93 replies to this topic

[Dagorlad13]

GreyNovember, on 02 January 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

60 FPS is low performance?

If your system can average 60fps in MWO, that is good, if MWO only peaks at 60fps, then that is bad. Also remember that enabling VSYNC will sync your fps with your monitor's maximum refresh rate and I do believe that most monitors are still 60Hz max (could be wrong, haven't bought a monitor in years).

[M T]

octopec, on 03 January 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

184 fps on river city? So you're playing on the new Google quantum mainframe...

So how did you test? Play a match, reboot PC / toggle HPET, play another match and draw your conclusions? Create a proper testing environment to maximize both CPU and GPU usage and diminish any changing variables is usually the best way to test the, or any effectiveness on tweaks like this.

Side effect is high fps

Edited by MTs Cavia Porcellus, 03 January 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[Mighty Wings]

Just tried this out, seems like I got a slightly better average FPS. More importantly, game didn't seem to drop below 50 FPS as often.

Thanks for the heads up OP.

[oO JimPansen Oo]

Just tried the tool (thx wintersdark) on an older machine (xeon e5450 @ 4GHz) with Win7 Pro. No test results but feels smoother. Less fps fluctuation and feels like higher average but no max increasement.

Thx octopec

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

GreyNovember, on 02 January 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

60 FPS is low performance?

ya, Id wish for 60 instead of the 30-40 I get lol

and thats with a quad core 4 gig cpu 8 gb ripjaws ram and a GTX 760

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 03 January 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 03 January 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

ya, Id wish for 60 instead of the 30-40 I get lol

and thats with a quad core 4 gig cpu 8 gb ripjaws ram and a GTX 760

LOL, did you find the secret setting where CryEngine is doing realistic Maxwell's Equations simulation of every laser beam?

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 03 January 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

fogsworth, on 02 January 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

I'll try it out.

Seems the difference is:

Default timer:

Windows: Are you done?
Windows: Are you done?
Windows: Are you done?
Timer: Yes

HPET:
Windows: Tell me when you're done.
...
Timer: I'm done.

So, besides the increase in timer resolution, it could have an effect if MWO is actually using windows timer functions instead of reading the clock over and over.

edit: some tests

Windows 7 Pro-64 bit / i5-4760k@4ghz / gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD3H

Measured boot time with BootRacer. HPET seems to be better for me.

no hpet:
32.645s
31.077
34.393 // start menu opened for some reason
31.177

hpet:
28.432
32.129
26.045
29.713

Spun in a circle in tutorial. Doesn't seem like much effect. I'll leave HPET on for the boot time increase for now.

no hpet:
55-78 fps

hpet:
56-79 fps
54-79 fps

It doesn't impact my FPS at all, but *may* make it smoother at the low end, but to be honest it's not noticable enough for me to be certain it's actually different. Just not sure.


The post above is pretty much accurate though about how it works. The issue with the HPET is in the failure cases.

In the default timer paradigm, Window's asks the timer if it's done. Windows may ask late, but will still get an answer. This can result in a bit of stutter, because it may find out a timer has elapsed late. With the default timer, this is fairly common but short, resulting in microstutter and similar issues.

For the HPET, that's not an issue. What CAN happen, though, is that the event notification is missed by a system that's too tapped out. In that case, it just goes completely missed, and because the HPET is actually just a counter that continuously increments till it wraps back to zero (probably a 32bit integer) is that the program is notified the second time around. This results is a greatly delayed notification ("greatly delayed" in ghz clock speed microprocessor terms). If that never happens for you, AND you have microstutter from the normal timer, then this is an improvement. Also, with Windows not checking the timer constantly, you've got less cpu load. MWO is CPU dependant, so if you're CPU capped, this could also result in FPS gain as a result.

I suspect this is why I see no FPS gain, as with a i5 4690 at 4.2ghz, I'm not CPU bottlenecked. More CPU performance doesn't impact my game.

But, it could also result in more severe stutter issues because of the "long" delay on a missed timer event.

Very system dependent.

IronClaws, on 03 January 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

If your system can average 60fps in MWO, that is good, if MWO only peaks at 60fps, then that is bad. Also remember that enabling VSYNC will sync your fps with your monitor's maximum refresh rate and I do believe that most monitors are still 60Hz max (could be wrong, haven't bought a monitor in years).

Most regular monitors are. You can get 120hz and 144hz monitors these days too, but if your not sure what your monitors refresh rate is, it's 60hz. Generally you just want a higher refresh rate to run 3D (as you need to display twice as many frames).

[Dagorlad13]

Wintersdark, on 03 January 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

It doesn't impact my FPS at all, but *may* make it smoother at the low end, but to be honest it's not noticable enough for me to be certain it's actually different. Just not sure.


