296 replies to this topic

[zolop]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

No thats dumb. Anyone should be able to affect the map regardless of whether theyre in a merc group or not.

Even PGI feels that way, thats why theyre adding the 4v4 scouting mode to the game, so pugs can have more of an impact on the CW map.

Unfortunately that still doesnt solve the problem of pug vs premade

Its pretty simple really...

When a pug first joins a match... the match only allows other pugs to join the match. If a certain amount of time passes then a release valve is opened which allows groups to now join the match...

When a group first joins a match... the a match only allows other groups to join the match. And same thing, you have a release valve after a certain amount of time passes, that allows pugs to fill in the empty spots.

Yeah maybe then group only, But waiting for PHase 3 of CW I think is the best option (which hopefully has a tutorial system for CW). The only problem with system mention, it will make wait time even longer and CW wait time is long enough as it is.

Plus didn't PGI state the quick-play mode is for casuals, the developer of the game said that. They stated that when they started CW it was intentionally done for groups?

Edited by zolop, 13 January 2016 - 11:24 AM.

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 13 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Is there any reason the other 3-4 threads about this and discussing this weren't good enough?
Do we REALLY have to repeat everything that's been said
again
every time a new thread is created?

There is obviously a Crusade going on.

Johnny Z, on 13 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

That's a good idea to. Campaign rewards.

They absolutely must have capital captures to. Then everyone in that faction loses their faction until faction re-emergence.

We already have a lot of people complaining about the natural occurence of losing. I think your idea will make their heads explode.

...

On second thought, I think I would like to see people's heads exploding.

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I guess my logic was you shouldn't be able to install the game, wander thought the training and then hit launch on CW with 4 trial mechs and get wiped with 50 damage over 4 mechs.

simple fix. only allow non-trial fully mastered mechs in CW.

that way the ONLY people who can play CW are the ones that own and have mastered at least 4 mechs.

CW shouldnt allow trial mechs and it should be used for leveling up mechs either. It should be assumed that by the time youre ready to play CW you have at least 4 mastered mechs.

that keeps noobs out of CW without discriminating against ALL pugs.

but you still also need seperate queues for pugs and premades because thats a different problem entirely.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2016 - 11:33 AM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

This. some people dont want to join a unit for whatever reason. that is why lone wolves exist.

forcing people to join units isnt any kindve solution.

again the best solution is just have two queues: one for pugs and one for premades.

You can't quote me and then support a position that is the exact opposite of mine. No Siree!

Split queues are not the solution. I will just quote myself:

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Again the solution is more imaginative game modes paired with appropriate maps, all designed to add immersion and depth, while at the same time softening the blow for new players. That includes a more rational campaign system and faction organization tools.

This "Take 7+ planets for the win!" "campaign" system we have right now is not it, not even close.

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

In the short term, all it will take is one game mode that does that. One.

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

This is not rocket science.

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[MadcatX]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

I'm talking about players I've seen post that in chat. And even if the ones that post are a tiny fraction, you don't account for all the players that just throw their hands up and say "F. This." hit uninstall and go play something else. They won't even show up in PGI's stats for months when they start to realize how many aren't logging back on.

Of course I don't account for the people who uninstall and move on to something else because they are doing it for any number of reasons! Some arn't fans of mech sims. Others have moved on to whatever new game is being shown on the Steam Store. There are many reasons a new player would stop playing a game, especially a F2P game since they didn't pay a dime for it. To say that PuG squashing is the cause takes very little facts and a very large leap of faith.

PuG teams getting squashed most definitely happens and it would be nice if something were in place to alleviate that. I've seen some good ideas in this thread. But there is no need to instill a false sense of urgency through the use of losing new players in regards this issue.

[Lazor Sharp]

once again, PGI needs to do everything possible to get New Players in a unit FIRST DAMN THING so that the vets can train then in team work, and NEVER LET THE NEWBIES BECOME Solo's and Puggies that then become stray cats and baby seals with Terrible, Horrible non team work habits, that the public Solo and puggie group Q's foster

most of our current crop of solo's / puggie's ( = 2-5man casual units) have been completely ruined by these terrible game modes with their anti team work Mind Set, that PGI fostered when they made the group Q a 4 man limit, which drove off a lot of the unit players that would now be playing CW in a 12 man, and fostered the solo only, or be damned mind set......

Giving these vet solo's / puggies every reason possible to join units that can field 12 mans on a regular basis should be PGI's major focus, so that the % of Casual 12 man's that have good vets and a few newbies along with a few x puggie's that can be fielded every day is increased, to the point that the solo's / puggies / newbies are not getting stomped so much, as the % of solo / puggies / newbies playing CW by them self's is thinned out, and the % units fielding 12 mans is increased.......

