296 replies to this topic

[Tyler Valentine]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

People are turning this into an "us vs. them" problem when the real problem is that CW is woefully incomplete and significantly lacks depth and immersion.

Well, that is a problem, but not the one we are talking about here, If CW Mk VII was suddenly released with all sorts of dynamic game modes and politics, large groups would still dominate in our current environment.
But let's assume for a second that you are correct. For the time being wouldn't you like separate queues so that you could actually be challenged instead of walking over a bunch of guys with absolutely no chance?

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

I am beginning to suspect some people have some kind of agenda against CW or MWO itself.

...and the tinfoil hat comes out

[MadcatX]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Honestly, because in 4-5 months when they plan to roll out the next actual CW updates - they and the groups will have successfully burned a lot of the newcomers from steam away from the game.

Please provide the raw data that indicates that new players from Steam are leaving MW:O because one game mode is harsh to them. Actual data, not anecdotal, not "your personal experience", raw data. If you cannot, then your arguments hinging on how it will ruin the new player experience are invalid.

The whole "X will ruin the new player experience" is something that is used a lot around here to justify every point of view.

[sycocys]

Mystere - whether you like it or not, we'll never make it to the point of more modes or an in depth system if the current placeholder one keeps driving away players.

Doesn't matter whether CW3 is going to be a huge step or not if the population is driven back down to 800 people a day and ~300 at peak hours like it was not long ago.

There's simply a point where PGI is going to need to make CW more casual/solo friendly if it wants to keep that portion of its player base because there is simply not that much to do in the game and no other way to introduce players to a more challenging mode of play.

[MadcatX]

Sandpit, on 13 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Is there any reason the other 3-4 threads about this and discussing this weren't good enough?
Do we REALLY have to repeat everything that's been said
again
every time a new thread is created?

Sounds like business as usual around here.
I'm taking solace in the fact that at least it's not a multiple LRM threads.

[sycocys]

MadcatX, on 13 January 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Please provide the raw data that indicates that new players from Steam are leaving MW:O because one game mode is harsh to them. Actual data, not anecdotal, not "your personal experience", raw data. If you cannot, then your arguments hinging on how it will ruin the new player experience are invalid.

The whole "X will ruin the new player experience" is something that is used a lot around here to justify every point of view.

When multiple new players are saying they are uninstalling the game after their 3rd time in a row of getting rolled up, it's a pretty good indicator that what's going on isn't working for new players.

[Mystere]

Tyler Valentine, on 13 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Well, that is a problem, but not the one we are talking about here, If CW Mk VII was suddenly released with all sorts of dynamic game modes and politics, large groups would still dominate in our current environment.
But let's assume for a second that you are correct. For the time being wouldn't you like separate queues so that you could actually be challenged instead of walking over a bunch of guys with absolutely no chance?

Quick play was supposed to only be a "filler" while CW was still "being developed but will be ready within 90 days of release". But now it is a "main feature".

Splitting the solo from the group public queue was supposed to be a "filler" while CW was still "being developed but will be ready within 90 days of release". But now it is a "main feature".

Fast forward to 2016 and creating split queues in CW is supposed to be a "filler" while CW is still "being developed".

Doesn't anyone notice a pattern.

Tyler Valentine, on 13 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

...and the tinfoil hat comes out

A whole bunch of threads on the same topic suddenly popped up and initiated by jaded veterans and they're all a coincidence? I think not!

[Johnny Z]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Quick play was supposed to only be a "filler" while CW was still "being developed but will be ready within 90 days of release". But now it is a "main feature".

Splitting the solo from the group public queue was supposed to be a "filler" while CW was still "being developed but will be ready within 90 days of release". But now it is a "main feature".

Fast forward to 2016 and creating split queues in CW is supposed to be a "filler" while CW is still "being developed".

Doesn't anyone notice a pattern.




