238 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

Hellcat420, on 08 January 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

How do you know the light mech was just hiding and not setting an ambush, which is the only chance he would have had to kill you?

He was hiding for 8 minutes. Long enough to set an ambush?

Knaven86, on 08 January 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

If you had said that you went out to try to find him or that you went to the other guys base, either way would be an attempt to win, you'd be okay. But you stayed in the environment where you felt you had the advantage... the same thing he was doing. You are just as much at fault. You easily could have come out of your base and provoked an engagement, but you just camped and cried and chose not to engage him.

I actually tried to chaise him towards higher base (it was at River City) - but he just ran away and I lost him. Further movement was pointless.

You should really realize, that slower 'Mechs are not obligated to chaise faster ones. It's faster 'Mechs' duty - to engage with enemies.

Also. You are not authorized to draw the lines here. You are not authorized to determine the difference between hiding and "executing some super smart tactic". The situation is clean and simple - he lost, he refused to admit it - he knew, where am I, it was his duty to engage with me - he went hiding instead and ran out the clock - he non-participated, he was reported.

Edited by MrMadguy, 08 January 2016 - 09:52 AM.

[Hellcat420]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

He was hiding for 8 minutes. Long enough to set an ambush?

I actually tried to chaise him towards higher base (it was at River City) - but he just ran away and I lost him. Further movement was pointless.

You should really realize, that slower 'Mechs are not obligated to chaise faster ones. It's faster 'Mechs' duty - to engage with enemies.

Fast mechs are not obligated to anything more than any other mechs is obligated to do. In fact if anything you were the one obligated to engage the enemy since you were in the tank mech and he was in the jeep mech.

Edited by Hellcat420, 08 January 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[Eglar]

1Grimbane, on 08 January 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

TOC..... helping you play the game the way Pgi wants you to play it. really I understand 90% of the TOC and COC but there is a very controlling aspect to ten % of it... very heavy handed and over reaching

Truth to be told There is no TOC.
While the Terms of Service (TOS) or in this case Terms of Use from PGI handles the legal aspects provider->customer relations, the Code of Conduct (COC) deals with behavior issues. I would assume that OP refers to the COC here.

Both "agreements" state that PGI reserves the right to act upon violations. So even if it was (which I personally do not think) a violation there is no need for PGI to act immidiately upon it.

[MrMadguy]

Hellcat420, on 08 January 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

Fast mechs are not obligated to anything more than any other mechs is obligated to do. In fact if anything you were the one obligated to engage the enemy since you were in the tank mech and he was in the jeep mech.

Sorry, but it's obvious game mechanic. Faster 'Mech has speed advantage and can "avoid engagement with enemy 'Mechs" - slower can't. Not knowing the rules doesn't exempt from liability. If you don't know, that it's your duty to engage with enemies - it's your problem.

[Malagant]

adamts01, on 07 January 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:

Hiding to protect your kdr, while you have weapons, and hiding win not net you a win through points is against the Terms. Everyone on the forums knows this, but most in game do not. This should be one of those little messages during the loading screen. Or possibly an automatically generated message if you get too many AFK reports. Your team sucked, get over it and move on.

I'm really tired of being told how I HAVE to play the game...really tired.

[Catra Lanis]

I've never reported someone for running or hiding, what do I care? It's my job to kill him, he or she doesn't owe me anything. Only time I report is if they have really ****** names or for teamkilling (intentional).

Edited by Catra Lanis, 08 January 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[Baelfire]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

he lost, he refused to admit it - he knew, where am I, it was his duty to engage with me - he went hiding instead and ran out the clock - he non-participated, he was reported.

You can only admit a loss if you will actually losing the game once the time runs out. However, in the end the game was a tie, there was no loss to admit, so your argumentation is flawed. Things would have been different if your team had still 2+ Mechs and the game mode would have been skirmish. Because in this case your team would have won and he would only wasted your teams time. But as long as a tie is better than a loss he did the right thing for him and his team.

Usually discussions about "last man standing" or "hiding" have an even amount of people on both sides. You may notice that this is not the case this time as even people who are against hiding are telling you that you are wrong. If i were you, i would think about the reasons why this the case. But thats just me.