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 13 January 2016 - 12:31 PM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

how is that really any different from having two queues?

with two queues, units would still only play units... which would be exactly the same as if only units were allowed to play CW.

except youd also have a pug queue, so pugs would still get to play, and would only have to play other pugs. having a pug queue means you arnt castigating the majority of the player base who ARNT in units.

I dont understand the whole logic behind making CW units only... its stupid.

How do you propose to stop sync drops in a CW solo queue, especially if it was a well-organized faction action?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Lol... What an ironic statement. Make community warfare less community based.

CW is about team play. That's why it warns you.
People wanted Voip it was to be the saviour of pugs they got Voip... And as far as my experience of it is.... It doesn't get used.

Pgi should never have made CW. They should have partnered with an external league that way the planetary aspect would only be open to those seeking to play as a team

[Johnny Z]

Lazor Sharp, on 13 January 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

once again, PGI needs to do everything possible to get New Players in a unit FIRST DAMN THING so that the vets can train then in team work, and NEVER LET THE NEWBIES BECOME Solo's and Puggies that then become stray cats and baby seals with Terrible, Horrible non team work habits, that the public Solo and puggie group Q's foster

most of our current crop of solo's / puggie's ( = 2-5man casual units) have been completely ruined by these terrible game modes with their anti team work Mind Set, that PGI fostered when they made the group Q a 4 man limit, which drove off a lot of the unit players that now would be playing CW in a 12 man, and fostered the solo only, or be damned mind set......

Giving these vet solo's / puggies every reason possible to join units that can field 12 mans on a regular basis should be PGI's major focus, so that the % of Casual 12 man's that have good vets and a few newbies along with a few x puggie's that can be fielded every day is increased, to the point that the solo's / puggies / newbies are not getting stomped so much, as the % of solo / puggies / newbies by them self's playing CW is thinned out, and the % units fielding 12 mans is increased.......

I'm all for guilds. They have a lot of problems to deal with and its a challenge to have a good guild.

Anyway, guilds are player made content and should be treated that way for the most part... its a form of respect for both the guilds and the players.

Aside from pro sim mechanics that is. But then I think most in game sim mechanics should be available to all players really. For numerous reasons.

Content should be in game that it is beneficial for players to make untis or guilds like hugely expensive jump ships for instance. Not arbitrary locks on how players play. Planet ownership is an excellent start though how ever hollow it is at the moment before everything else is added.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 January 2016 - 12:00 PM.

[sycocys]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

How do you propose to stop sync drops in a CW solo queue, especially if it was a well-organized faction action?

Adding a couple lines to the ToS -
Any and all units caught sync dropping into the solo queue will be punished by removal of CW drop capability for no less than 30 and up to 90 days for the entirety of the unit's member base. Continuity to do so will result in removal of individual accounts from the game.

Cleared up.

[Amsro]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

simple fix. only allow non-trial fully mastered mechs in CW.

that way the ONLY people who can play CW are the ones that own and have mastered at least 4 mechs.

CW shouldnt allow trial mechs and it should be used for leveling up mechs either. It should be assumed that by the time youre ready to play CW you have at least 4 mastered mechs.

that keeps noobs out of CW without discriminating against ALL pugs.

but you still also need seperate queues for pugs and premades because thats a different problem entirely.

Why would you need seperate ques if the solos that can enter have a full grasp of the game. (assuming they have 4 owned and mastered mechs)

MadcatX, on 13 January 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Of course I don't account for the people who uninstall and move on to something else because they are doing it for any number of reasons! Some arn't fans of mech sims. Others have moved on to whatever new game is being shown on the Steam Store. There are many reasons a new player would stop playing a game, especially a F2P game since they didn't pay a dime for it. To say that PuG squashing is the cause takes very little facts and a very large leap of faith.

PuG teams getting squashed most definitely happens and it would be nice if something were in place to alleviate that. I've seen some good ideas in this thread. But there is no need to instill a false sense of urgency through the use of losing new players in regards this issue.

I wouldn't say a large leap of faith.

Not sure if you follow sports or not, but lets assume you are learning how to play hockey, learning to skate and use a hockey still to control the puck. Now add 4 more new players to your team, and toss 5 NHL players on the other side, and tell them to not hold back.

Everytime the new guy get's close to touching the puck he gets ERASED by the NHL player who know's exactly what to do and how to do it without thinking.

The new players will just say **** it and move on VERY quickly.

That is CW Groups vs Pugs in a nutshell at this point in time.

Is it truly a leap of faith to link the EXIT of new players with the downright unfair grouping going on in the game's "best" mode?

[Triordinant]

MadcatX, on 13 January 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

Hawken was supposed to kill this game. Star Citizen was supposed to kill this game (Maybe it will when it gets released in 5 years, talk about scope bloat). ECM was supposed to kill this game. The original P2W claims for clan mechs was supposed to kill this game. 3PV was supposed to kill this game. Whatever meta people disagreed with was supposed to kill this game. Consumables was supposed to kill this game. Ghost heat was supposed to kill this game.

