101 replies to this topic

[p4r4g0n]

Tywren, on 22 January 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

And what makes you think this map is suitable for new players still using trial mechs? Just look at some of the gear people are suggesting should be brought. ECM, only 2 trials have ECM, and one is an Arctic Cheetah that boats small lasers; Radar Derp, 15,000 GXP plus 6,000,000 C-Bills, and oh yeah can't be equipped to a trial mech; 4X zoom, all the same flaws as Radar Derp. The only piece new players have easy access to is AMS, and that's a double edged sword, because if someone fires off at a target, and see their LRM swarm cut down by multiple AMS they now know where the cluster of enemy units are.

This kind of map is designed for players who have had time to build up full stables of mastered mechs, with all the modules needed to tweak them out. This is a map with CW level gear, and player experience requirements, it isn't noob friendly. Keeping it in Quick Play is going to be an NPE killer, so move it to CW where it's better suited, and where people have been begging for a new map without the focus on choke points.

If I understand you correctly, you are now contending that PH should be removed from Quick Play because it is not new player friendly and not because you feel that all Quick Play maps should be designed around facilitating quick battles and skirmishes that require no tactics or thought?

Realistically, the only new player friendly environments in MWO at this time are the tutorials and the Academy. Whether Quick Play or Faction Play, new players with trial mechs or unoptimized mechs are at an inherent disadvantage regardless of what map / mode is in play.

As far as PH is concerned, I strongly disagree that the only way you can play PH is with a fully tricked out mech.

[Michal R]

First map where you must think and play with team. There is no way to play Rambo style.
Light scouts, medium help heavy, heavy and assaults do what they made for.
We need more map like this

[oldradagast]

Michal R, on 23 January 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

First map where you must think and play with team. There is no way to play Rambo style.
Light scouts, medium help heavy, heavy and assaults do what they made for.
We need more map like this

And if you're in the solo queue, the need to "play with a team" basically translates into "if you didn't randomly pull a good team of PUG's, you die."

This map stinks. The easy wins with LRM's + NARC or other support is lame enough, but this map is brutal on random groups and heavily punishes even small mistakes. Carrying a game becomes much harder than normal on this map, and you are heavily dependent upon the quality of your team, much more so than on normal maps. Since you have no control over that in the solo queue, it makes for a maddening experience.

OZHomerOZ, on 22 January 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Good map, forces teamwork or die thingie

Too bad people can't pick there team in solo drops, which is the biggest reason why this is a fail map. It "forces teamwork" in a game mode where you have no control over your team. That is fail, by definition.

[oldradagast]

AnimeFreak40K, on 22 January 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

I have said this before (and I have seen it said by others), but I am thoroughly convinced that those people that say Polar Highlands is a terrible map don't know how to play this game and/or do not appreciate the finer nuances of this game.

Oh, look - another "anyone who disagrees with me must be a bad player" post. Classic bread and butter of this forum.

No, I say Polar Highlands is a bad map for some very simple reasons:
- It heavily rewards long-range combat, such as laser vomit, which the game already has in an excessive amount. Yes, you "can brawl" but based on the insane number of games I've been in on this map since it came out, brawling is still a piss-poor strategy on this map.
- LRM's + a bit of scouting + NARC = free kills. Those cute little gullies and trenches are worthless in those situations, as is ECM. As for AMS, that's just worthless in general against dedicated LRM boats.
- It heavily punishes even the smallest mistakes. You can rapidly lose a team mate to him being slightly too high up on a rolling hill, for example.
- It heavily punishes slower mechs. While the game shouldn't be nothing but small arena maps, playing a big, slow mech on this map is basically a death sentence unless you're part of a premade team with coordination.
- Wins on this map are far more dependent upon teamwork than individual skill. That might be a nice theme for CW or environments that only have pre-made units and teams in them, but it is a lousy map concept for the solo queue where you have zero control over your team mates.

A map like this would work fine in the group queue, although even then it would degenerate into nothing but LRM + laser boats with a few NARC spotters running around, but for the solo queue, it is a poor design that leaves you completely at the mercy of whatever team you happened to draw.

