778 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 14 January 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Ahem! Did you ever consider that those people were honest, but someone outside of that conversation will do so?

Oh! You did not think of that?

I'm starting to understand why the goons, b33f, MS, and others do what they do. It seems to be the only way to show PGI they were wrong and get them to change something.

I guess if breaking the solo queues does the trick, you'll see those players swarming all over it, just like they've done to the other exploits over the years.

PGI has been shown, warned, begged, pleaded with, etc. about what's going to happen and how it's going to hurt CW, MWO, PGI, the player base, and the community overall and they still go forward with "need ot think of everyone".

The islands memes should be funny at least. They're always the most entertaining because I promise you this, you've seen nothing in the way of a meltdown if Russ announces in a townhall that they're going to actually charge units cbills to recruit.

I might not even be trolly enough to wade into that sh*t storm. But, again, PGI has been shown this, they aren't going to listen until it gets loud enough or it finally bites them in the a**. The only problem is, if all those hardcore players have to go through this crap again, I doubt there will be enough interest or goodwill left to rebuild it again.

Deathlike, on 14 January 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

I'm not in the business of telling people to join units - rather they join the faction hub to enjoy the company.. and only IF AND ONLY IF they are interested in joining a unit... that's up to them. We simply need more bodies to drop in CW, with better management instead of getting such management "after the fact" (like, when you can't help the guy set up his dropdeck to work with the rest of the team).

oddly enough
I had a PM today asking about recruiting, I'll paste my exact response below. I feel the same way about units. I tell players all the time there's no need to join a unit to come hang out and drop with us in Marik. Meet some of the players, learn about how the different units operate before you jump into one.
[color=#959595]You don't have to join a specific unit if you'd like to come play in Marik. [/color][color=#959595] There's no pressure but just about every unit we have is actively recruiting [/color]

[color=#959595]housemarik.enjinvoice.com is our TS server info, no password, but I wouldn't come in wearing Liao tags right now as that's our current border rival lol[/color]

[color=#959595]You can also keep your RL unit and still bring it along with you to Marik in game [/color]

[color=#959595]It's a pretty easy process either way you want to go but I'll be more than happy to help you out any way I can[/color]

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

Yeah, see, I'm all for this.

But it's a chicken and egg thing. We ABSOLUTELY need better management tools. But we also need a system for helping the throngs of solo players not have a horrible experience, and "join the faction hub" as it stands isn't very practical for most folks for a variety of reasons.

They're just trying CW, seeing "Wow, that really sucks getting wafflestomped into oblivion by obviously premade teams" and bailing on it pretty much just as fast.

Without the numbers, CW sucks for everyone. So, a middle ground needs to be found.

Lobbies
there you go
This is the ONLY team based multiplayer game I've ever played that prevents you from talking to other players in the game.
completely
totally
unless you're in CW or a match.

Why the hell have a friends list if you can't even just hang out and talk to them while tinkering in the mech lab?

This is what I mean in regards to social tools
VOIP
Chat
Lobbies

stuff liek this is always tossed in as an afterthought by PGI. None of these are given any serious consideration or effort. The buggy, clunky, and unintuitive interfaces are evidence enough to see that. PGI has NEVER tried to put in social tools to help facilitate CW.

Their idea of playing MWO in the "best way possible" is log in, spend your money, hit launch, repeat until bored, come back tomorrow.

That is what MWO really boils down to. The only community and congregation points are built outside of MWO and PGI's websites by the players themselves. Not PGI.

I guess these kinds of things should have made decisions like this less surprising but still, I can't see how a company dedicated solely to MMO multiplayer online team based game thinks this kind of attitude towards community and teams is "good".


We're holding a 100k world championship!
(no groups allowed though. you can only participate if you're a solo player with no unit affiliation and no known teammates or friends on your team)

[Wing 0]

So.. Where do I go to get my 1200$ back? if russ wanted to fk us over and changing the main concept of what Community Warfare is then he should pay back the people he double crossed. We have a PUB QUEUE. WE DONT NEED A SOLO QUEUE IN CW. IF YOU PLAY SOLO IN CW, PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK. This was asked about awhile back and they said It wouldn't work. so what makes them think the steam scrubs going to make things work now..

[Wintersdark]

pwnface, on 14 January 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

We don't know that the solo and unit queues would be on different attack lanes. Currently, every faction has an attack and defend option against every faction that borders it. Is PGI going to make it so that there are 2 attack/defend options per border? Unlikely. Will they make it so that only units can defend and only solos can attack or will they close off an entire border to one queue?

There are a lot of unknowns here, I guess we'll find out. I think closing off attack / defend lanes to unit queue doesn't make sense because then nobody will be able to get tags on the planet. Having the lanes open to everyone but simply splitting the queue invites a lot of exploitation.

If your faction is winning all the unit queue battles on a planet but is losing all the solo queue battles, it will be incredibly difficult to take a planet. People would sign on alt accounts to win matches in solo queue to help the overall conquest of said planet.

