordinated groups is the absolute wrong direction MW:O should go. Instead, the game should make it even easier for solo players and especially new players to form groups and join a unit. Because apparently it is still too difficult for many people.

[spectralthundr]

Hotthedd, on 11 January 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

The way I see it is that premades DO have a distinct advantage over solos.

The thing is that THIS IS TOTALLY FINE!!

There is nothing at all WRONG with people grouping together to increase their efficiency. I would further argue that grouping together (whether in a Unit or just on TS) should be ENCOURAGED, and FACILITATED in MW:O.

Punishing coordinated groups for being coordinated groups is the absolute wrong direction MW:O should go. Instead, the game should make it even easier for solo players and especially new players to form groups and join a unit. Because apparently it is still too difficult for many people.

Sadly that's exactly what some in this thread are asking for, because they either 1. don't want to make the effort to help newer players. 2. Don't want to make the effort to try and lead drops in CW dropping solo. 3. Have had a big mean 12 man touch them inappropriately and feel that if they cry to PGI loudly enough, people that utilize teamwork will be punished in a team based game.

It's very represented of the special snowflake syndrome that has affected any and everything today from college campuses, to special interests groups, to even gaming now.

[MerryIguana]

[Lily from animove]

Hotthedd, on 11 January 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

The way I see it is that premades DO have a distinct advantage over solos.

The thing is that THIS IS TOTALLY FINE!!

There is nothing at all WRONG with people grouping together to increase their efficiency. I would further argue that grouping together (whether in a Unit or just on TS) should be ENCOURAGED, and FACILITATED in MW:O.

Punishing coordinated groups for being coordinated groups is the absolute wrong direction MW:O should go. Instead, the game should make it even easier for solo players and especially new players to form groups and join a unit. Because apparently it is still too difficult for many people.

you cna hardly make it even easier now, it's just people unwilling wanting to even use the given posibilities. Allt hey want is to have the same fun without even putting a minimum of effort into it.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 January 2016 - 08:03 AM.

[Hotthedd]

Lily from animove, on 11 January 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

you cna hardly make it even easier now, it's just people unwilling wanting to even use the given posibilities. Allt hey want is to have the same fun without even putting a minimum of effort into it.

And that group has been catered to, it is the solo queue for Quick Play.

Apparently more needs to be done to facilitate team play (even by solos) in CW, short of forcing it. Solo players need to accept the fact that dropping solo in CW means the possibility of facing the best groups. This is something I know and accept every time I make that choice. Honestly, new players that haven't yet acquired the tools to be successful in CW, need to be encouraged to develop their skills, build an effective drop deck, elite or master their 'mechs, and equip modules BEFORE dropping solo in CW. Otherwise they are a burden to their team.

[stoogah]

Hotthedd, on 11 January 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

The way I see it is that premades DO have a distinct advantage over solos.

The thing is that THIS IS TOTALLY FINE!!

There is nothing at all WRONG with people grouping together to increase their efficiency. I would further argue that grouping together (whether in a Unit or just on TS) should be ENCOURAGED, and FACILITATED in MW:O.

Punishing coordinated groups for being coordinated groups is the absolute wrong direction MW:O should go. Instead, the game should make it even easier for solo players and especially new players to form groups and join a unit. Because apparently it is still too difficult for many people.

You are missing something. Some players don't want to join units, form units or play in coordinated groups. Some players enjoy random pugs while running lrm atlas and listening to some good music (not some people voice on TS).
Units don't want to play with pugs, pugs don't want to play with units. Separate queue? Nooo... because reasons. Too small player base? BS. Since units and pugs don't want to play with each other then what's the difference? Well... units won't be spawncamping pugs anymore. No more easy wins - that's the problem... for some at least.
Let people decide with who they want to play.
It works in quick play, it will work in CW... becase as OP stated some people will quit cw or the game itself if spawncamping weaker team is a standard behavior. Or they won't if they will have a choice how/with who to play. It's for your own good because happy pug people > no people at all. THEN there is potential for something more.

[Hotthedd]

stoogah, on 11 January 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

You are missing something. Some players don't want to join units, form units or play in coordinated groups. Some players enjoy random pugs while running lrm atlas and listening to some good music (not some people voice on TS).

