116 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

MrJeffers, on 10 January 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

Incentives don't remove the logistics issues of trying to organize two 12 man teams for hours at a time. If you had ever even tried this you would quit spouting this nonsense.

I have. Its not that hard. Not any worse than organizing a league match. Try it and see. Just once.

I beginning to think you guys just want to farm newbies for easy rewards, since you shout down EVERY suggestion that might prevent that, and refuse to come up with some on your own. You're smart enough and creative enough to create meta decks and perfect CW tactics, but you cant come up with a way to seek out units that will give you a challenge? Please.

You are competitve and think CW is hardcore? Show me the threads where you complain to PGI about how boring it is for you to farm newbies. Show me the threads where you all are brainstorming ways to make it easier to fight each other instead of newbies. If you were half as competitive as you claim, Russ's twitter feed would be spammed with complaints about "the new easy mode" and suggestions on how to fix it.

But we won't see any of that. Because you are satisfied with the way things are now. "We don't really want to farm newbies for easy rewards but the devs are making us, oh well. <smirk> Too bad so sad"

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 10 January 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[JaxRiot]

Deathlike, on 09 January 2016 - 11:13 PM, said:

The problem with blaming units is that you assume units have a choice at picking their opponents (it's only the faction that they can ultimately pick). They clearly do not choose who they are dropping against (premade or not)... and neither do the solo players.

You know what choice solo players have? They can actually pick (to a degree) who their teammates are (like ones from a unit). Better yet, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE IN A UNIT TO DO THIS.

That's the core failure in your argument.

But they kind of can.

Its already been stated many times that Pugs hardly ever initiate an attack on a planet because of how the ques work. So if a Unit initiates an attack on a planet, the chances of them getting Pug opposition is high.

Also, if a Unit sees a planet suddenly being attacked, they know that chances are its another Unit attacking so all they have to do to avoid that Unit (if they so choose) is attack a different planet and chances are they will get Pug opposition instead.

People have known how to play the planet reading game for a while now but pretend that it is absolutely impossible to avoid other Units because they cant actually see who is in que.

Also, how is it that a solo/pug player able to choose their team? A pug is a Pick Up Group. Random people. If they were forming groups before the battle begins, then they wouldnt be a Pug, would they? Then it would be a Pre-Made, no?

[Ted Wayz]

5/10

Because half of your points have the appearance of plausibility. The rest are just your own fabrications of misconceptions.

But again, it is not the players responsibility to make CW accessible to all, it is PGIs. There is a reason why only a small percentage of people play CW. That reason is that CW is garbage.

[Deathlike]

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

I don't believe that. I think if those units were as hypercompetitive as you claim, they would find a way to organize drops against each other. And all I've heard are excuses as to why it can't be done.

I never said ANYTHING about being hypercompetitive.

I said that you have literally ZERO idea who your opponents are until you actually drop.

Once you stop assuming you can guess who your opponents are, then you might have a conversation.

Quote

I get that it would be inconvenient, but then I remember all the times certain units have inconvenienced themselves to game the system to their benefit. And since it wouldn't be beneficial to them (reward-wise) to do it, they aren't even trying to seek each other out.

I'll bet you that if PGI incentivized payouts (double cbills and LP) for unit vs unit drops, allofasudden you guys would discover creative and interesting ways to set up battles on planets against each other.

Payouts is one problem on its own... the problem is that setting up battles ASSUMES both sides have controls over who they choose to drop against.

Even in the agreed attempt to play against each other, you actually have less control over the queues. It only works when BOTH factions have players that don't queue (if you've attempted sync dropping, you'd have a clue how the queues work).

It only takes a randomly growing queue to have a "sync drop" ruined by others.

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

I have. Its not that hard. Not any worse than organizing a league match. Try it and see. Just once.

I beginning to think you guys just want to farm newbies for easy rewards, since you shout down EVERY suggestion that might prevent that, and refuse to come up with some on your own. You're smart enough and creative enough to create meta decks and perfect CW tactics, but you cant come up with a way to seek out units that will give you a challenge? Please.

You are competitve and think CW is hardcore? Show me the threads where you complain to PGI about how boring it is for you to farm newbies. Show me the threads where you all are brainstorming ways to make it easier to fight each other instead of newbies. If you were half as competitive as you claim, Russ's twitter feed would be spammed with complaints about "the new easy mode" and suggestions on how to fix it.