Unlike those examples, PGI actually acted upon the lack of a solo queue problem by making a solo queue because, you know, it was actually killing the game.

[Sandpit]

Lazor Sharp, on 13 January 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

once again, PGI needs to do everything possible to get New Players in a unit FIRST DAMN THING so that the vets can train then in team work, and NEVER LET THE NEWBIES BECOME Solo's and Puggies that then become stray cats and baby seals with Terrible, Horrible non team work habits, that the public Solo and puggie group Q's foster

faction chat
I keep saying this in every thread about this that pops up.

It's really that simple. We have to take a little ownership of the community and faction in this regard. Use faction chat to help new players, get them into groups with you and drop with them. Show them the strategies you use to be successful in CW. Help them with builds and mech selection.

The ones clamoring around the forums about "protecting baby seals" do none of this. They claim to care, but their actions say otherwise. Especially when they refer to them commonly as things like "scrubs" and such. The units doing the stuff I listed above seem to be flourishing. The ones that aren't and hold to those elitist attitudes and such not so much from the looks of it.

The solo players with those same attitudes who claim to have their best interest at heart seem to be doing nothing but concocting ways THEY can keep new players segregated so they can continue bashing on them themselves because once they join up with a unit or a regular group of players to drop with they stop being one of those seals.

You come after Marik's new players and you've gotta go through myself and several other vets to get to them. I'm not the world's greatest MWO player, but I'm definitely a lot more to handle than a new player in trial mechs.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Adding a couple lines to the ToS -
Any and all units caught sync dropping into the solo queue will be punished by removal of CW drop capability for no less than 30 and up to 90 days for the entirety of the unit's member base. Continuity to do so will result in removal of individual accounts from the game.

Cleared up.

And how do you propose to evidence that....

[Mystere]

Tyler Valentine, on 13 January 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

still haven't answered my question...

What question? This?

Tyler Valentine, on 13 January 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

For the time being wouldn't you like separate queues so that you could actually be challenged instead of walking over a bunch of guys with absolutely no chance?

I have already answered and hinted on that question probably over a hundred times:

I drop only solo and have been doing so since the very beginning.

I am not afraid of the "12 -man Bogeyman!".

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[Johnny Z]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Adding a couple lines to the ToS -
Any and all units caught sync dropping into the solo queue will be punished by removal of CW drop capability for no less than 30 and up to 90 days for the entirety of the unit's member base. Continuity to do so will result in removal of individual accounts from the game.

Cleared up.

Having any guild with a player banned for cheating unable to enter certain game play and have to restart a guild with the clean players would fix a lot of issues real quick.

If it were up to me this would be added inside a flash second lol.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 January 2016 - 11:58 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

What question? This?




I have already answered and hinted on that question probably over a hundred times:

I drop only solo and have been doing so since the very beginning.

I am not afraid of the "12 -man Bogeyman!".

so many people on here want to think their personal limitations are the limitations of others.

Obviously HE can't do it so you can't either

[Mystere]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Adding a couple lines to the ToS -
Any and all units caught sync dropping into the solo queue will be punished by removal of CW drop capability for no less than 30 and up to 90 days for the entirety of the unit's member base. Continuity to do so will result in removal of individual accounts from the game.

Cleared up.

How do you accurately differentiate between members of unit XYZ intentionally sync dropping and merely deciding to drop as solos, especially if there was only 1 planetary target? Or do you just automatically assume the worst and ban them?

[Jon Gotham]

Duke Nedo, on 13 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

For the best of the game I hope it's possible to introduce some degree of matchmaking to make 12v12 and pug v pug more common than pug farming without killing wait times. I can't believe it can't be done.

I can't understand why when there are 90+ queuing up on a planet on each side, they can't prio teams to tend to face other teams first. Maybe that might shut up the sad whining.
Just make a rudimentary MM that TRIES to match teams up-of any size even.
But then we would still be left with lots of anti social players who won't teamwork, leading to a weaker community-which an online multiplayer game desperately needs to thrive.

the only good solution is for the players to change their social/teamwork attitude to a better one, and we both know that will never happen:(

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

How do you accurately differentiate between members of unit XYZ intentionally sync dropping and merely deciding to drop as solos, especially if there was only 1 planetary target? Or do you just automatically assume the worst and ban them?

or better yet
How do you evidence RMA dropping with our new subunit RMA-2?
or the other sub-units we create
or any other unit and team out there.

It's not enforceable. It's not provable. It just quite simply doesn't solve any of the issues just like splitting the solo and group queues in PUB drops solved absolutely none of those issues for hte PUB queue, but that's all conveniently forgotten and not discussed because it doesn't fit into the whole "premade boogeyman" propaganda.