949 replies to this topic

[Aelos03]

pwnface, on 12 January 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Again, nothing is stopping teams from queueing up as all solos or as smaller groups to speed up matchmaking. Since players are able to choose which planet they want to attack or defend, it is incredibly easy to sync drop on the same team.

So? you are saying like that can't be fixed.

[Hotthedd]

Almond Brown, on 12 January 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

What is this "economics" you speak of. I be playing a video game over here...

It's like the "Paulconomy", except it's real and actually makes sense.

[CDLord HHGD]

Hotthedd, on 12 January 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

It's like the "Paulconomy", except it's real and actually makes sense.

Well, not sure if it makes sense or is purposely trying to confuse....

[Kin3ticX]

JaxRiot, on 12 January 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

But the Units wont let that happen.

I think you are overestimating how much unit to dev communication is going on regarding CW. AFAIK its practically nonexistent. Not sure how you think units arnt letting something happen.

[Aelos03]

Kin3ticX, on 12 January 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

I think you are overestimating how much unit to dev communication is going on regarding CW. AFAIK its practically nonexistent. Not sure how you think units arnt letting something happen.

Yup if units had any impact we would have better balanced game and not these patch work quirks and crap...

[JaxRiot]

Kin3ticX, on 12 January 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

I think you are overestimating how much unit to dev communication is going on regarding CW. AFAIK its practically nonexistent. Not sure how you think units arnt letting something happen.

Fair enough. I can see how that can be viewed as such. I will edit it to "Oppose it "

Edited by JaxRiot, 12 January 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Sandpit, on 11 January 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

It's strange how even though they're making these ridiculous claims of "but think of the new players" the ones we see complaining about this are old players.
Interesting dynamic if you ask me.

TLDR: domo arigato mister roboto


I remember Age Of Conan pvp match. They were hard to start because of low pop(just like MWO). People could and would form groups and then advertise in chat to queue for some pvp. I was always a twink decked out in the best gear at every low level 19-39-59 but i also always was on the pug side. Invariably, new people would queue to try pvp for the first time and they would just get farmed at the spawn while the obj was left untouch for the duration of the match(i hear same critism for CW). It didnt take more than 2 match and you wouldnt be able to start another pvp match for hours. CW has been A Ghost Town since implemented and MWO as a whole has been hurting for more players for ever. Now with Steam players it's going to be better unless we keep losing them.

Im seeing a trend here and this "Old Player" is one of those that "but think of the new players", ill be happy if proven wrong next year but in the mean time ill voice my disagreement on the "let things settle" because it didnt work in the past for MWO or the other games i was in.

Me, i believe CW is serious/no funsies here/only the best mech/GameFaceOn mode. New players shouldnt be feeded in unless they are part of a big group that will teach and lead them or can field their own upgraded mech. Ive spectated players in Steam Broadcast and they certainly are trying(with mixed result entirely based on the other team drop deck) and they seemed less inclined to b!tch than the old players(maybe because they expect it being new). I also read Steam forum and there should be some kind of warning when they click the alluring "Faction Play" as to what they are going to be facing for the next 40+ minutes. 40+ minutes is a long time when it's ****** and you don't know why because you are today new to the game. Ive seen players repeatedly try to customize a trial mech and then go randomly chose a faction, aimlessly click on the mech deck and queue for CW. It's wrong for them and for everyone else to let them blindly do something that likely will not be fun.

OFC It's wrong to think that new players can't fend for themselves or understand what is going or are too dumb to fix it by either going to solo (or another game). And maybe im being condescending when i say a better environment should be created because after all WE DID IT YEARS AGO WITH MUCH WORSE CONDITIONS SO WHY NOT THEM? Well the game has continually been hurting and bleeding players too and im not bitching because im happy about that obviously. MWO in general is much about the mech, the gear and knowledge. CW exacerbate that with: coordination, focus and time spent waiting and therefore is the least friendly place to learn to play unless you are part of a big group.

Don't forget CW was a ghost town. It's cool that it has new players in but Don't kill it again because we need new players.

If you are new and read this and felt attacked or diminished because you are not good at the game and feel like im trying to segregate like you as if you are not worthy of playing with me and think i should just shutup leave you alone do you own things... GOOD, you have what it takes to survive in MWO. We need more dedicated and strong people like you. A strong will to get better and learn the game versus ridiculous odds is the only way i know to do your time and succeeded in MWO because the proverbial skills will not save your *** early on. Whatever happens just remember this: giant robots with lasers/missiles/balistic > everything else. AND make your voice heard on the forum if you are happy with the game and disagree with the negativity people are bringing up.