But we won't see any of that. Because you are satisfied with the way things are now. "We don't really want to farm newbies for easy rewards but the devs are making us, oh well. <smirk> Too bad so sad"

Dude, have you ever tried to CONSTRUCT a 12-man? It is harder than you think. I don't know whether you are in a unit or not, but having seen the construction of them.. they are pretty hard to do.

It's not just gathering people together... you also have to spend time setting up dropdecks.

The whole point of complaining to PGI is that we'd like new players to NOT JUMP IN IMMEDIATELY, GET BETTER, THEN COME AND GET EDUCATED ABOUT CW.

This has always been repeated to PGI ad nauseum. The problem is that some people that are just as whiny want MM to "help them out" when that isn't a real solution to the problem.

JaxRiot, on 10 January 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

But they kind of can.

Its already been stated many times that Pugs hardly ever initiate an attack on a planet because of how the ques work. So if a Unit initiates an attack on a planet, the chances of them getting Pug opposition is high.

Also, if a Unit sees a planet suddenly being attacked, they know that chances are its another Unit attacking so all they have to do to avoid that Unit (if they so choose) is attack a different planet and chances are they will get Pug opposition instead.

People have known how to play the planet reading game for a while now but pretend that it is absolutely impossible to avoid other Units because they cant actually see who is in que.

Also, how is it that a solo/pug player able to choose their team? A pug is a Pick Up Group. Random people. If they were forming groups before the battle begins, then they wouldnt be a Pug, would they? Then it would be a Pre-Made, no?

Again, that's faulty logic, and you're trying too hard to make sense.

If there's a 11-players in the queue, it only takes a 12-man to swoop in to get in front of them.

If there's a 12-man taking too effing long to set up, the 11 players already in queue are more likely to get that +1 to start their match.

This is before you have ANY idea what the opfor did... and you can't really assume unless you watch the queues exclusively AND NOT ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN CW.


Some of us actually participate in CW and see what actually goes down instead of spending time on total conjecture w/o actually discussing reality.

That's why it is very hard to take your assertion seriously.

[JaxRiot]

Deathlike, on 10 January 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Again, that's faulty logic, and you're trying too hard to make sense.

If there's a 11-players in the queue, it only takes a 12-man to swoop in to get in front of them.

If there's a 12-man taking too effing long to set up, the 11 players already in queue are more likely to get that +1 to start their match.

This is before you have ANY idea what the opfor did... and you can't really assume unless you watch the queues exclusively AND NOT ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN CW.


Some of us actually participate in CW and see what actually goes down instead of spending time on total conjecture w/o actually discussing reality.

That's why it is very hard to take your assertion seriously.

Its not too hard. Its actually very easy.

If a Unit decides to play CW and opens up their map and sees an enemy team of 12 players attacking one of the Planets with 8 defenders in que, the Unit could easily step in to Defend and bump the Pug of 8 defenders.

However since there is already 12 attackers, its a pretty safe bet that the attackers are either a Unit or Premade. Even though they cant actually see who is in que, its a safe bet that they are.

So if the Unit decides they dont want to fight the Unit or Premade, all they have to do is pick an empty planet to attack, and increase their chances that they will get a Pug opposition.

Its not guaranteed that some other Unit wont take up the call to defend, but it does increase their chances of getting a Pug drop.

And all of this can be done at a glance with basic math. Nobody has to sit and watch the ques for hours on end.

Im not saying that all Units do it. All I am saying is that its not that hard to increase the chances of a Pug opposition without spending a lot of time or effort to get it.

And btw Im not making it up. Even the Unit players themselves have said that Attacking a planet leads to more Pug opposition.

Even though many of them are not meaning to, the attacking of planets makes for faster que times but the drawback is the increase in Pug opposition.

A fact that is easily exploitable without much effort.

Time for work. see you in 10 hours

Cheers

Edited by JaxRiot, 10 January 2016 - 09:55 AM.

[Deathlike]

JaxRiot, on 10 January 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

Its not too hard. Its actually very easy.

If a Unit decides to play CW and opens up their map and sees an enemy team of 12 players attacking one of the Planets with 8 defenders in que, the Unit could easily step in to Defend and bump the Pug of 8 defenders.

However since there is already 12 attackers, its a pretty safe bet that the attackers are either a Unit or Premade. Even though they cant actually see who is in que, its a safe bet that they are.