[AnimeFreak40K]

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

Oh, look - another "anyone who disagrees with me must be a bad player"post.

It's not a matter of disagreement. people are free to disagree with me all they like. If they are able to form a reasonable, logical argument, then at the very least, I would see your side of things, understand where you're coming from and at worst, agree to disagree.

But so far the *only* argument against the map is 'OMG LRMS!', and that prompts my "learn to play" retort, because if you know how to play, how to use the terrain and work together (instead of doing a mad-rush into the middle), the LRM rain won't be as bad.

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

- It heavily rewards long-range combat, such as laser vomit, which the game already has in an excessive amount. Yes, you "can brawl" but based on the insane number of games I've been in on this map since it came out, brawling is still a piss-poor strategy on this map.

Good. It's about time that there were some maps that vavored actual long-range play. And no, brawling is NOT a piss-poor strategy, you just have to know how to move with your group and use the terrain to close distances.

In other words: you can't play Polar Highlands like you play any other map in this game! To do so is suicide.

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

- LRM's + a bit of scouting + NARC = free kills. Those cute little gullies and trenches are worthless in those situations, as is ECM. As for AMS, that's just worthless in general against dedicated LRM boats.

This is as it should be. The gullies and trenches are good at avoiding LOS and moving into position. ECM works just like Radar Derp once you break LOS. The key here is to play smart and use the terrain to your advantage, because there is plenty of it. This falls very firmly into this thing called Situational Awareness...a skill that is sorely lacking by many MANY players in this game.

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

- It heavily punishes even the smallest mistakes. You can rapidly lose a team mate to him being slightly too high up on a rolling hill, for example.

This is as it should be as well. This falls into Situational Awareness as well. MWO is billed as a 'thinking man's shooter' and people should pay for their mistakes. Further, this is how people learn, by being punished for their mistakes. You consider what happened, what went wrong, why it went wrong and try to not make that mistake in the future...you don't learn or improve by winning/doing well.

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

- It heavily punishes slower mechs. While the game shouldn't be nothing but small arena maps, playing a big, slow mech on this map is basically a death sentence unless you're part of a premade team with coordination.

Okay, I can agree with you there...*BUT* this problem is easily mitigated by, again, situational awareness; being aware of what your teammates have and adjusting your movements to accommodate that. I have dropped solo with Direwolves on my team (and on the other team) and they are still a frightening force to be reckoned with... as long as their team doesn't leave them hanging.
So let me say this again: situational awareness, think about your teammates and not just yourself. don't outrun your Assaults and leave them hanging.

oldradagast, on 23 January 2016 - 06:44 PM, said:

- Wins on this map are far more dependent upon teamwork than individual skill. That might be a nice theme for CW or environments that only have pre-made units and teams in them, but it is a lousy map concept for the solo queue where you have zero control over your team mates.

This is *exactly* as it should be. Because MechWarrior: Online is, first and foremost a team-based game. It has always been this way...even if PGI has done a crappy job of driving that central theme home by sub-par map design and lack of community/team-based functionality (chats, VOIP, recruitment, socialization, etc.)

Anyway... I want to make sure that what you are saying is that a team-based game should not have maps that encourage and demand team-based play? Because that is exactly what it seems you're saying.

[Brian Davion]

aren't LRMs constantly derided? if a map makes em more prominant? GOOD.

[Zimm Kotare]

A lot of posts worthy of a "like" in here, a lot making me think "I need an unlike button, perhaps a 'strongly unlike' button".

Yeah, its different, yeah it requires something many players might find unusual, even awkward, but to go so far as to ask for its removal & promise to actively behave like a spoilt, tantrum-having child, threatening to quit etc, is just beyond unconscionable.

Everyone has least favourite maps, you play them because even if you don't like them, you've committed to playing with another 11 players against another 12 & you know what, if you actually pull your thumb out of your backside & play, you might still have fun, might find a really exciting, special moment where things just click, or where you get masterfully outplayed etc. I think most people are pretty irritated when they see someone drop but not participate, after all it's an immediate handicap, sure in many cases you know there are legitimate reasons & let it go, but who would want to be the otherside of that, the (hopefully) small collection of ***hats who let people down by choice? "Huhuhu, I sure showed them internet folk by not playing the game! Huhuhu!" Man, if anyone has that sort of time to waste...