I didn't miss that at all. All I said was that those people must realize that the shark tank contains sharks.

stoogah, on 11 January 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

Units don't want to play with pugs, pugs don't want to play with units. Separate queue? Nooo... because reasons. Too small player base? BS. Since units and pugs don't want to play with each other then what's the difference? Well... units won't be spawncamping pugs anymore. No more easy wins - that's the problem... for some at least.

I disagree that units do not want to play with pugs. As a matter of fact, For units, playing with Pugs is the best recruiting tool at their disposal. I also disagree that PuGs do not want to play with units. It is always nice for ME as a solo player to get the occasional drop with a group on my team, as I know that the team will be at least somewhat coordinated.
What I think you meant to convey was that (many) PuGs do not want to play AGAINST units. Good news for them: There is a solo queue in the Quick Play mode.

stoogah, on 11 January 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

Let people decide with who they want to play.
It works in quick play, it will work in CW... becase as OP stated some people will quit cw or the game itself if spawncamping weaker team is a standard behavior. Or they won't if they will have a choice how/with who to play. It's for your own good because happy pug people > no people at all. THEN there is potential for something more.

People CAN decide! If they want to avoid organized groups, it is EASY to do. They can play in the solo queue Quick Play kiddie pool.
Spawn camping is a fault of PGI's game design, not the players.

The whole entitlement mentality of players believing they DESERVE to have their own kiddie pool for every game mode is a sad symptom of where we are headed as a species.

Edited by Hotthedd, 11 January 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[Almond Brown]

pwnface, on 08 January 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

You are right of course, I can't force other players to do anything.

At the same time, I'm not obligated to be nice or take it easy on other players because they are unwilling to do what it takes to win or at least put up a decent fight.

If you are a new player in CW and are unwilling to listen or learn at all, then goodbye. We're better off without them. We need less mindless lemmings in CW.

Only one real issue with that "attitude". A "lemming" might actually be able to become a "better player" with some help, whereas playing by yourself, after you have chased off all the Lemmings, is not likely to much more fun in the long run.

So chase off ALL those lemmings at your own peril...

Edited by Almond Brown, 11 January 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[pwnface]

Johnny Z, on 11 January 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

You wish. Also you like throwing insults to change the subject.

Also its not a personal thing all legit players have a problem with cheaters/hackers. The games themselves ban cheaters to so your effort to throw the problem at me fails.

I assume your in a unit and that your reply means no one in your unit has been banned for cheating. Grats.

Actually, I didn't insult you at all, I merely pointed out that your belief that cheats and hacks run rampant in this game is ill-conceived.

Also, you'll notice in my forum signature banner proudly displayed the name of the unit I'm a part of. No, nobody in my unit has ever been banned for cheating and I have no reason to believe ANYONE in my unit is cheating either, but yeah thanks for the insults.

Why is it so hard to believe that players can be better than you at the game? Not everyone who is good at this game is cheating, some people simply play more, play smarter, or are just more naturally gifted than you. That's okay though, it's just a game. You don't have to be the best. Blindly throwing out accusations of "hax" is pretty distasteful though.

Anyone who has watched me play can tell you that I don't cheat. I make mistakes often enough and my aim is not impeccable, yet I have terribads like you accusing me of "hax" and "aimbot" on a weekly basis. Know how that makes me feel?


feels good man.

Edited by pwnface, 11 January 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[pwnface]

Almond Brown, on 11 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Only one real issue with that "attitude". A "lemming" might actually be able to become a "better player" with some help, whereas playing by yourself, after yuo have chased off all the Lemmings, is not likely to much more fun in the long run.

So chase off ALL those lemmings at your own peril...

"Lemmings" will only become better with help. There are tons of groups who are willing to help train newbies to become better pilots, this includes Night's Scorn. We invite players to our teamspeak and share builds and strategies with whoever we play with. The real issue is a lot of "lemmings" don't want to listen to anyone else and don't want to become better.

There are so many incidences of us dropping in as a 8-11 man group and solo pugs completely unwilling to listen to our strategy. We ask to group up somewhere and often there will be a solo player running off on their own suiciding all 4 of their mechs on our first wave. We ask them not to stream in when there are only 2 guys left on our wave, "NOPE" not going to listen to reason at all.

The "Help" to train new players is there, forcing "Help" on players who don't want it simply won't work.