87 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 January 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Spool up adds flavor and also prevents you from easily cheesing with a 20-damage, de facto PPFLD, hitscan blaster using jump-jets. You could still pop-tart, but it'll take a lot more practice to get the timing down, and that's the point.

Honestly, I roll my eyes at everyone who is against charge up on principle. It's like they've never played any other shooters, most of which have several weapons with varying fire modes. UT's Link Gun, Ion Painter, Bio Rifle, Rocket Launcher, and Shock Rifle all come to mind. There are also the MAG Cannon and TAG Cannon in Battlezone, the Particle Accelerator Cannon in Heavy Gear 2, and many, many others.

Not to mention the bows and spells on all the TES games and their sh!tty asian clones.

[VinJade]

I am sure there are many that hate it when we have people from other games wanting to change it match their favorite game.
its the same reason many don't like cod players ether when they try and pull their cod crap here.

BT even mw is a unique game that is *gasp* not like other games and should be treated as such.

don't like it then go back to playing gears or whatever those weapons come from.

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 06:08 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

VinJade, on 09 January 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

yes the MW line has done that a few times the only thing that remained constant is that nether of those weapons was ever charged.

You say that like it's a good thing. The other MechWarrior games were also inferior to this one in terms of balance (that should actually tell you a lot considering how mediocre this game is with balance) and actually something of a snooze-fest compared with contemporary games like Heavy Gear 2, Battlezone, or even Wing Commander: Prophecy.

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yeah it is a button however if you charge it too long it resets and have to do it all over again.

That's how the Gauss works in MWO, yes, but what I was saying is not even that. You don't have to do anything, you just pull the trigger once. That's it. You just have to keep your crosshairs pointed at the target for that brief fraction of a second it takes for it to spin up and fire that hit-scan beam. And all that happens in less time than it takes an IS Small Pulse Laser to fire.

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once charge they DON'T have to be recharged until fired PGI already doesn't seem to understand that ether. besides why should we have to pay just to make you few happy?

And now we're getting to the heart of the argument.

You guys don't give two sh*ts about the lore in this situation, what you care about is having a gun that is easy to use and lets you stomp robots.

That's fine. It's also a complete snore.

If I want to take something that behaves exactly like an autocannon, I'll take an autocannon. If I want to take something that behaves exactly like a laser, I'll take a laser.

A PPC is neither an AC nor a laser. It's actually a rather exotic weapon being much more complex than either of those two. Firing a PPC is supposed to be a big deal and has always been made out to be an event, and simply making it fire a slow-moving, blue fuzzball as soon as I click my mouse is quite possibly the lamest outcome for any weapon in all of MechWarrior. I just spend 14 tons for two guns and 10 tons in heatsinks just to support them, and here they are having about as much gravitas as a frickin' Medium Laser while, simultaneously, being less effective.

This is all sorts of wrong.

I like the idea of the 'Mech taking control when I tell it to fire the PPCs, taking its 0.25 seconds to spool up while I frantically move to keep the target lined up. It makes you check with yourself before firing your PPC, because a miss is going to be expensive in terms of heat, cool-down time, and potential lost armor, but because it's hit-scan it means a connecting shot will be absolutely devastating. We're talking 20-30 points gone in 0.2 seconds at 540 to 810 meters if you can keep your cool and stay on target long enough for it to fire.

Using a PPC then would become a big deal.

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how about this then two options one it auto charges like normal & the other manually charged. the one auto charged is normal time to recharge while the Manual charge is faster at recharge.

both parties would be happy with this.

That's also completely pointless. That dodges both possible motives for a charge-up: flavor and balance.

[VinJade]

don't give a damn about lore?
oh that is a good one, as I said give me one source and what did you give me?
personally attacks against the very ones that are the powers that be, the end all authority on everything that is BT/MW.

and don't you dare insult the vast superior MW titles like MW 3 by calling MWO superior as it isn't.
it is a good game sure but it is not better than MW 3.

one of the reasons is Because MW 3 had a real story behind it(better than mw 4) and that is something MWO is lacking. and it would be stupid of them to try and give MWO a real story, if they did then they would have to go from cannon and recreate the entire BT lore and you think BT players was bad before, just think of how much an outrage that would cause, not to mention I doubt Herb would let them anyways.

also don't talk to me about lore, I have been with the games since 87 and keep up with the lore, so tell me how long have you been with BT?
MW 4, Mech commander, MWO, ect does not count.

there is no flavor nor balance by the way. it only feeds those like you wanting to make MW into just another bland shoot 'em up game.

that's why I said, don't like it then play a game where those guns are from and leave BT/MW alone.

this isn't gears, cod, ect.

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

VinJade, on 09 January 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

don't give a damn about lore?
oh that is a good one, as I said give me one source and what did you give me?
personally attacks against the very ones that are the powers that be, the end all authority on everything that is BT/MW.

and don't you dare insult the vast superior MW titles like MW 3 by calling MWO superior as it isn't.
it is a good game sure but it is not better than MW 3.

one of the reasons is Because MW 3 had a real story behind it(better than mw 4) and that is something MWO is lacking. and it would be stupid of them to try and give MWO a real story, if they did then they would have to go from cannon and recreate the entire BT lore and you think BT players was bad before, just think of how much an outrage that would cause, not to mention I doubt Herb would let them anyways.

also don't talk to me about lore, I have been with the games since 87 and keep up with the lore, so tell me how long have you been with BT?
MW 4, Mech commander, MWO, ect does not count.

there is no flavor nor balance by the way. it only feeds those like you wanting to make MW into just another bland shoot 'em up game.

that's why I said, don't like it then play a game where those guns are from and leave BT/MW alone.

this isn't gears, cod, ect.