Personally, I love PH, it requires something you don't see in many other maps & certainly not to the degree you do on PH; a very different style of play. I've enjoyed it with pugs or pre-mades & so far, haven't seen a failure of teamwork in any of those matches, it has been a joy. This is the only reason I am braving the flood of selfish little posts like this; I would hate to see the statistically insignificant puddle of people who can be this childish, give PGI cause to regret or reverse their inclusion of PH (I'm sure they wouldn't be swayed by this garbage, but selfish is usually loud).

I have been LRM'd precisely once on PH, when I got my dumb*** Narc'd & hey, using the cover that exists meant I didn't take all that much damage. I mean, just have fun with the game, that's why we're all here right?

[Mackensen]

I like PH. Great map. Join up with that D-DC Atlas that is left behind on almost every other map in this game.

[oldradagast]

AnimeFreak40K, on 23 January 2016 - 09:57 PM, said:

This is *exactly* as it should be. Because MechWarrior: Online is, first and foremost a team-based game. It has always been this way...even if PGI has done a crappy job of driving that central theme home by sub-par map design and lack of community/team-based functionality (chats, VOIP, recruitment, socialization, etc.)

Anyway... I want to make sure that what you are saying is that a team-based game should not have maps that encourage and demand team-based play? Because that is exactly what it seems you're saying.

You miss the point entirely. Explain to me how making a map where teamwork overrides everything else works well in a game mode where I have ZERO control over ANY aspect of my team? Their builds, their skills, their interest in communicating and following a plan - zip. That's just nuts and you know it.

The fatal flaw with Polar Highlands is that it is brutally unforgiving any ANY mistakes: poor teamwork, lack of appropriate load-out for that map, poor scouting, etc. Various self-proclaimed "elite" players and those who think that MWO should be "just like real war!" thinks this is wonderful, while ignoring the fact that in no "real war" or "skillz game mode" anywhere are teams determined by being pulled randomly out of a hat.

I'm damned tired of:
- The other team has LRM's, we don't - we lose
- The other team has scouts, and we don't (or our scouts don't feel like scouting) - we lose.
- The other team does NOT have several assault mechs cobbled into horrible LRM boats that have decided to sit 900m away from the fight, so we lose
- The other team has 1 NARC'er, we don't, so we lose

I have no control over any of it; even if I bring a mech to cover one of the many need roles on this map, the others are still up to the whim of the random matchmaker, which means too many games are decided before the match begins - heck, it's just like many CW games. And that's why I think this new map is garbage; how can you demand teamwork in a game mode with zero control over your team?

Edited by oldradagast, 25 January 2016 - 05:18 AM.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

Laziest map PGI has made thus far, but not the worst.

I feel like the developer who was tasked with making this map just took Alpine Peaks and flipped the mountains into trenches.

I've never had fun playing it despite the wins. Players are starting to launch with LRMers in record numbers because there's a good chance this map comes up in a vote.

Not as bad as Forest Colony which is just a total abortion. I get depressed when Polar Highlands gets selected though. You basically have to hide to survive after your team runs around for 4-6 minutes looking for the other team.

Brian Davion, on 23 January 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

aren't LRMs constantly derided? if a map makes em more prominant? GOOD.

What the hell did I just read? You either have two options. Hide and peak, which makes for an incredibly boring match. Or hide and peak more than before, in which case get ready for constant screen shake and being killed by some noob who's trying to rack up points for another dumb challenge.

[Bud Crue]

Michal R, on 23 January 2016 - 02:02 AM, said:

First map where you must think and play with team. There is no way to play Rambo style.
Light scouts, medium help heavy, heavy and assaults do what they made for.
We need more map like this

I like the map but recognize its limitations for many builds. I do want to make a clarification however, regardless of how it plays for big and/or slow mechs (especially those running short range builds) I find that it is a GREAT map to play rambo style in a fast/sneaky mech.

