296 replies to this topic

[iLLcapitan]

It sure makes some sense, that most guarded compounds feature some sort of chokepoint and chokepoints are the most simple way to test the integrity of your push/fireline. It's not easy to push efficiently through a guarded chokepoint, nor is it easy to hold against a coordinated push. Both approaches require teamwork, which CW is all about.

Soultraxx, on 13 January 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

I say split the queue.

Units say they dont want to face PuGs or farm PuGs.
Most PuGs dont want to face units.

Wheres the problem?

Some units say (note I say SOME not all) "its hard mode/ read the pop up/ expect to lose"

But then they also say

"Bbbbbbut we dont like to farm PuGs"


Whats the old saying about having your cake and eating it?

Hypocrites.

The amount of butthurt over units playing their designated gamemode on this threat (and any other CW threat) is just staggering.

Edited by iLLcapitan, 14 January 2016 - 12:13 AM.

[Raubwurst]

Tschoo tschooo... Here comes the news train

Raubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

Wished CW Phase 3 would be there on the 19th January

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Raubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

Tschoo tschooo... Here comes the news train




Wished CW Phase 3 would be there on the 19th January

Confirming PGI have not learnt lessons of the past

[Kilo 40]

LordNothing, on 13 January 2016 - 11:13 PM, said:

i had an idea yesterday about default units. rather than have separate pug and unit queues, every faction has two default units, one for new players and one for everyone else (and possibly more if player counts allow).

every faction should be THE default unit of that faction. You pick Clan Wolf, then you automatically join the Clan Wolf unit that's ran by PGI. If you choose Steiner, then you automatically join the Steiner unit that's ran by PGI. Ect.. later if you decided to join a player ran unit, you could transfer over to them.

but we don't have that for..reasons.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Its sounds like Russ is more concerned with retaining the new players than keeping CW "hardcore".

Makes sense - if they are dedicating all their time and energy on CW now, why would they cater to the shrinking number of veteran players who want to gate out the new players?

We'll see. I thought his fix to map/mode voting was going to be a wiff, but I was wrong - it fixed the problems I was having with it. So patience and trust that he can fix this one too.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 14 January 2016 - 02:50 AM.

[LordNothing]

Kilo 40, on 14 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

every faction should be THE default unit of that faction. You pick Clan Wolf, then you automatically join the Clan Wolf unit that's ran by PGI. If you choose Steiner, then you automatically join the Steiner unit that's ran by PGI. Ect.. later if you decided to join a player ran unit, you could transfer over to them.

but we don't have that for..reasons.

any variation on that idea would work. but pgi doesnt like to implement working solutions, only whatever solution russ is in the mood for at the time.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Fen Tetsudo, on 14 January 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

Its sounds like Russ is more concerned with retaining the new players than keeping CW "hardcore".

Makes sense - if they are dedicating all their time and energy on CW now, why would they cater to the small number of veteran players who want to gate out the new players?

We'll see. I thought his fix to map/mode voting was going to be a wiff, but I was wrong - it fixed the problems I was having with it. So patience and trust that he can fix this one too.

All this will achieve is exactly what you don't want. The wait times for groups will be too long so they'll come looking in the solo que

[Raubwurst]

DV McKenna, on 14 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

Confirming PGI have not learnt lessons of the past

Which lessons am I missing?

[MechWarrior3671771]

DV McKenna, on 14 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

Confirming PGI have not learnt lessons of the past

Because "L2P noob!" worked out so well for CW last time around.

Someone hasn't learned from the past, and its not PGI.

[Kilo 40]

Raubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

Which lessons am I missing?

I think he's hinting at sync drops.

[MechWarrior3671771]

DV McKenna, on 14 January 2016 - 02:50 AM, said:

The wait times for groups will be too long so they'll come looking in the solo que

I would rather have longer wait times for a challenging match than spend 20 mins rolling over newbies. YMMV.

And if we don't stop the new player base from being run off, wait times will get too long anyway.

[Raubwurst]

Ah ok. That could indeed be a problem. But seriously: How low do you have to be to need syncdropping and stomping pugs...

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Raubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

Ah ok. That could indeed be a problem. But seriously: How low do you have to be to need syncdropping and stomping pugs...

.

It's not about sync dropping, all you can do is join a que of 12-x number of people and let the matchmaker pick.

The point is we are all here to play and no waiting 20 mins to get a turret game isn't acceptable. So those people will separate and join solo.
The bigger the number of unit players in the solo que the more chance MM will place some of them together.

The actual answers are much longer and require more work and less quick bandaids

Edited by DV McKenna, 14 January 2016 - 03:06 AM.

[LordNothing]

Fen Tetsudo, on 14 January 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

Its sounds like Russ is more concerned with retaining the new players than keeping CW "hardcore".

Makes sense - if they are dedicating all their time and energy on CW now, why would they cater to the shrinking number of veteran players who want to gate out the new players?

We'll see. I thought his fix to map/mode voting was going to be a wiff, but I was wrong - it fixed the problems I was having with it. So patience and trust that he can fix this one too.

i have nothing against gating so long as there are gates for all. gate the planets so you have noob planets that dont get any points and elite planets that offer huge rewards for elites, and some in the middle too. then let the players sort themselves out.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

iLLcapitan, on 13 January 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

Ok some people have to get things straight.