Edited by DAYLEET, 12 January 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[pwnface]

Aelos03, on 12 January 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

So? you are saying like that can't be fixed.

Please explain how you are going to fix the ability to sync drop on a planet without removing the player choice of what planet to attack or defend. If I solo queue up on a planet with 8 friends at the exact same time, there is an incredibly high chance we'll all be on the same team in the same match. How do you get around this?

Removing player choice of where to attack/defend is not an option. It would defeat the entire purpose of CW and effectively turn it into "Quick Match" with a different map/mode.

Edited by pwnface, 12 January 2016 - 11:51 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

CW was always meant for people to group up and those who are complaining the most are those who obviously have no intention to group up. Even another play mode isn't enough to get these people into TS and into groups. Sure, CW isn't a huge amount of the playerbase, but this will change when there is a point. WE all see how the amount of players bulges for a simple event with stockings. Different rewards and a reason to fight for planets would bring people.

[Wildstreak]

JaxRiot, on 12 January 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

there are the rumors of Unit caps

Unit caps are DOA, even I can see how to get around it.

[CDLord HHGD]

Wildstreak, on 13 January 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

Unit caps are DOA, even I can see how to get around it.

Well congrats on discovering an exploit, but that doesn't mean they are DOA. We haven't heard much but that doesn't mean they can't spring up on us in a patch. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Adamski]

Unit caps are a solution looking for a problem.

The problem isn't that units are getting too big, its that there is no reason for players NOT to group up into big units.

If PGI wants to big units to break apart and spread out, they need to provide incentives and penalties for players who all glom into a single faction.

[CDLord HHGD]

Adamski, on 13 January 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Unit caps are a solution looking for a problem.

The problem isn't that units are getting too big, its that there is no reason for players NOT to group up into big units.

If PGI wants to big units to break apart and spread out, they need to provide incentives and penalties for players who all glom into a single faction.

I did a (IMHO) nice write-up on this here.

[Adamski]

That is a quaint idea, but really does nothing to solve the root issue, that as the large Merc units move around the factions, the balance and map follows with them.

Some of the large units already avoid conflict with their rivals, whether this is intentional or simply due to units always selecting ATTACK in order to tag planets with their unit tag is a pointless distinction.

ie: Under your proposal, a very large unit could simply split up into multiple sub units called TROLL1 - TROLL27, and all synch their contracts by moving at the same time. There would be no penalty to doing so, and no disincentive.

A better system looks at the number of pilots dropping for a faction each day in CW, and grants bonuses / penalties according to participation and population. So the most active faction receives the lowest payouts of CBills / XP / LP, and the least active faction receives a huge boost to their payouts.

This makes it so a unit WANTS to split up and spread out, so that active players are all over the map, because if they all congregate in one faction, they start penalizing themselves.

[Sandpit]

DAYLEET, on 12 January 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

If you are new and read this and felt attacked or diminished because you are not good at the game and feel like im trying to segregate like you as if you are not worthy of playing with me and think i should just shutup leave you alone do you own things... GOOD, you have what it takes to survive in MWO. We need more dedicated and strong people like you. A strong will to get better and learn the game versus ridiculous odds is the only way i know to do your time and succeeded in MWO because the proverbial skills will not save your *** early on. Whatever happens just remember this: giant robots with lasers/missiles/balistic > everything else. AND make your voice heard on the forum if you are happy with the game and disagree with the negativity people are bringing up.

First, I never do, never have, and never will make blanket statements regarding a portion of the population. I didn't say "every", "all", "most", "majority" etc.
I'm pointing out several of the ones running around on the forums trying to push their own agenda and fear mongering and using new players as their altruistic shields when they really have nothing but contempt for them. I can show you specific examples if you like, but I don't feel there's any need to honestly as I wasn't referring to you specifically.

Just like when people try to pain players who join units, play in groups, etc. as some evil boogeyman who does nothing but club seals because it garners them support from people who don't know any better due to that kind of silly propaganda and others who are also using new players as shields and such so they can just try to gain support for their specific idea, not for the betterment of MWO, or NPE, or CW, simply because they specifically would enjoy that idea no matter how much it might damage other areas of the game.

I'm sick of it personally and it's high time those types of players in this community started getting called out on it when they do it. That's the true toxicity in our community. It spreads misinformation to new players, causes strawman scapegoats which detract from constructive discussion, and just fosters this "us vs. them" mentality.

Adamski, on 13 January 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

That is a quaint idea, but really does nothing to solve the root issue, that as the large Merc units move around the factions, the balance and map follows with them. Some of the large units already avoid conflict with their rivals,

Know a simple fix for that?
Lock players into a choice for that season of CW.
IS or Clan
one or the other. You can switch factions within that saide, but no jumping from IS to clan or vice versa during that season of CW.
Problem completely solved.
Easily
Without any major reworking of any system.

cdlord, on 13 January 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

I did a (IMHO) nice write-up on this here.