My favorite tactic thus far is to take a locust (w/ 1LPL) or something similar, scout for the team and then disappear when the LRM/Snipe fest starts. Then slowly use the appropriate trench and circle WAY around and behind the enemy and then hit and run for the rest of the match. Its been a blast. I am a terribad player but doing this has given me several +700 damage games in Locusts, Crabs and CIcadas. That's really good for me, and I've even had a couple of green "up arrows" even in defeat. You want to learn to love this map? Use the trenches as more than a way to shelter from LRMs and sniper fire. It can be fun.

[AnimeFreak40K]

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

You miss the point entirely. Explain to me how making a map where teamwork overrides everything else works well in a game mode where I have ZERO control over ANY aspect of my team?

Well, the first thing you do is *STOP* thinking about yourself for one thing. The fact that you feel that you need or want some sort of control is telling that you're thinking this is all about you.

So the way I see it, you're missing the point of this game at the most base level.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

Their builds, their skills, their interest in communicating and following a plan - zip. That's just nuts and you know it. The fatal flaw with Polar Highlands is that it is brutally unforgiving any ANY mistakes: poor teamwork, lack of appropriate load-out for that map, poor scouting, etc. Various self-proclaimed "elite" players and those who think that MWO should be "just like real war!" thinks this is wonderful, while ignoring the fact that in no "real war" or "skillz game mode" anywhere are teams determined by being pulled randomly out of a hat.

No, what's insane is anybody trying to control these things. Instead, what should be happening is you should be trying to make things work. Again, you are showing me that you are far more concerned with personal victory and couldn't give a crap about the other 11 players that you're playing alongside.

Again, I do not find a map that is brutally unforgiving to be a bad thing by any means. It forces people to adapt how they do things, or they die. It's that simple.

With regard to load-outs: There is no "appropriate loadout". Many players have found success using long-range sniping, LRMs, Scouting, close-range brawling, you name it. There is absolutely *NO* reason why you cannot take your favorite mech and loadout onto this map and be successful.

With regard to poor scouting: I honestly don't expect there to be *good* scouting for awhile yet. This is because, so far, this is the only map that actively *encourages* scouting. For too long, Light pilots have not run scouts, and those that have were punished for doing so because the map didn't support it, or they supported it differently. Nevermind the fact that part of being a good scout is communicating with your team.

With regard to the "elite players": I think what a lot of folks are saying by the 'Real War' comment is the nature of the terrain, the reliance on combined arms (requiring both long range, short range and support components), requiring various roles (sniper, support, scout, etc.) and the fact that this isn't some sort of 'Arena team-death-match' and that the terrain makes some sort of sense.

I will agree however, that you are right in your statement that teams are randomly assigned in real war. This is a very true statement, and I agree with it. HOWEVER, this is also a team-based game. This means that you work with your team and what they have and you try to make the most of it. This means you put your ego aside and learn to not go off playing Rambo. It means that you use the tools that PGI has given us to communicate (such as the are) to let your team know what's going on.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

I'm damned tired of: - The other team has LRM's, we don't - we lose

Learn the terrain. Don't poke out. There are plenty of trenches and areas that both provide concealment *AND* cover. You won't find them running up the middle like an idiot though.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

- The other team has scouts, and we don't (or our scouts don't feel like scouting) - we lose.

Then pay attention to what's going on around you. If there's some stupid amount of LRMs, that means there's a scout somewhere, let people know about it. If necessary, go and hunt it down yourself.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

- The other team does NOT have several assault mechs cobbled into horrible LRM boats that have decided to sit 900m away from the fight, so we lose

That's just bad LRM-boating there... I mean, yes, you can make an Assault mech an LRM and it can be devastating...but they shouldn't be that far away from the fight. But you can't help that...what you *CAN* do is not let those guys be 900m away from the fight. You do this by paying attention to where they're at and staying with them. Yes, that means you are forcing the enemy to come to you. So what? Make the most of it and dictate where you are fighting and set up accordingly.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