A whole bunch of threads on the same topic suddenly popped up and initiated by jaded veterans and they're all a coincidence? I think not!

I agree this is a unit conspiracy and they are even making fun of my hats to remove all doubt.

[Khobai]

Quote

Considering I only play solo and am not afraid of those "12-man Bogeymen", I'm going to have to say no. What is the point of the "Lone Wolf" classification if none would be allowed?

This. some people dont want to join a unit for whatever reason. that is why lone wolves exist.

forcing people to join units isnt any kindve solution.

again the best solution is just have two queues: one for pugs and one for premades.

[Amsro]

One thing for sure, when you are in a 6-12 man group in CW and a group of 12 pugs is on the other side the game mode becomes a total joke.

(not to say CW is a good mode to begin with)

Maybe CW should be limited to players in Unit's only.

Maybe you should need at least 4 owned mechs.

Maybe a minimum amount of standard que drops.

Edited by Amsro, 13 January 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Quick play was supposed to only be a "filler" while CW was still "being developed but will be ready within 90 days of release". But now it is a "main feature".

Splitting the solo from the group public queue was supposed to be a "filler" while CW was still "being developed but will be ready within 90 days of release". But now it is a "main feature".

Fast forward to 2016 and creating split queues in CW is supposed to be a "filler" while CW is still "being developed".

Doesn't anyone notice a pattern.




A whole bunch of threads on the same topic suddenly popped up and initiated by jaded veterans and they're all a coincidence? I think not!

the back burner is a known PGI problem, yes.

still haven't answered my question...

Edited by Tyler Valentine, 13 January 2016 - 11:02 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Amsro, on 13 January 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Maybe CW should be limited to players in Unit's only.

Why? If I'm willing to get rolled (which happens less than some people make it seem AND I'll win every match once the large groups come back or I switch to IS) I should be allowed to.

[Khobai]

Quote

Maybe CW should be limited to players in Unit's only.

how is that really any different from having two queues?

with two queues, units would still only play units... which would be exactly the same as if only units were allowed to play CW.

except youd also have a pug queue, so pugs would still get to play, and would only have to play other pugs. having a pug queue means you arnt castigating the majority of the player base who ARNT in units.

I dont understand the whole logic behind making CW units only... its stupid.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[MadcatX]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

When multiple new players are saying they are uninstalling the game after their 3rd time in a row of getting rolled up, it's a pretty good indicator that what's going on isn't working for new players.

I hope you're not referring to the multiple new players that are posting that in the forums since they represent a tiny tiny fraction of the new playerbase. And we all know how trustworthy those "I'm uninstalling!!" messages can be. You cannot provide anything that's close to measurable. Are we talking about 1% of the new players, 10%, do you even know beyond just "multiple"?

[sycocys]

Splitting queue - The effect.

Would still be a harder mode for pugs instead of - Mission Impossible: Let's Get Rolled Edition
The map setup and required additional objective tend to make it more challenging than standard queue even with little coordination.

Group queue wouldn't be tainted by terrible drop weight restrictions and would actually be a challenge mode. Because you'd actually have to face other coordinated groups. Hard mode is actually hard mode instead of easy mode 90% of the time.

Group drop times would be longer until teams actually started attacking/defending against each other and filling groups in LFG instead of forming 3 and dropping on a random planet.

3 Buckets

Simple queue system. No one gets split off.
Only adjustment needed is attack/defense match selection and a modification of the planet selector system to make it a planet capture/defense system.
Fast queue times for everyone.
Groups will be outnumbered by pugs so pugs will face pugs far more often.

Neither is perfect, both are far better solutions to what it is now and both have been utilized and proven to work for this game and its entire player base instead of catering specifically to one or the other.

[zolop]

A better option, allow community warfare maps to be played in quick play, but without loyalty gain bonus, nor changes to the Faction warfare map. Disable all turrets on these maps. Or if turrets are enabled, allow a drop deck (going to take some serious programming though).