PGI is reducing attack/defend lanes. It won't be like now, with them against each border, there will only be a couple per faction. That was covered in the phase three talks, that there will be some system for players determining attack direction. I don't remember the details because I didn't care much, I was most interested in just a couple attack lanes. Having a solo and unit attack lane just seems to make sense, as opposed to ~2 mixed lanes.

Wing 0, on 14 January 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

So.. Where do I go to get my 1200$ back? if russ wanted to fk us over and changing the main concept of what Community Warfare is then he should pay back the people he double crossed. We have a PUB QUEUE. WE DONT NEED A SOLO QUEUE IN CW. IF YOU PLAY SOLO IN CW, PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK. This was asked about awhile back and they said It wouldn't work. so what makes them think the steam scrubs going to make things work now..

Because e current system doesn't work. Cut out the solo players and pops are too low, but the current system is just bad. Everyone knows that, and everyone on both sides complains about it.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Check out @russ_bullock's Tweet: https://twitter.com/...2447023105?s=09

It's mandatory with split queues to avoid rampant abuse.

Holy Cannoli! Look at this gem:

Quote

... well for one the main unit could lose valuable MC tags and we are introducing a new Cbill recruitment cost that grows with size

So units will be penalized monetarily for recruiting and growing, in what was originally intended as the unit-focused section of the game?

Brilliant! What a masterpiece!

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...2447023105?s=09

charging units to recruit....

I just saw. It's ******* hilarious and tragic at the same time.

[FupDup]

FupDup, on 14 January 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

There won't be enough popcorn in the world to keep up with the tears that shall ensue.

After lurking for a few pages, my prediction appears to have come true.



Carry on, Forumwarriors, carry on.

[Wing 0]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Because e current system doesn't work. Cut out the solo players and pops are too low, but the current system is just bad. Everyone knows that, and everyone on both sides complains about it.

And their new system idea WILL FAIL. Just like they did with the vote system in Public queue which is garbage and it is why I don't play Pub Queue. I got my free mech from that POS mode. Now I aint playing in that mode for awhile. No I don't solo in CW because me and many others are doing it the way IT WAS MENT TO BE. NO MATCMAKER. NO MERCY! TO HELL WITH YOU PGI!

Edited by Wing 0, 14 January 2016 - 07:51 PM.

[Johnny Z]

It has been said since closed beta that units would be able to capture planets and make income from them in some way. Also that units would have to pay their unit players out of the coffers.

This is common knowledge since closed beta why such a big deal is being made of it? That unit coffer costs would increase with unit size makes sense...

Have any details been given as to if the queue splitting is just the addition of 4 v 4 or something like the regular and group queues???

Edited by Johnny Z, 14 January 2016 - 07:52 PM.

[Mystere]

Bonger Bob, on 14 January 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

I for one welcome the changes , and yes, ill have the petty "I told you so" moment of smug satisfaction now, i did say IT WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY , im shocked though, its happening a lot sooner than i thought it would.

I don't think you fully grasp who gets to say the final "I told you so!". Some people are playing chess and are several moves ahead of you. Niccolo Machiavelli would be proud. <maniacal >

[Johnny Z]

Why are there complaints about unit economy being added to the game??????????

[pwnface]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

PGI is reducing attack/defend lanes. It won't be like now, with them against each border, there will only be a couple per faction. That was covered in the phase three talks, that there will be some system for players determining attack direction. I don't remember the details because I didn't care much, I was most interested in just a couple attack lanes. Having a solo and unit attack lane just seems to make sense, as opposed to ~2 mixed lanes.

So basically if Kurita decides to declare war on Marik but unfortunately Marik isn't one of our attack options because PGI wanted to reduce attack lanes we are totally SOL?

Seriously? PGI is going to dictate which factions were allowed to attack? This sounds like a really stupid idea.

[Johnny Z]

pwnface, on 14 January 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

So basically if Kurita decides to declare war on Marik but unfortunately Marik isn't one of our attack options because PGI wanted to reduce attack lanes we are totally SOL?

Seriously? PGI is going to dictate which factions were allowed to attack? This sounds like a really stupid idea.

Ok now I know where the island joke came from. You guys have not been keeping up with anything it seems. faction attack lanes will be voted on by the faction players. Maybe there is a rank bonus or what ever also to make some players votes worth more.

[AEgg]

pwnface, on 14 January 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

So basically if Kurita decides to declare war on Marik but unfortunately Marik isn't one of our attack options because PGI wanted to reduce attack lanes we are totally SOL?

Seriously? PGI is going to dictate which factions were allowed to attack? This sounds like a really stupid idea.

Their phase 3 presentation suggested that players would vote on their attack lane, but it was only a few seconds so it didn't specify how.

[Mystere]

pwnface, on 14 January 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

I'm having serious regrets about purchasing a year of premium time recently. The apathy shown by PGI for their game is actually quite depressing.

