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Alpine Peak Spawn Locations?


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#61 McBrahman

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:47 AM

View Postsmokefield, on 14 January 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

They said the map will not be changed in any way..just the spawns !

Best ideas are the ones that make full use of the map and terrain and give the possibility of scenarios that use every road/valley/hill...even if some are less probably than others. those ideas where its clear from the start that one strategy will be used all the time are bad...cause it is the same as the situation we have now. Please have in mind this when you want to propose something. If you want a better map that is...

thanks.


As the mounten is bad tarrain and place somehow in the middel you have to avoid half of the map to get it working.

And its not bad if players know what to do if they recognize where they started. thats giving structure and leading to teamplay. And we dont have that sitiuation right now and thats bad because no one knows where to go and so strange routs are taken (e.g. along the bottom of the hill in a long track while enemy is on top).

I guess i know what u want. You want multiple options per spawn triple-pair. But to much options (more than max 2) is too much for puplic play.
And in generell this is not a question of startingpoints. thats a question weather the tarrain, the shape is specially made for it. Here it clearly isnt.

#62 smokefield

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:34 AM

uhm..i have posted my proposals and i think they are pretty decent and give the opportunity for a lot of strategies and still using most of the map. have a look some page back...

#63 DeRazer

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 05:55 AM

Please consider (not for this map but for ALL maps) making some coding effort.

1. Having drop ZONES.
2. Letting each LANCE select on the Ready Screen where within the ZONE they want to be dropped.
3. This REQUIRES someone to adopt command of the Lance. No Lance leader - no selection.
4. This adds to the "Thinking Man's" element and actually encourages some tactics.
5. If you don't pick a spot - then you drop in a standard location.



#64 Kjudoon

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 06:35 AM

Something to consider when choosing new spawn and capture points as well as map use.

Posted Image

In my experience,
85% of all action occurs inside the purple line.
98% of all action occurs inside the blue line.
Anything outside the red line is either inaccessable or is never used.

We need reasons to go between the purple and blue lines.

The 3 line between E and G is the highest point on the map, but can only be accessed by only a few mechs. It is an excellent defensive position but cannot be used in Conquest or Assault as you cannot protect the lower base, and there is no purpose for going up there.

If any significant changes are done to the map, I would love to see them expand out into the 1 line and the O line with a little extra purpose to do something back there, and out to at least the 15 line to make much of that area functional

Anyway, I want reason to force fights into these remote places. Please consider something to make that happen. :)

#65 pbiggz

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 07:33 AM

There is nothing spawn points can do to change this map short of having everyone spawn on the south side of the map as far from victory hill as possible. This map needs serious love, and victory hill needs to become inaccessible.

#66 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 08:47 AM

going to agree with TigerLilly on this one

#67 Shirow

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:04 AM

@Tina

Is there a video showcasing the new map Polar Highlands⁉️

Edited by Shirow, 15 January 2016 - 11:04 AM.


#68 Reno Blade

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:08 AM

I like TigerLily's maps quite a lot.

I was thinking of the possible ways to reduce the walking time without leaving out most of the map's center (current mountain main area), but in the end, this is what I thought would be most fun to play.

Conquest with the least changes.
Most of the battle will still take around I7, but now you have a reason to be on the H7 area (one base) or the L7 and L9 areas.
In addition the Cap points have LoS to other cap points while still giving enough cover or range to not get hammered by LRM/ERLL from these caps.
I moved the Light/Med spawn to the north, so they can still have their battle there, but also have a cap point to actually fight for. If blue reinforce the northern cap, then red can capitalize the southern part.
Posted Image

For Skirmish, I settled for the lower half of the map to use most of the smaller hills in the J,K and L lines.
Having the south teams closer to the enemy gives the ability to scout and snipe already before the rest of the team regroups and deny the enemy to advance.
Posted Image

Assault was a tie of the 5-line or the south area again. But when I remembered the Com-tower battles of the past, I decided that this is too one-sided in the northern area and decided for the south hills again.
The teams spawn far enough away to ignore the bases, but close enough to defend if needed.
Where the teams clash will be decided by coordinated movement, but probably K9 or L9 around the hills with supporting long range from 8 and 10 line around it.
Posted Image

Edited by Reno Blade, 15 January 2016 - 11:12 AM.


#69 Tina Benoit

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:16 AM

Spoke to designers about the random spawn points idea and here is the reply:
Random spawns will result in someone being placed in a position that is not favorable to their 'Mech. This is an issue already brought up by the community such as "Assaults are spawning too far back." Random spawn locations will exasperate this issue. Our main goal in gathering feedback is to get specific locations in which you think the lances should spawn.

View PostRaubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

Without making specific suggestions: I would like to (somehow) keep the conquest points in a tight cluster. This gave the map a special play style in conquest, which I like.