Edited by Baelfire, 08 January 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Hellcat420]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Sorry, but it's obvious game mechanic. Faster 'Mech has speed advantage and can "avoid engagement with enemy 'Mechs" - slower can't. Not knowing the rules doesn't exempt from liability. If you don't know, that it's your duty to engage with enemies - it's your problem.

First off there is no such rule, second light mechs role is scouting, not brawling with assault mechs. You blew the match by shooting his arms trying to pad your numbers instead of taking off one of his legs to negate his speed advantage. What's worse, is that once you blew it trying to be greedy, you stood at your base pouting and trying to blame the other guy for your screw up instead of trying to win.

Edited by Hellcat420, 08 January 2016 - 10:28 AM.

[Eglar]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

Sorry, but it's obvious game mechanic. Faster 'Mech has speed advantage and can "avoid engagement with enemy 'Mechs" - slower can't. Not knowing the rules doesn't exempt from liability. If you don't know, that it's your duty to engage with enemies - it's your problem.

Stop making up rules. In fact the Code of Conduct explicitly states that what the light pilot did (wether he was shutting down or not) is within the boundaries of the ruleset:

Quote

Shutting Down your ‘Mech or avoiding engagements with the enemy, and when doing so might be considered non-participation
All pilots have access to a Shutdown command for their ‘Mechs, mapped by default to the ‘P’ key and listed as ‘Toggle Power’ in the keyboard menu.
The primary benefit to shutting down your ‘Mech is that it will no longer appear on enemy radar. In the deciding moments of a close match with few ‘Mechs left standing on the battlefield, effective use of the shutdown mechanic and/or evasion tactics has the potential to provide you with the following benefits:

• Breaking a target lock
  
• Appearing ‘heat neutral’ on maps where Thermal Vision might commonly be used
  
• Presenting on opportunity for staging an ambush
  
• Evading detection long enough to secure a win through Conquest points
  
• Evading detection long enough to secure a timer expiration win when you have superior numbers, in circumstances where you may be too critically damaged to otherwise risk a direct engagement with the enemy

The above situations are considered to be within the scope of what the shutdown mechanic or evasion tactics are intended to be used for.

At the same time the COC further says that evasion/shutdown bahavior might be evaluated and act upon.

[Sjorpha]

I think the obligation is to try and play towards the best reasonably plausible outcome, in this case a tie.

Since a tie is a better outcome than a loss, and since there was no plausible way to kill the assault mech or cap the base, it can't be considered a CoC violation to play for a tie.

Suiciding is a CoC violation as well, so if you are running deliberately into a fight you cannot win, in this case running the almost stripped light into the assault, then that would be a CoC violation and especially so if it would turn a possible tie into a loss.

Now IMO the fact that you can do things in the game which are against the rules is in itself a design flaw, if it's doable it should also be allowed the way I see it. Why can you suicide if suicide is "against the rules"?

Makes no sense really. In computer games, since you have absolute control over the possible actions, the rules and game mechanics should be identical.

[MrMadguy]

Hellcat420, on 08 January 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

First off there is no such rule, second light mechs role is scouting, not brawling with assault mechs. You blew the match by shooting his arms trying to pad your numbers instead of taking off one of his legs to negate his speed advantage. What's worse, is that once you blew it trying to be greedy, you stood at your base pouting and trying to blame the other guy for your screw up instead of trying to win.

So let's turn game into hide-n-seek then. Just because we can. If we are not obligated to actually play the game, then let's just hide around the map all together. Yeah?

I blown his arms only because he was hiding behind the base for about 2 minutes, trying to blow my ST out. He ran away only when he realized, that his hitboxes aren't broken enough against my 2xGauss. That's why I hated Rogues in Wow - for their ability to determine, whether they should lose or not, while other classes don't have such an ability. When they are winning - then everything is fine, L2P noob. But as soon, as they're starting to lose - POOF, vanish. May be in Wow it was a class feature, but in MWO - it's just an unfair advantage. That's why rules are here. And rules don't state, whether they are applicable to Skirmish only or not. That means, they're applicable to Assault too. Deal with it.