If you pay much closer attention, you'll eventually realize that it's not apathy. It's actually desperation.

[Imperius]

I can't wait till they cry thier name isn't on the planets.

Oh how randoms and tt players have killed this game. TT cries timeline forces us to recive useless mech after useless mech. Pugs cry they hate teams, gets every aspect of team play removed.

I think solo queue should be just Deathmatch since after all they don't like teams. It would be interesting to see how long they last.

[pwnface]

AEgg, on 14 January 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Their phase 3 presentation suggested that players would vote on their attack lane, but it was only a few seconds so it didn't specify how.

That seems pretty reasonable actually.

[MischiefSC]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Please, in as non ranty a way as possible (I'm not pushing Russ's solution as ideal! Just trying to be as impatrtial as I can and learn here!)

What is the alternative? There just aren't enough unit players to make CW really work well.

There are LOTS of solo players who want to play.

The existing solo experience (for those who don't have a lot of experience, I get its awesome for people like me) is awful.

CW needs more bodies. Telling people to just join units doesn't work. It's never worked, will never work. Eventually, a good number will join units, particularly as they learn that controlling worlds as a unit has actual payouts. But those people need to stick around and play long enough to do that.

Charging people to join units is stupid. It is. But its necessary to prevent seal clubbing in a split queue scenario. The cost would be miniscule for small units (where it doesn't really matter if they do), and large units will have no trouble funding it, if not abusing things.

What better solution do you propose?

There are 3 basic groups in the same pool in CW.

1 competitive players - they want a system they can min/max to win and not be punished for winning.

2 semi-competitive players - they want to feel rewarded for their effort and like it has a purpose but know they're not going to be winning wars against group 1, but want a reason to play anyway.

3 Scrubs/Nubs/Solo4lyfe - they don't want constantly stomped by groups 1 and 2 because they are bad but still want to feel like they're contributing and involved.

First step:

Go ahead and make a tag-less queue. It doesn't get LP rewards above rank 6 and winning there just gives active matches for your faction perks (long tom strikes, etc) to call upon. You don't take worlds but you provide benefits to your faction. You could do a tour while tagless and pick up a couple of mech bays from every faction. That's 20 free mech bays! At rank 6 you can choose to create a unit tag for yourself for FREE and participate in the Unit Queue. This pays better, is like 'getting out of training' and gives a way for tagless players to get into matches with units in them to get seen and recruited.

Second step:

Give end of match rewards based on who you fight. Units get a PSR-style ranking based on total members plus their win%. So if you're in MS you automatically are 'valued' at the MS PSR. This doesn't affect who you fight, it affects how much the people fighting you make. Beating a 12man of MS gets you a 300k bonus for example, but it's valued at an individual level so a mixed drop of tags will be valued based on what units they belong to. This rewards you highly for playing against unit 12mans. Units like 228 would make way more cbills by chasing down MS 12mans than by stomping mixed drops. Units will chase each other because it pays better.

Third step: Loyalists can open and close fronts for their faction by vote once per week.

Fourth step: One queue per faction border; attack and defend combined. You win the round the next round is fighting over the losers world. This means two units don't miss each other by both dropping in attack queue. If you're in CJF and you're dropping against FRR, you're playing against everyone in FRR dropping on the CJF border.

Fifth step: Forget tags. Remove tags. You get a payout based on how many wins you got on a world that flipped. If you're a merc you get a 1x payout 72 hours after the world is taken if it's still in the faction you took it for. If you're in a loyalist unit you get a tiny weekly reward based on the wins you contributed to the taking of the world. This promotes taking and holding territory without rewarding mercs for flipping around; it also rewards loyalists more. You only get your factions borders to fight on.

Sixth step: You remove the whole 'IS drops on any IS defensive border vs Clans' and introduce 1 "Contested" world per day. Picked on a random Clan border in ADDITION to that factions regular contested world that planet is the 'Tukayyid of the day' where any IS and any Clan can drop there. It's an extra Clan/IS border world that can flip per day and the rewards from step Five apply to everyone who won matches there. You help flip it for your side and you get small weekly rewards for them keeping it.

There you go. Everyone is happy, CW is way better, rainbows puppies and kittens for everyone.

[Ghogiel]

Why not both?
Drop tags and farm solo. Join groups and play in the other queue. Best of both for me.

[pwnface]

Ghogiel, on 14 January 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

Why not both?
Drop tags and farm solo. Join groups and play in the other queue. Best of both for me.

I think they are trying to make a barrier for this by making it cost c-bills to join a unit.

[Mystere]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Charging people to join units is stupid. It is. But its necessary to prevent seal clubbing in a split queue scenario. The cost would be miniscule for small units (where it doesn't really matter if they do), and large units will have no trouble funding it, if not abusing things.

Hold a second!

If unit-tagged players will not be able to drop in the solo queue, then how will they be able to seal club? And in turn, why would you want to discourage units from recruiting if the goal is to stop seal clubbing.

Either I am missing something, or this thing does not compute.