- The other team has 1 NARC'er, we don't, so we lose

Just like with that whole scout thing, if you are paying attention and see that guy, let people know or take care of it yourself. Also, there is this really REALLY neat feature in the game. It lets you actually see what an enemy mech is equipped with. It's a beautiful thing really. Maybe you should look into it? Because, you know, that would help you find that NARCer. Oh, and as I mentioned before, there are areas that have sufficient cover from LRMs, but it's not in the middle, it's off to the far left/right of the map...which means to make use of it, you have to, you know, actually maneuver and do something other than charge up the middle.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

I have no control over any of it; even if I bring a mech to cover one of the many need roles on this map, the others are still up to the whim of the random matchmaker, which means too many games are decided before the match begins - heck, it's just like many CW games. And that's why I think this new map is garbage; how can you demand teamwork in a game mode with zero control over your team?

Again, you're biggest mistake is *trying* to control it. Stop that. Instead of trying to control something, try to work with what you've got. Because this map requires a different mindset, try communicating to your teammates. Make suggestions. Put on the Gold Star and actually start issuing orders. You know, start acting like a bloody team

. . . .

...you know what? I think I'm about done with you on this topic.

I asked this of you before, but it did not answer the question directly, but through your responses, I feel that I have received the answer. It's not the answer I wanted (because I had honestly hoped you were better than that), but that's just how things are. Every single statement that you have a problem with on this map can be mitigated, if not outright removed by proper maneuvering and adjusting of the style of play, and you seem unwilling or unable to see this and make the appropriate adjustments. You seem more fixated on yourself than the greater whole. This leads me to the conclusion that yes, you would very much prefer that a team-based game should not have team-based maps that encourage and demand team-based play.

That's fine if that's what you like, but you should be self-aware enough to know that's what you want, and I will just have to agree to disagree.

[Zeph0]

tag/narc raven on this map is fun, except when lrm distribution is only to one side...I'm sick of making next to no cbills because only the enemy team get's lrms, only thing I don't like about this map isn't actually about this map, its the team balance, 8 lrm boats and 4 lights vs 11 brawlers and on narc raven=heavily one sided game on this map, dare I say impossible for brawlers.

Can we distribute weapon types evenly please?

[oldradagast]

AnimeFreak40K, on 25 January 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

Well, the first thing you do is *STOP* thinking about yourself for one thing. The fact that you feel that you need or want some sort of control is telling that you're thinking this is all about you.

So the way I see it, you're missing the point of this game at the most base level.

Your entire response misses the point and is full of nothing but snide comments and stupid assumptions. Drivel about the "greater good" and "working as a team" simply avoids the core of what I posted, and your petty insults - "herp-a-derp, tell your team when you see a bad guy - I'm a MWO genius!" make you look like a child.

You still haven't addressed the basic point I'm making and instead have chosen to pick a meaningless fight.

Why would I want to play on a map that requires "teamwork" when I have no control over my random team?

It is a map that REQUIRES teamwork - and rather specific mech builds and mixes of mechs (long range, scouts, etc.) - to win... therefore, it is a living hell to play in the random team land of the solo queue because you have NO CONTROL over any of that.

That is why people hate this map - because the fight is often over before the match begins simply thanks to the luck of the draw regarding mech selection and how much "teamwork" you'll get from random PUG's. On no other map is that so vital to success. Similarly, no other map is so unforgiving of mistakes, which is also infuriating in the solo queue, where you can spell out the greatest strategy ever - and have it promptly ignored by the 11 other strangers who you seem to think count as a real "team." That's the problem, and if you'd take a break from trying to find a snide reply to every sentence I posted, you might see that... geez...

Edited by oldradagast, 25 January 2016 - 03:38 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

You still haven't addressed the basic point I'm making and instead have chosen to pick a meaningless fight.

I have addressed it repeatedly, point-by point in fact. You're choosing to not see it. And what you describe as 'meaningless' I see as making a point that arguments as to why Polar Highlands is a bad map and should be removed are patently wrong.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

Why would I want to play on a map that requires "teamwork" when I have no control over my random team?