As a general question: Is there a way, that the community can vote for different suggestions made?
Tina, could you open a poll with the ideas out of this thread, which Most acceptable by PGI, where we could vote for our preferred spawns? (For Conquest, Assault and Skirmish)
Would let us see which variants are even possible to get through you and putting them into one post could let the people see the idea, whichout browsing multiple pages. Additional you won't need to &quot;count likes&quot; to see which ideas are liked by the community <img src="http://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png"


Lots and lots of different feedback for sure, I agree Raub, after gathering everything I will share it with the designers, they'll pick, say.. the top 3 to 5 options for each mode and then we'll do a poll for you guys pick the final choice, sounds good?

View PostShirow, on 15 January 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

@Tina

Is there a video showcasing the new map Polar Highlands⁉️


Little Sneak Peeks of it was posted yesterday on Instagram, take a look: https://www.instagra...hwarrioronline/

Also a beautiful image of the Warhammer standing in Polar Highlands on one of the front page large banners of http://mwomercs.com/

#70 Raubwurst

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:31 AM


View PostTina Benoit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Lots and lots of different feedback for sure, I agree Raub, after gathering everything I will share it with the designers, they'll pick, say.. the top 3 to 5 options for each mode and then we'll do a poll for you guys pick the final choice, sounds good?


Sounds very good, thank you :)

Edited by Raubwurst, 15 January 2016 - 11:33 AM.


#71 DivineEvil

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:33 AM

View PostTina Benoit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Lots and lots of different feedback for sure, I agree Raub, after gathering everything I will share it with the designers, they'll pick, say.. the top 3 to 5 options for each mode and then we'll do a poll for you guys pick the final choice, sounds good?

Yes, sounds perfect. We miss the voting polls for a lot of questions, gonna be a good opportunity. Thank you!

Edited by DivineEvil, 15 January 2016 - 11:33 AM.


#72 Kjudoon

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:41 PM

For the love of little green pickles force mechs to walk a bit to get to the fight. I don't care as much if they come pre-deathballed or not from spawn, but force them to search for the enemy.

Ideally the best solution would be to randomize 3-7 different spawn points so you could never tell for sure where your enemy spawned and you MUST search for them.

Example
"Current" spawn points
Old grouped spawn points
One side "Current" one side grouped (reverasable)
At least 2 Intermixed spawn points (alternating teams in a clockwise fashion but all approximately equidistant from each other)

This way no matter what you cannot just do the 'same old thing' if you cannot tell where your enemy is until the shots start flying.

Same goes for getting random visibility blocking snow and dynamic night cycles Improvements that are very much looked forward to by those who want to make sure a numbing consistancy is not possible and players must prepare for the unknown. Something sadly lacking in this game right now strategically and tactically.

#73 smokefield

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 01:01 PM

@ renoblade


I disagree a lot with both skirmish and assault. more than half of the map will be 100% unused. instead of that i very much prefer to let it as it is now :)

#74 Too Much Love

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:58 AM

View PostTina Benoit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Spoke to designers about the random spawn points idea and here is the reply:
Random spawns will result in someone being placed in a position that is not favorable to their 'Mech. This is an issue already brought up by the community such as &quot;Assaults are spawning too far back.&quot; Random spawn locations will exasperate this issue.
Tina, thank you for the feedback on that issue. But let me please rise this question once again. I can't agree with the given explanation.

They say "random spawns will result in someone being placed in a position that is not favorable to their 'Mech". Do they know that in the majority of maps there are always a lance in a "bad position"? So the common strategy is to quikly go to that position, quikly kill those 4 mechs and get advantage. Everybody knows where this "unlucky" lance is located. That is one of the reason why the primary tactics in MWO is so-called "nascar".

I wonder, if the spawn points are random, will there be a possibility to do that? Now we simply learnt where to go to find the "unfavorable" lance, but if all spawn locations are random we won't be able to do that, at least, it won't be that easy.

I'm not saying that those spawn points should be completely random. But PGI can design several variants of spawn points for each map in every mode and that will promote diversity of strategies.

#75 Raubwurst

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 02:24 AM

View PostTina Benoit, on 15 January 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Spoke to designers about the random spawn points idea and here is the reply:
Random spawns will result in someone being placed in a position that is not favorable to their 'Mech. This is an issue already brought up by the community such as &amp;quot;Assaults are spawning too far back.&amp;quot; Random spawn locations will exasperate this issue.


One possibility would be to define a couple of spawnpoints and letting each lance drop on a randomly choosen one (likely only one choosen on a specific side of the map to prevent teams from starting next to each other) and another one would be to define specific areas in which a random coordinate is choosen to put the 'Mechs in.