The post above is pretty much accurate though about how it works. The issue with the HPET is in the failure cases.

In the default timer paradigm, Window's asks the timer if it's done. Windows may ask late, but will still get an answer. This can result in a bit of stutter, because it may find out a timer has elapsed late. With the default timer, this is fairly common but short, resulting in microstutter and similar issues.

For the HPET, that's not an issue. What CAN happen, though, is that the event notification is missed by a system that's too tapped out. In that case, it just goes completely missed, and because the HPET is actually just a counter that continuously increments till it wraps back to zero (probably a 32bit integer) is that the program is notified the second time around. This results is a greatly delayed notification ("greatly delayed" in ghz clock speed microprocessor terms). If that never happens for you, AND you have microstutter from the normal timer, then this is an improvement. Also, with Windows not checking the timer constantly, you've got less cpu load. MWO is CPU dependant, so if you're CPU capped, this could also result in FPS gain as a result.

I suspect this is why I see no FPS gain, as with a i5 4690 at 4.2ghz, I'm not CPU bottlenecked. More CPU performance doesn't impact my game.

But, it could also result in more severe stutter issues because of the "long" delay on a missed timer event.

Very system dependent.

Yeah, I have HPET enabled in my BIOS, but Window 10 won't let me toggle it on even though I am logged in as Admin, so I don't know if it is enabled in Windows or not.

[Wintersdark]

IronClaws, on 03 January 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

Yeah, I have HPET enabled in my BIOS, but Window 10 won't let me toggle it on even though I am logged in as Admin, so I don't know if it is enabled in Windows or not.

Its not enough to be an administrator, you have to open an elevated command prompt. But the windows key, type cmd, right click the command prompt and chose open command prompt as administrator. Then you can issue the command to enable HPET. If you just open a command pro.pt and type that (even being an admin) it won't work.

[JigglyMoobs]

Is there a way to check via command prompt what the current setting is in Windows?

[Goose]

http://forums.guru3d...3&postcount=826

[Dagorlad13]

Wintersdark, on 03 January 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

Its not enough to be an administrator, you have to open an elevated command prompt. But the windows key, type cmd, right click the command prompt and chose open command prompt as administrator. Then you can issue the command to enable HPET. If you just open a command pro.pt and type that (even being an admin) it won't work.

Yep, did the trick, I guess Win 10 just had tighter security than 7.

[itisasitis]

@Porcellus, you're absolutely right. I just never get that kind of fps on that map.

@Buddah, sounds like something is seriously wrong. Did you test this HPET tweaking?

@Goose, in your link there was another program linked (PC Clock Timing), and when I run it I get a similar result as the OP in that post with regard to one thing: the "QueryPerformanceCounter" value is much higher with HPET on. So that's seems like the unequivocal downside to HPET on. Whatever that means

Edited by octopec, 04 January 2016 - 01:50 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Have to bump this.

I enabled it in Bios, Asus board AMD 6350, win 7 64

Holy ****

I was seeing 50-60 fps as highs, with dips down to 30fps.

With it enabled I just dropped on mining and saw 100+ fps as highs and dips down to 50s. I don't think I had ever seen 110fps in MWO on this rig before now.

G G

Edit: wintimertester still shows frequency at 3.8 before and after enabling it in bios. So that didn't seem to change, but MWO fps seems to be affected

Edited by Ghogiel, 04 January 2016 - 06:33 AM.

[itisasitis]

That AWESOME Ghogiel! Happy hunting

Crazy that a thread like this is not stickied somewhere, considering how many seem to benefit from this. Forum admins... ?

Edited by octopec, 04 January 2016 - 06:24 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Well I don't even know why it wouldn't be enabled by default on my bios, as it seems mobos that don't have the option apparently have it on by default. I think it's on in windows, but havent checked. and it's kinda odd it seems to give me about 10fps on my base line min even though the wintimertester doesn't appear to say I am getting any higher frequency. Maybe it's off in my windows as well.

I'll have to poke around at this stuff later.

Edited by Ghogiel, 04 January 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[itisasitis]

OK so the frequency timer thing obviously doesn't matter for you. I'm not going to claim I understand the timer thing... The most important part is that you're running the game more smoothly!

[Merit Lef]

I'll have to give this a shot...Cant wait to get home and try this out.

[itisasitis]

Shameless bump...

[1Grimbane]

GreyNovember, on 02 January 2016 - 02:23 AM, said:

60 FPS is low performance?

lol wow man i am running and a no-**** 16-21fps have had it once go up to 28fps ..... am running mwo on a sh!tty toshiba laptop though with gawd-awful hd4000 graphics