So if the Unit decides they dont want to fight the Unit or Premade, all they have to do is pick an empty planet to attack, and increase their chances that they will get a Pug opposition.

Its not guaranteed that some other Unit wont take up the call to defend, but it does increase their chances of getting a Pug drop.

And all of this can be done at a glance with basic math. Nobody has to sit and watch the ques for hours on end.

Im not saying that all Units do it. All I am saying is that its not that hard to increase the chances of a Pug opposition without spending a lot of time or effort to get it.

And btw Im not making it up. Even the Unit players themselves have said that Attacking a planet leads to more Pug opposition.

Even though many of them are not meaning to, the attacking of planets makes for faster que times but the drawback is the increase in Pug opposition.

A fact that is easily exploitable without much effort.

Time for work. see you in 10 hours

Cheers

Again, you're watching queues instead of actually playing CW.

Edited by Deathlike, 10 January 2016 - 01:12 PM.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Deathlike, on 09 January 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

The problem is that the mode is not really meant for casuals.

If you're not committed to working hard and working to win, complaining about CW as a mode is the last thing that would be justifiable.

That's the problem when you're asking for a "hardcore mode" to be neutered.

I think you missed the point. In that blob of text I didn't complain about CW or ask for it to be neutered, so I'm going to assume you're responding to what you wanted to see, even though it wasn't there, because it was someone talking about casual players. What I did say was that its current implementation is trying to appeal to two different audiences that have different wants. It doesn't work.

CW as it is now isn't casual friendly. I'm not actually sure it's intended to be that way, but its structure doesn't allow for any kind of screening. That's how it is. However the door is wide open for casual folks, new players in trial mechs, anyone really, to drop in even though the mode isn't friendly to them at all. The actual point was that if you're really a proponent of CW as hard mode, you should be advocating for a different bar to entry so people stop going in there unprepared. Beatdowns aren't any fun, reportedly for both sides. So the current implementation is flawed because it refuses to pick a direction.

In the back and forth people have talked at length about how players need to know how to coordinate, outfit mechs and the like. I think that CW as hard mode needs to have the bar to entry set so players can't drop without having a unit. The process of looking for one, joining and talking to the people in it will inform them of what they need to do before they ever make their first drop, and then automatically grants them a pool of people to draw on for help or for groups. Then CW needs to be designed for a lower player population, because it will never have mass appeal until the in-game social tools improve.

Going out and getting a unit is a fairly good entry bar as far as I can tell, because if someone's willing to go to the game site, do some research and join up, then they're probably going to invest the effort in all the other aspects of CW. Those people who can't or won't do that will be screened out.

However, if the long-term design of CW is supposed to have mass appeal, then CW as hard mode needs to go away. I don't see a way to have two different sets of players in CW and keep them both happy if they're not isolated from each other. There are ways to isolate them, such as having different tiers of attack or defend missions, but the end result is the same.

Personally I don't see much of a future in CW until a direction is chosen, though I don't think the player population actually has the numbers to populate it as it is long term as a high difficulty mode.

[Deathlike]

Fleeb the Mad, on 10 January 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

I think you missed the point. In that blob of text I didn't complain about CW or ask for it to be neutered, so I'm going to assume you're responding to what you wanted to see, even though it wasn't there, because it was someone talking about casual players. What I did say was that its current implementation is trying to appeal to two different audiences that have different wants. It doesn't work.

CW as it is now isn't casual friendly. I'm not actually sure it's intended to be that way, but its structure doesn't allow for any kind of screening. That's how it is. However the door is wide open for casual folks, new players in trial mechs, anyone really, to drop in even though the mode isn't friendly to them at all. The actual point was that if you're really a proponent of CW as hard mode, you should be advocating for a different bar to entry so people stop going in there unprepared. Beatdowns aren't any fun, reportedly for both sides. So the current implementation is flawed because it refuses to pick a direction.

In the back and forth people have talked at length about how players need to know how to coordinate, outfit mechs and the like. I think that CW as hard mode needs to have the bar to entry set so players can't drop without having a unit. The process of looking for one, joining and talking to the people in it will inform them of what they need to do before they ever make their first drop, and then automatically grants them a pool of people to draw on for help or for groups. Then CW needs to be designed for a lower player population, because it will never have mass appeal until the in-game social tools improve.