"Dropgroups" or "premades" aren't the bogeyman, they are the audience for which CW is mainly set.

When we drop as a group, we long for other groups to come up against. You should behold the disappointment on TS, if we see only pugs on the opposing team. I don't think any halfway competent player enjoys a pugstomp, you do your job and get the cbills. I haven't met any competitive group yet, that seeks to drop against pugs. Pugstomps make you sloppy.

OP I really think you got good intentions on this and I feel for the fresh meat too. But I don't think we should try to cure the symptoms, when the root of the problem is the unfinished state of CW. Hopefully phase 3 will bring more players and groups back to the table. Splitting the queue at the current state will simply kill the gamemode. Mabye implement some barrier (NoTrialsAllowed! Mandatory Introduction!) to make people realize the competitive nature of CW.

The above is true but not in all cases.

The problem is that good units with good players do enjoy playing challenging hard fought games of CW and are bored of or dislike pubstomps. But you also have units of bads like SWOL where they actually enjoy pubstomping and will talk **** to the pugs afterwards and do other lame tactics like legging pugs at the end of the game and refusing to kill them. Stuff like that is what gives CW 12 mans a bad name.

[Carcass23]

A few random thought to add, not sure even if any have been suggested.

I like the idea of limiting premade units allowed to take part in a battle to a single lance. The total size of the unit could be large but limiting drops to a single lance per player run unit gives it all some variation. Fill the rest from the house unit. So if Davion is attacking a planet, they can have 1 premade lance on the team, the rest are composed of House Davion regulars. The premade can still get credit for the takeover and it's not a pugstomp unless the premade can pull everyone together. If the matchmaker cannot find regulars to enter the battle, allow a second diffrent premade unit in to form a second lance, rinse and repeat.

Another option is to limit certain planets to certain playstyles based on the strategic value of the planet, breaking up the map choices for attack where the House designates which planets are;

12 vs 12 Pug battles - Just like it says, if you are attacking or defending. It's gonna be pug. These battles will have low wait times as long as the pugs are playing.

premade 1 lance- One professional unit allowed to do battle on these planets. The rest is filled with pugs.

premade 2 lance - Same as above but 8 man premade is max.

premade 3 lance - The most critical spot the house wishes the fighting to be taking place. 12 vs 12 premade vs premade

As I said, random thoughts. Take it for what it is.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Quote

But I don't think we should try to cure the symptoms, when the root of the problem is the unfinished state of CW.

How long do you think it will take PGI to "finish" CW? 6 months? 2 years? I don't think we have that kind of time.

Sure, fix the root of the problem, but meantime we have to find a way to keep the new playerbase from ragequiting. All that advice about joining a unit, building a mastered dropdeck, getting on faction comms, etc is good, but that also takes time. We need to keep the new players hooked so they stick around long enough to do all that.

My premade vs premade drops are challenging and fun. My solo vs solo drops are challenging and fun. Its the premade vs solo drops that are the problem. They are not challenging and fun. The steam crowd is not stupid - they play lots of other competitive games, and they know that pitting solo newbs against premade vets is dumb.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Asian Tupac, on 14 January 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

The problem is that good units with good players do enjoy playing challenging hard fought games of CW and are bored of or dislike pubstomps. But you also have units of bads like SWOL where they actually enjoy pubstomping and will talk **** to the pugs afterwards and do other lame tactics like legging pugs at the end of the game and refusing to kill them. Stuff like that is what gives CW 12 mans a bad name.

Yup. MS is doing this too. This week I saw them spawncamp new players in trial mechs. The 2nd 3rd and 4th wave. And their leadership shrugged it off and ran to the moderators when I called them on it.

I'll have zero sympathy if the changes shaft those kind of people hard. They were warned they needed to share their toys, they chose to behave like brats about it. So now the decision will be made for them.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 14 January 2016 - 03:43 AM.

[Bobzilla]

The only reason pugs are allowed in CW was to give groups someone to fight, decrease wait times. An increase in population is only helpful if it's units/groups. So split queue is conterpoductive. It sucks but its true.

[iLLcapitan]

Fen Tetsudo, on 14 January 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

How long do you think it will take PGI to "finish" CW? 6 months? 2 years? I don't think we have that kind of time.

Sure, fix the root of the problem, but meantime we have to find a way to keep the new playerbase from ragequiting. All that advice about joining a unit, building a mastered dropdeck, getting on faction comms, etc is good, but that also takes time. We need to keep the new players hooked so they stick around long enough to do all that.

My premade vs premade drops are challenging and fun. My solo vs solo drops are challenging and fun. Its the premade vs solo drops that are the problem. They are not challenging and fun. The steam crowd is not stupid - they play lots of other competitive games, and they know that pitting solo newbs against premade vets is dumb.

The only one who sounds like he just ragequitted a stomp by MS is you btw.
What makes you think you are in a position to speak for "the new playerbase"?

I'm waiting till your premade is stomped by another premade, for you to start spamming the forums again about inequality.
You don't seem to realise, that a single queue won't match you against people of your skill either way.