BECAUSE YOU ARE PLAYING A TEAMWORK BASED GAME! Seriously, why would you want to play a teamwork based game when you have no control over your random team? When you can answer that question, then you will answer the question as to why you may want to play on such a map!

I have said it before, repeatedly, here and on similarly themed threads to you and to others:
MechWarrior: Online is, first and foremost, a team-based game. It always has been. This was what it was stated from day one.

Let me say it again:
MechWarrior: Online is a team-based game.

I am going to say it again, to make sure that, you know, we're on the same page here:
MechWarrior: Online is a team-based game

Here, let me say it again, one more time just to make sure you understand where I'm coming from:
MechWarrior: Online is a team-based game.

To be quite clear, PGI has done a terrible job at fomenting team-based play up until this point, so I can understand how that may have slipped under the radar. I can also understand that the past 2-3 years of not properly establishing and making it clear the reality that this is a team-based game to the players has also caused a slew of terrible habits from the vast majority of the players here.

...but that is absolutely no reason to not look at discarding those habits and changing mindsets on things.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

It is a map that REQUIRES teamwork - and rather specific mech builds and mixes of mechs (long range, scouts, etc.) - to win... therefore, it is a living hell to play in the random team land of the solo queue because you have NO CONTROL over any of that.

This map requires teamwork, but it doesn't require specific builds or mixes to be successful. Remember, your opponents are going to be just as mixed and eclectic as yours is.

This is where dropping that old mindset and bad habits that was built up over the past 2-3 years comes into play:
- just mindlessly rushing to the middle and ignoring terrain
- chasing squirrels.
- leaving Assaults/Heavies behind to fend for themselves
- not communicating with the other players on your team

In all seriousness, you are displaying a prime example of *exactly* what I am talking about. You are more concerned about how things turn out for you not for your team, but for you and you alone. You don't care about the other 11 players you're dropping with...you only care about you, and that's the wrong answer to have in a team-based game.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

That is why people hate this map - because the fight is often over before the match begins simply thanks to the luck of the draw regarding mech selection and how much "teamwork" you'll get from random PUG's.

At this point, I am convinced that the people that hate this map hate teamwork. They don't want to take responsibility for their failure to work as a team, instead they would rather blame the "random PUGs".

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

On no other map is that so vital to success. Similarly, no other map is so unforgiving of mistakes, which is also infuriating in the solo queue, where you can spell out the greatest strategy ever - and have it promptly ignored by the 11 other strangers who you seem to think count as a real "team."

The fact that it *IS* vital to success and that it *IS* so unforgiving is exactly why it's a great map! Because for random people to be successful, they have to cobble together a modicum of teamwork.

Eventually, especially if PGI keeps putting out maps that are just as punishing and unforgiving to such individualistic mentality in a team-based game, more people will actually start to 'get it' and get out of those bad habits.

On a somewhat related note, I define a team as a group of people who are working together to accomplish a specific goal.
In the case of MWO, the goal is to win the match, and those people that come together act like a team, even if it's with complete strangers, will be successful.

oldradagast, on 25 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

That's the problem, and if you'd take a break from trying to find a snide reply to every sentence I posted, you might see that... geez...

I would if you would stop responding to me in a manner that bears responding to or in a manner that suggests that you are not trying to avoid that I am calling you (and anybody else who puts out similar arguments against the map) out on your whole reason for hating Polar Highlands as being you just don't want a team-oriented map for a team-oriented game.

If you really don't want a team-oriented map in this team-oriented game, that's fine! I'm okay with that! Different strokes for different folks and all that rot. And if you really hate team-oriented games/gameplay, that's cool too! Nothing wrong with that; just be clear and honest in your reasons for disliking the map.

[B0oN]

As the title says ... you´re not using your quirks right .

Use what you already have ... like a BJ3 with ERPPC´s ... 1030+m full damage range, high mounted, poptart capable
or a BLR-1S ... 4ERLL @ 911m full damage range
or CDA
or QKD
or
or
or

Should make it pretty easy staying away from those evil, deadly LRM´s, neh ?