Going out and getting a unit is a fairly good entry bar as far as I can tell, because if someone's willing to go to the game site, do some research and join up, then they're probably going to invest the effort in all the other aspects of CW. Those people who can't or won't do that will be screened out.

However, if the long-term design of CW is supposed to have mass appeal, then CW as hard mode needs to go away. I don't see a way to have two different sets of players in CW and keep them both happy if they're not isolated from each other. There are ways to isolate them, such as having different tiers of attack or defend missions, but the end result is the same.

Personally I don't see much of a future in CW until a direction is chosen, though I don't think the player population actually has the numbers to populate it as it is long term as a high difficulty mode.

Player population for CW is dictated on two things... events and the interest in CW in terms of long term goals/rewards. Events are random, and there are no reasons to stay in a particular faction due to how contracts are structured (everyone is a Merc ultimately). Many units don't play CW due to the mode being really uninteresting (the mechanics and/or the rewards themselves).

The bar to entry for CW has to exist... I don't think being a unit is necessary (but usually far more helpful and useful long term)... and the most reasonable bar would actually having a dropdeck of your own (no trials, or max trial mech usage of 1) so that the grind to get there makes you understand it takes time and effort to build a dropdeck to be successful. It's imperfect, but it's better than watching players using strict trial dropdecks that don't know how to shoot and torso twist effectively (let alone just standing there as a target dummy).

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Hey 228, we're going to have a 12 man on tonight, Geidi Prime looks peaceful. Meet us there?"

No no no, that's too hard.

And still no response to this:

Quote

Show me the threads where you complain to PGI about how boring it is for you to farm newbies. Show me the threads where you all are brainstorming ways to make it easier to fight each other instead of newbies. If you were half as competitive as you claim, Russ's twitter feed would be spammed with complaints about "the new easy mode" and suggestions on how to fix it.

But we won't see any of that. Because you are satisfied with the way things are now. "We don't really want to farm newbies for easy rewards but the devs are making us, oh well. <smirk> Too bad so sad"

We've seen the comp teams mobilize to beat down PGI's door when they think something is gamebreaking. And we don't see them doing anything now. So insisting that you don't want to farm newbies doesn't seem honest. Your actions don't match your words.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 10 January 2016 - 12:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

"Hey 228, we're going to have a 12 man on tonight, Geidi Prime looks peaceful. Meet us there?"

No no no, that's too hard.

It doesn't really work like that... no matter how you think it's easy to have (easy to do a private lobby than try to sync drop instead).

Quote

And still no response to this:



We've seen the comp teams mobilize to beat down PGI's door when they think something is gamebreaking. And we don't see them doing anything now. So insisting that you don't want to farm newbies doesn't seem honest. Your actions don't match your words.

You're mistaking things and skewing it.

We've been saying "don't play CW until you're ready" and "go to your faction hub to get better help". Refusing to do either is not my problem.

Most players will play whatever is given to them... so to claim otherwise is totally disingenious. The difference is that the others that can't handle it will complain that "it isn't easier for them" when the reality is that they didn't make it easier for themselves... working with other players. If opposing force happens to be the dregs of the faction... well, that's what you get for not being organized.

Complaining about who you get is akin to complaining about how a sports team scheduled seems "rigged" (talking about having the easiest or hardest schedule). You play against who you get and you can't really complain about it. Your wasting your time, since you can't guarantee a win or loss based on your opponent. Otherwise, would you be treating a 12-man SWOL team as the same threat as a 4-man 228? (seriously lol @ the "SWOL power rankings"). Like the group queue... not all premades (especially 12-mans) are equal. Same thing applies to CW.

Edited by Deathlike, 10 January 2016 - 01:44 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Davion is notorious for gleefully throwing themselves at people they have trouble beating. It is why our enemies love to hate us.

I pug a lot. I drop with a lot of groups and units. I also have an alt I pug with for giggles when Davion is dead quiet. Almost universally the units I drop with are there to take a planet. Competition makes that more fun. When it's a mixed, mostly pug group is when people want to jump planets to avoid tough enemies.

The problem is that attack > defend and good units know that you all ways drop attack while scrubs and pugs are drawn to defense because.... blue is easier to click than red? Also nobody wants to queue on a 0 world. They know that some will queue to play them. Ironically they are choosing to queue against mostly organized teams because....