The random spawnpoints are something which are heared quite often and sounds like something that could be great (although it could go terribly wrong).
Would there be a possibility of giving this idea a try? On the PTS? Or would it be too much work for something which could go wrong? :)

#76 Wildstreak

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 08:06 AM

The problem is more than just spawn points. While big maps are desirable, no matter where you put the spawns, there are going to be parts of the map that are unused and that is a big shame. So I think we also need to Zone off areas of the map for each mode, doing this allows use of the whole map, each mode happens in a different area and everything gets more interesting. This holds true for other big maps, Tourmaline Desert, New Forest Colony, Crimson Strait, Terra Therma, New River City.

Here is my image showing an example of how Alpine Peaks could be zoned off by mode.

Posted Image

Each mode happens in a different 'zone' so each mode is not only different by mode but also by terrain used of the same map. Through all modes, the whole map is used.

Currently,
  • Conquest still suffers from current Gamma point being too far away from the others, Sigma sees little action also, everything happens around Epsilon, Kappa and Theta.
  • Assault rarely sees base captures compared to some other maps and when it does happen, even Lights are hard pressed to counter the cap.
  • Skirmish has the combined problem of spawns and Mech weights being in certain lances. With Assaults in Charlie, the southern team has to avoid the hill to group and survive forcing a tough ridge fight in the 7/8 columns.

Benefits of zoning:
  • Smaller area allows slower Mechs to participate without being left behind.
  • Each area still has enough open space and cover for different roles (LRMs, sniping, brawling).
  • Still plenty of room for faster Mechs to run about in.
  • Conquest zone has mostly level terrain broken up by hills.
  • Assault zone allows base capture attempts by faster Mechs but prevents Nascaring around center unless someone goes outside it such as up the hill and through there but it will take time. Opposition fast Mechs should make it back from where the fight is to stop a cap.
  • Skirmish area has a few height problems but of the 3 modes, would work best there, high areas benefit snipers and LRMs, still some places brawlers can move through to get close to people.
  • Whole map is used over all 3 modes. Each mode feels different not only by mode rules but due to being concentrated in different map areas. Each mode will not fixate around the same features compared to how matches now are so fixated on the center and hill area.

It is like having 3 maps in one.

Edited by Wildstreak, 16 January 2016 - 08:09 AM.


#77 zudukai

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 08:45 AM

View PostWildstreak, on 16 January 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

The problem is more than just spawn points. While big maps are desirable, no matter where you put the spawns, there are going to be parts of the map that are unused and that is a big shame. So I think we also need to Zone off areas of the map for each mode, doing this allows use of the whole map, each mode happens in a different area and everything gets more interesting. This holds true for other big maps, Tourmaline Desert, New Forest Colony, Crimson Strait, Terra Therma, New River City.

Here is my image showing an example of how Alpine Peaks could be zoned off by mode.

Posted Image

Benefits of zoning:

It is like having 3 maps in one.

Grid J-11 -12 need skirmish access as a concealed brawling counter to the sniper overlook.

good idea for spawns btw.

Edited by zudukai, 16 January 2016 - 08:52 AM.


#78 Mystere

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 10:15 AM

View PostTina Benoit, on 13 January 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

- Conquest points should be more spread around.


This is the only thing I would like.

As for that mountain that a whole lot of people complain about, it is only a problem for those who insist on fighting there ... because no one really has to.

And since we're talking about Alpine, why not use it in Community Warfare and set it up to be like this.

And since I'm at it, I suggest you might as well read that whole thread. Posted Image

Edited by Mystere, 16 January 2016 - 10:20 AM.


#79 Tiamat of the Sea

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 12:17 PM

Alright, so. Here goes nothing.

So, I have here three sets of spawn setups. I like the 'semi-randomized spawn points' idea that's been proposed earlier, which is why I've done this- one could be chosen, or all three could be chosen.

The number of points on a symbol relates- so all the four-point stars match diamonds, the five-point stars match pentagons, and the six-point stars match hexagons for position. For each mode, I'll run down the separate sets of spawn/base/extractor locations in four-five-six order.

Assault
Spoiler


Conquest
Spoiler


Skirmish
Spoiler


I think the main thing here is that a map this big really benefits from the use of a rotating set of locations even within a given mode. This is especially underlined in this map and in the new Forest Colony- the current Forest Colony has huge swaths that are largely unused (Everything J line and South of it, everything North of the middle of E line, the I4-G6 area, anything East of the 10 line) except occasionally as routes to get to the actual area where things usually happen (F8-H9).

Both Assault and Conquest are good opportunities to make each game really different and prompt the use of multiple different areas of the maps, but aren't really used for that currently.

#80 HollowBassman

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Posted 16 January 2016 - 04:37 PM

I know there is a push to set spawns in a way that taking the mountain is undesirable, but I think it would be better to embrace the possibility that it will be the go-to spot no matter where the spawns are located. The following is my attempt to give each spawn a relatively equal chance of getting to either the face or the backside trails of the mountain.

Skirmish:
Posted Image

Having the lightest lances at F12 and K8, heaviest lances at D10 and J5, and the middle lances at C7 and H3 allows for battles in front of, behind, and/or on the mountain.





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