Full disclaimer: I have paid some attention to MechWarrior since the '90s but never really got into it until MWO. Heavy Gear 2 was a superior Mech game to MW3 (and has superior fluff to BTech), and Battlezone was a superior game to either. Most of what I do know either comes from Sarna or people like you. That said, I personally don't give a damn about the fluff. It's poorly written and full of mechanical holes. It needs to be burned to the ground so that it can be rebuilt in such a way that it can stand on its own without blowhards having to go "lel bcuz space magic" or "rule of kewl." I am solely interested in making this game interesting. If everything is just a reskin of every other thing, what's the point? It's why games like Battlefield and Call of Duty no longer appeal: you have 50 million guns that all shoot bullets and none of them behaves appreciably different from the rest. Contrast that with something like Halo, where you have some really freaky and interesting options to spice it up, including a rail gun that has to charge and is so utterly satisfying to use when you pull off that shot.

BattleTech has tons of possibility for variety. ALL OF THE GUNS save ballistics/missiles/flamers/chem lasers should technically require charging capacitors, regardless of whether or not some dimwit said "top kek lazors draw their powr str8 from da reactor!" and as such they all need to either go boom when destroyed for consistency's sake or they need to have a user-initiated charge cycle before they can fire.

Ergo, I am not playing the lore game with you as much as I am telling you that your game is stupid and I don't care to preserve it in its current form.

And to answer one of your earlier questions, no, I wouldn't mind if somebody started changing things around with my favorite franchises, so long as those changes are interesting. Just look at what the new Star Wars movie did to its own franchise; the movie was mediocre but the concepts it posits are quite interesting. Or how about Battlestar Galactica? I liked the original. I like the reimagined version even more. Change is good, change is awesome.

On to the next point, I'm not making personal attacks. I'm making blanket statements based on my experiences dealing with people. If it weren't true, something as inconsequential as a novelty charge mechanic that doesn't actually make any weapon hard to use (unless you insist on playing with a joystick, but, eh) wouldn't get people so worked up. Nobody is super broken up about IS ACs being single-shot. Nobody is super broken up about large-class lasers getting more damage and less heat than they should.

Lore-accuracy is simply not the issue here, it's players not wanting something to be harder to use out of the box that's the issue. Maybe you are genuine, maybe you aren't. Without knowing you, I'm inclined to believe the former.

But if you want me to make it personal, I will oblige:

Are you not the same VinJade who is mad at the ERLL actually fulfilling its intended role as a sniping weapon and who wants to remove the 90 meter minimum range from the standard PPC, a minimum range which exists in the rules unless you want to risk blowing up the weapon on firing? Being a bit picky about which bits of lore to fight over, aren't you?

I rest my case.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 09 January 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[VinJade]

Trying to take my comments out of context are we?
If I ever talk about mini-range it is about doing the same damage at mini range.

by the way here is the true information behind the PPC mini range:

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PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range

however it will not damage itself as long as the FI is active and at 90M it doesn't reduce the damage to nothing,
also there is a small risk of damage to the weapon itself with the FI turned off.

however by going from the information yielded by my search then I will back off the weapon doing 100% of it's normal damage to a little less but not Zero.

Nice try though.
also I am not mad at all, though nice try at deflecting my questions about finding a source for the PPC/GR needing charging and I thank you for making me look up the information(my books are being borrowed by my GM friend) .

In the end I still win, it shows nothing about needing to charge the weapons at all, so if you are able to give me a source and stop trying to deflect the question and when you can answer it we can talk again about lore until then don't try to out Lore me.

Visit Sarna.net you will find all the information about weapons & equipment there.
As to finding the game stupid, that is your opinion but not a valid one to screw over everyone else just for your hate of the game and its weapons.

Shouldn't be so smug as in the end you didn't win. you can have a cookie for trying though.

Do not like BT/MW then go away, and play some other game and stop trying to ruin it for everyone else.

edit: now that I think about it this drama must be good for others to read, anyone have popcorn? I think this Drama show will be going on for a looong time.

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[Sader325]

Jesus Christ.

Someone LOCK this thread.

Half the people here MISUNDERSTOOD the original idea.

The other half are off on some tangent argument that has nothing to do with the original idea.

Since no one is actually discussing the mechanic suggested in the OP.

This thread serves no purpose and I am OFFICIALLY asking a moderator to LOCK AND DISCARD this thread.

Edited by Sader325, 09 January 2016 - 11:03 PM.

[VinJade]

now, now Sader.
don't you want to see where this leads?
people might get a good laugh or enjoy the drama

though to be honest it was doomed to end like this...

Edited by VinJade, 09 January 2016 - 11:03 PM.