Change Faction warfare only available to Player mercenary groups. (EG -MS-). Both parties can now play CW, but if you want to play with the Faction warfare and effect the Faction warfare map, you must be in a mercenary group.

If players aren't going to take the next step and join the MWO community by a community, again COMMUNITY group they can play those maps in quick play, without effecting the Faction warfare map.

Though CW is still "In Developement" so I think wating for CW phase 3 is the best option..

Edited by zolop, 13 January 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[sycocys]

MadcatX, on 13 January 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

I hope you're not referring to the multiple new players that are posting that in the forums since they represent a tiny tiny fraction of the new playerbase. And we all know how trustworthy those "I'm uninstalling!!" messages can be. You cannot provide anything that's close to measurable. Are we talking about 1% of the new players, 10%, do you even know beyond just "multiple"?

I'm talking about players I've seen post that in chat. And even if the ones that post are a tiny fraction, you don't account for all the players that just throw their hands up and say "F. This." hit uninstall and go play something else. They won't even show up in PGI's stats for months when they start to realize how many aren't logging back on.

[Amsro]

Tyler Valentine, on 13 January 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

Why? If I'm willing to get rolled (which happens less than some people make it seem AND I'll win every match once the large groups come back or I switch to IS) I should be allowed to.

I'll admit I didn't give it much thought.

Sure, possibly have a 2 stage limit then, either you need to be in a unit, or you need to have played X amount of matches.

Lets be honest if you see a team of players with 4 trial mechs as their drop deck you shed a tear.

[Khobai]

Quote

Change Faction warfare only available to Player mercanary groups. (EG -MS-). Both parties can now play CW, but if you want to play with the Faction warfare and effect the Faction warfare map, you must be in a mercenary group.

No thats dumb. Anyone should be able to affect the map regardless of whether theyre in a merc group or not.

Even PGI feels that way, thats why theyre adding the 4v4 scouting mode to the game, so pugs can have more of an impact on the CW map.

Unfortunately that still doesnt solve the problem of pug vs premade


Its pretty simple really...

When a pug first joins a CW lobby... the lobby should only allow other pugs to join. If a certain amount of time passes and theres still not enough players, then a release valve would open which would allow groups to join the lobby as well.

Likewise, when a group first joins a lobby... the lobby would only allow other groups to join. And same thing, you have a release valve that opens after a certain amount of time passes, that allows pugs to fill in the empty spots if it cant find enough groups.

And obviously the matchmaker will try to prioritize filling up existing games over starting new games.

So initially itll try to match pugs vs pugs and premades vs premades but if it cant find enough players within a certain amount of time, then itll allow a pug vs premade match just so a match takes place. Because pug vs premade is still better than waiting forever and not playing a match at all.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Mystere]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Mystere - whether you like it or not, we'll never make it to the point of more modes or an in depth system if the current placeholder one keeps driving away players.

Doesn't matter whether CW3 is going to be a huge step or not if the population is driven back down to 800 people a day and ~300 at peak hours like it was not long ago.

In the short term, all it will take is one game mode that does that. One.

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

There's simply a point where PGI is going to need to make CW more casual/solo friendly if it wants to keep that portion of its player base because there is simply not that much to do in the game and no other way to introduce players to a more challenging mode of play.

I know of one: opening the group queue to solo players what want more challenge.

[Amsro]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

I dont understand the whole logic behind making CW units only... its stupid.

The main logic is to take "new" players out of the mode, but it is true that not all solo players are new.

Instead you need x amount of games played or maybe 4 of your OWNED mechs in your drop deck.

I guess my logic was you shouldn't be able to install the game, wander thought the training and then hit launch on CW with 4 trial mechs and get wiped with 50 damage over 4 mechs.

That is no fun for either side. And that has been my experience in CW the past month or so. Just smashing pugs into the ground.

Change is need... that for sure isn't "stupid".