I dunno. One of the biggest strengths I saw in CJF was that their pugs seem to fill attack queues. I will regularly in up in pure pug attack drops.

That and the units who drop for CJF are ******* relentless. I watched a 8man kcom who happened to be on the same drop cycle as me slowly whittle down to 3 or 4 as the night went on. Every other big team I've dropped with tends to quit when they are not 10 or 12, these guys were dropping literally as fast as I was, same cycle. If I stopped to spend some XP (I bought a mech! Now I'm only 3 trials in my deck!) They were already queued.

It's not just kcom either, I see a lot of cjf units dropping in small groups and calling drops of pugs. I can't stress enough how overall effective this was. I've only lost two CW drops when pugging for CJF in trials, I've won 17. They are consistently training up their pugs and have got them trained to drop attack queue first. They certainly don't switch fronts when they hit adversity.

Not always easy. I watched a drop caller get frustrated with some pugs that just wouldn't form up, wouldn't take good positions and kept shooting legs. That match was way closer than it should have been. Most of us though we're bright enough to fall in where directed and shoot what was called. Everyone who did outscored those who didn't.

Success isn't an action. It's not one thing you do one time. It's a set of behaviors and habits you you do consistently. You do so with your peers and you create a culture of success that perpetuates itself.

The people who are a switching targets are the people who know they can't win. Generally that's not the big units.

[vandalhooch]

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

"Hey 228, we're going to have a 12 man on tonight, Geidi Prime looks peaceful. Meet us there?"

No no no, that's too hard.

Dumbest thing you've said so far.

How exactly do you limit that drop to those two exact teams when anyone from either faction or often any faction at all can just join the queue?

We've tried this in the past. It works occasionally when you can choose a relatively quiet front (i.e. Kurita/FRR). But, if the two units are in say IS and Clan, forget it. It will never work.

Quote

And still no response to this:

We've seen the comp teams mobilize to beat down PGI's door when they think something is gamebreaking. And we don't see them doing anything now. So insisting that you don't want to farm newbies doesn't seem honest. Your actions don't match your words.

And your words don't seem to match any actual experience in the game mode.

[MechWarrior3671771]

vandalhooch, on 10 January 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

Dumbest thing you've said so far.

How exactly do you limit that drop to those two exact teams when anyone from either faction or often any faction at all can just join the queue?

We've tried this in the past. It works occasionally when you can choose a relatively quiet front (i.e. Kurita/FRR). But, if the two units are in say IS and Clan, forget it. It will never work.

"It works occasionally.... It will never work"

Next!

[ccrider]

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

"It works occasionally.... It will never work"

Next!

Ok, throughout this post no one has said that PUGs aren't welcome in CW, or that it's totally welcoming to new players either. CW is endgame content for people who A. want to play the team/unit portion of MW:O and B. are familiar with the core concepts of the game(movement, heat management, 'mech building etc.). What this post was for was to alleviate concerns about how joining a unit was hard or how no one will help new players cause CW is some sort of shark tank where giant mega units eat newbies for breakfast. Many suggestions have been made for new players so they can better enjoy the mode as it was intended to be played. In a team. However, you and a few others seem hellbent on derailing the thread with supreme negativity. Units aren't responsible for changing the coding or rules. We don't set the guidelines or program the game at all. What we are trying to do is to help people get better at, and enjoy, CW as it currently exists. All these replies have one thing in common; "here's ways to get better WITHIN THE GAME AS IT EXISTS TODAY." Saying things should be changed so it works a different way is useless. Saying that units should be able to do things that they can't easily do is useless. We've all been trying to encourage people to jump on faction hubs, ask questions and communicate with their teams so they play better and get more out of the mode. Yet time and time again, the replies are "blah,blah why can't you do it this way? Even if this way is not even realistically plausible?" For instance, today my unit did exactly ONE 12 man drop. Then we did 2 9's, 3 7's and 2 4's. That's MY guys. So now not only do I need them to rearrange their real lives so we can track down another 12 man, I also need that other unit to do the same thing. AND we need to be in factions that border each other so we can actually fight. AND I need no PUGgles to swarm to the planet when they start seeing people queueing up. Do you see how that may not be particularly realistic? So, I appreciate you wanting to join in the conversation, but you need to offer up something besides "turn CW into dropdeck solo mode." I hardly ever play solo for a reason; I like being socialable and dropping with other players. My unit, other units that help fill our drops, random PUGs who fill out a drop, whoever. Everyone is invited to our TS and we talk and have fun with whoevers with us. If you just can't stand that idea, that being social is against the way you play games, that is perfectly fine. Solo mode is perfect for that. And you know what; none of us who enjoy playing CW will be writing bitchy posts trying to get PGI to change solo mode to accomodate us so I'd appreciate if we could stop trying to change the mode that teams/units enjoy to better fit the solo players vision.