P. S. The only thing, I'm waiting for - is for "Hiding" to be implemented in "Non-participation" report menu. Now I have to use "AFK" instead, which isn't clear enough.

[adamts01]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

This new rules actually aren't about hiding or non-participation (not liking map/afking/DCing/suiciding cases are obvious - those was covered by old version of rules) - they are purely about admitting the loss. Some players lose, but refuse to admit this loss. This rules say: "If you have lost - you have to admit this loss, not to pointlessly drag out the match".

P. S. He was hiding from me - not I from him. Don't try to manipulate the facts.

He didn't lose though, it was a tie. A tie is better than a loss, how can you not grasp that?

[Yosharian]

Warblood, on 07 January 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

IMHO.. dont really care as long as they dont do it in skirmish. In conquest it could net them a win and in assault ill just cap then an win. so yea just dont do it in skirmish.

Just because it's conquest doesn't mean afk-ing is a legit tactic, not unless you're at least even on points score or have a better capping team left than your opponent.

Some dude bro afking when its 11-0 and the cap score is 500-200 'oh but its conquest so its ok' no its really not.

[Ghogiel]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

So let's turn game into hide-n-seek then. Just because we can. If we are not obligated to actually play the game, then let's just hide around the map all together. Yeah?

I blown his arms only because he was hiding behind the base for about 2 minutes, trying to blow my ST out. He ran away only when he realized, that his hitboxes aren't broken enough against my 2xGauss. That's why I hated Rogues in Wow - for their ability to determine, whether they should lose or not, while other classes don't have such an ability. When they are winning - then everything is fine, L2P noob. But as soon, as they're starting to lose - POOF, vanish. May be in Wow it was a class feature, but in MWO - it's just an unfair advantage. That's why rules are here. And rules don't state, whether they are applicable to Skirmish only or not. That means, they're applicable to Assault too. Deal with it.

P. S. The only thing, I'm waiting for - is for "Hiding" to be implemented in "Non-participation" report menu. Now I have to use "AFK" instead, which isn't clear enough.

Then people can report you for hiding in your base trying to save your W/L stats.

[Quick n Fast]

MrMadguy, on 08 January 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

If you don't know, that it's your duty to engage with enemies

Says the guy show sat on his base... lol

[MrMadguy]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 08 January 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

Says the guy show sat on his base... lol

You - faster pilots. Not just "you".

I really miss old sweet times, when there was no tonnage limitation rule. Thats was true MechWarrior - not this crap, we have now.

[Metus regem]

Don't really care... when I start a match, I agree to a possible 15 minuet window that my mech is in use, should I die, and don't feel like watching the rest of the match, I go and pick a different mech for another game.

[wanderer]

Quote

he knew, where am I, it was his duty to engage with me

He has no duty to engage with you whatsoever in the place you chose and you sat in your base expecting the exact thing you demanded from the Firestarter.

So, tell me. Was it your duty to engage HIM in a spot he chose? You clearly did not, after all.

In fact, thanks to this thread he's secured a tie for his team and a personal win by making you into a forum-whining baby.

GGnotevenclose.

[Eglar]

adamts01, on 08 January 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

He didn't lose though, it was a tie. A tie is better than a loss, how can you not grasp that?

Though i am not refering to OP's case, I remember pgi at some point saying that they intentionally used the phrase "contributing towards victory" and not "avoiding a loss" in their CoC which makes a Tie a fairly disputable outcome. I don't know if this has been changed but you also used to recieve less income for a Tie (15k C-Bills) compared to a Loss (20k C-Bills),

In a precedent, PGI's MWO First Engagement Tournament, a certain Team made the call to Camp inside a Cave on the old Forest Colony Map with AC20 Jagermechs for the entire game duration while the other team didn't want to commit suicide by going there. (Details here)
At this point, PGI made the call to change the game mode from Skirmish to Assault in order to prevent a TIE by "Cavecamping" and enforcing a Win-Loss outcome.

[Leone]

Okay, I'm not sure if they changed this, but last I checked, you go no monies on a tie and some monies on a loss, making a tie actually inferior to losing. Running out the clock negatively impacts your earning.

~Leone.