I think my suggestion is better.
Yours also doesn't solve the issue really. All the bigger units will do is break down into smaller groups.
The really big units have no issue doling out hundreds of million cbills either.

[CDLord HHGD]

Sandpit, on 13 January 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

First, I never do, never have, and never will make blanket statements regarding a portion of the population. I didn't say "every", "all", "most", "majority" etc.
I'm pointing out several of the ones running around on the forums trying to push their own agenda and fear mongering and using new players as their altruistic shields when they really have nothing but contempt for them. I can show you specific examples if you like, but I don't feel there's any need to honestly as I wasn't referring to you specifically.

Just like when people try to pain players who join units, play in groups, etc. as some evil boogeyman who does nothing but club seals because it garners them support from people who don't know any better due to that kind of silly propaganda and others who are also using new players as shields and such so they can just try to gain support for their specific idea, not for the betterment of MWO, or NPE, or CW, simply because they specifically would enjoy that idea no matter how much it might damage other areas of the game.

I'm sick of it personally and it's high time those types of players in this community started getting called out on it when they do it. That's the true toxicity in our community. It spreads misinformation to new players, causes strawman scapegoats which detract from constructive discussion, and just fosters this "us vs. them" mentality.


Know a simple fix for that?
Lock players into a choice for that season of CW.
IS or Clan
one or the other. You can switch factions within that saide, but no jumping from IS to clan or vice versa during that season of CW.
Problem completely solved.
Easily
Without any major reworking of any system.


I think my suggestion is better.
Yours also doesn't solve the issue really. All the bigger units will do is break down into smaller groups.
The really big units have no issue doling out hundreds of million cbills either.

I didn't say it was a solution. I assumed PGI is gonna do it regardless so figured I'd offer up a lore friendly way to do it.

[Sandpit]

cdlord, on 13 January 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

I didn't say it was a solution. I assumed PGI is gonna do it regardless so figured I'd offer up a lore friendly way to do it.

If they do they're making a huge mistake for the reasons I listed as well as just pissing off players while solving nothing.

Cap it at whatever number you want. Doesn't stop them from creating sub units and still belonging to the same faction with the same coordination. Solves zero issues, pisses of players how are, once again, in smaller units.

That's the real issue. It solves nothing and does nothing but put even more roadblocks in front of smaller units.

If they go down this path expect the group queue and unit memberships to dwindle
again
just like that last time they started putting severe limitations on being able to drop in a group or unit.

[CDLord HHGD]

Sandpit, on 13 January 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

If they do they're making a huge mistake for the reasons I listed as well as just pissing off players while solving nothing.

Cap it at whatever number you want. Doesn't stop them from creating sub units and still belonging to the same faction with the same coordination. Solves zero issues, pisses of players how are, once again, in smaller units.

That's the real issue. It solves nothing and does nothing but put even more roadblocks in front of smaller units.

If they go down this path expect the group queue and unit memberships to dwindle
again
just like that last time they started putting severe limitations on being able to drop in a group or unit.

I think you might have just defined their MO they have from time to time. I feel bad saying that because they've been on a good streak, but history is history.

[Almond Brown]

pwnface, on 12 January 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

Please explain how you are going to fix the ability to sync drop on a planet without removing the player choice of what planet to attack or defend. If I solo queue up on a planet with 8 friends at the exact same time, there is an incredibly high chance we'll all be on the same team in the same match. How do you get around this?

Removing player choice of where to attack/defend is not an option. It would defeat the entire purpose of CW and effectively turn it into "Quick Match" with a different map/mode.

So, if the queues did get Split at some point, that is what you and your 8 friends would do in order to be able to continue Farming Newbs in the new Pug CW queue? Surely not and we would assume other Team would not do that either. So are we making up "issues" that do not yet exist for CW for any particular reason...?

[Sandpit]

cdlord, on 13 January 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

I think you might have just defined their MO they have from time to time. I feel bad saying that because they've been on a good streak, but history is history.

Well everyone is currently in a tizzy because of the "group queue" seen for Phase 3 information. We just have zero information to go on at this point, but I really and truly hope PGI learned their lessons regarding this. It wasn't a coincedental that the population and game started getting really stagnant the last time they started putting hard caps on units, groups, etc.

I really hope they learned from that because that's one thing I don't think MWO can survive again. They'll lose any optimism and goodwill they've built up with a good chunk of the community if they handle this wrong and they will leave just like they did last time.