[MrJeffers]

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

I have. Its not that hard. Not any worse than organizing a league match. Try it and see. Just once.

I've been in dozens of private practices, skirmishes, and league matches. Which is why I know from experience that you are wrong. Or your definition of easy is different from everyone else.

Fen Tetsudo, on 10 January 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

I beginning to think you guys just want to farm newbies for easy rewards, since you shout down EVERY suggestion that might prevent that, and refuse to come up with some on your own. You're smart enough and creative enough to create meta decks and perfect CW tactics, but you cant come up with a way to seek out units that will give you a challenge? Please.

You are competitve and think CW is hardcore? Show me the threads where you complain to PGI about how boring it is for you to farm newbies. Show me the threads where you all are brainstorming ways to make it easier to fight each other instead of newbies. If you were half as competitive as you claim, Russ's twitter feed would be spammed with complaints about "the new easy mode" and suggestions on how to fix it.

But we won't see any of that. Because you are satisfied with the way things are now. "We don't really want to farm newbies for easy rewards but the devs are making us, oh well. <smirk> Too bad so sad"

Then you go on to continue your trolling, wide sweeping, and mistaken generalizations. All of the above are baseless generalizations that don't apply to me, or the vast majority of the other players and units in the game.

You keep spouting your Russ Bullock misquote, probably not even realizing you are misquoting it because it's fairly obvious you didn't listen to it in the first place.

For your information here are the quotes:

Quote

So I see MS and 228 have gone back to IS - Steiner and FRR - any other notable units switched since Tuk?

2 retweets 8 likes

• 
  
  
  Adam Burghardt ‏@C4Asaru 28 Dec 2015
  @russ_bullock Yes once again the major merc units are coordinating there movements around the map. This needs some restrictions soon.
  
  0 retweets 3 likes

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock
@C4Asaru This ^^ yet again they never set themselves up to fight each other but avoid it

LoveYouRuss ‏@LoveYouRuss
@russ_bullock @C4Asaru And why would they if the current system makes it so easy to farm PUGs instead? Russ help us, you are our only hope.

https://twitter.com/...562958116159489

Note that there are two - yes *TWO* big units called out. Not your broad "big units" or units in general. Two units.

Also note that this is only *what* they are doing, not the *why* they are doing it, something that you and 'loveyouruss' (your alt?) inject your pug farming reasoning into. BS. You have no idea the WHY, if you do pull out the smoking gun and link it. Your reasons don't mean jack.

Only way to beat a troll is to stop feeding them, so I am going to stop feeding you. You are flat wrong and won't listen to any reason or logic whatsoever.

Edited by MrJeffers, 11 January 2016 - 08:48 AM.

[TLBFestus]

PerfectDuck, on 09 January 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

New players, old players, first-time users or bittervets, young and old, are all welcomed in FRR Hub, Kurita Teamspeak, Comstar, Strana Mechty, NGNG, and dozens of other communications hubs. Come on in, enter a lobby, be part of a 12-man.

We would LOVE to see more people show up in these. There's a reason the servers are made to accommodate hundreds at a time.

That this so-called 80% is not welcome to join the competitive players is absurd. Do you even TS3 bro?

Whether you would "Love"it or not has no bearing on whether casual players will do it. Just because it's "all that and a bag of chips" to you, doesn't mean that the casual player shares your opinion. It's not just that CW is marked as unfriendly territory (It's HARD mode bro, get out if you can't hack it ...is a familiar refrain) to PUGs, it's that 80% don't care for it, many don't want to use TS at all. The fact YOU like it means nothing, nada, zero.

[PerfectDuck]

They're against segregated queues, that MUST mean they want to farm pugs. Has nothing to do with them believing they're playing the game the right way and that solopugs are playing the game the wrong way.

I thought Fen Testudo warned us of his superior forum kung fu, but all I'm seeing is continual repeats of the same strawman.