[oldradagast]

Animefreak40k: Lol, you still don't get it, and you're still defaulting to the dodgy reply of: "Uh, if you don't like this map, you must hate teamwork." This is just as laughable as the idiots who think that people who hate 12-man teams seal-clubbing PUGS in CW "hate big teams and teamwork." Try reading what was written for a change instead of slapping stupid insults and laughable motives after every sentence I write.

Again, let me spell it out for you: Polar Highlands, far more than any other non-CW map in the game, requires teamwork in both actions and mech selection to win. That sounds great - in theory - except I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER MY RANDOM "TEAM" IN THE SOLO QUEUE!

Is that clear enough? Or, are you going to yet again write a wall of text explaining why I "hate teamwork" based on groundless drivel? Maybe you should take that time to actually gain some understanding as to why people play this game vs. making up nonsense.

The reasons I stated sum up why people hate the map: because if you get the short end of the random "team" draw - no scouts, no LRM's, nothing but brawlers, whatever - you're hosed before the match even begins. This is FAR worse on Polar Highlands than other maps because of its size, lack of good cover, demand for specific mech actions and roles, and unforgiving nature. You seem baffled by people not wanting to be dependent upon their randomly selected "team" to win, when they have no real team in the first place. Duh...

Edited by oldradagast, 25 January 2016 - 05:53 PM.

[oldradagast]

AnimeFreak40K, on 25 January 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

Eventually, especially if PGI keeps putting out maps that are just as punishing and unforgiving to such individualistic mentality in a team-based game, more people will actually start to 'get it' and get out of those bad habits.

Oh, yes - great idea, smart-guy. Put out maps that require "teamwork" - and then keep building teams at random and see what happens. We already have a game mode for that - it's called Community Warfare. Last I checked, it's not doing so hot, but hey - if you want that for the full game, I'm sure that's a brilliant business decisions.

I don't know what is driving your over-the-top attitude, but these are the facts:

• Wanting to win is not "selfish" - last I checked, the whole team wins or loses, even if they are just a random pile of PUG's.
  
• People who are not happy with their randomly determined teams do not, by definition, "hate teamwork." Do you really think that I YOLO or disconnect or something if I don't get LRM's on Polar Highlands? You can't possibly be that clueless...
  
• People are right to dislike unforgiving maps where team composition is extremely important when they have no control over that. I have no idea why you can't see this basic aspect of human nature - people hate losing when their control over the outcome is mostly out of their hands. That's simple stuff.

Looking past the snark in your replies, you seem to be one of the types who loves taking cobbled together, junky "teams" and running them into the teeth of superior enemy and - maybe - winning. That's great - whatever works for you. But understand that most players are NOT interested in such random and generally lopsided game play. If they were, Community Warfare would be a hot-bed of activity instead of a wasteland and complete failure of a game mode. Wanting that for the rest of the game is obviously a bad idea, if you understand human nature.

Edited by oldradagast, 25 January 2016 - 06:07 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

You know, I had a really long, drawn out post in response to you, but after reading it over, I decided to delete it because you just plain don't get it.

I said it before; I'm done with you on this topic...and I was a fool for ignoring my own words.

[Steel Claws]

The people packing lrms may do OKish on this map but just remember how worthless LRMs are on most of the other maps. They pay for their moment in the sun since they cannot guarantee getting this map. Let them have their moment then **** them on the rest of the maps.

That said, LRMs can still be mitigated by the use of cover, ecm, ams, radar derp, and range. Yes I have got caught a time or two but that was because I made mistakes and I own up to that. It makes people stop and think, gee maybe I shouldn't go full srm/ ssrm brawler like what has been happening in the past couple months prior to this map dropping. How many erspl cheetahs do you see racking up score on this map? All those medium pulse laser boars have a much harder time of it don't they. It forces some more balanced rides.

This has been the issue with most of the new maps, just too much cover. It promoted sloppy game play. Now a map comes along (other than Alpine) that punishes sloppy play and some are getting all bent about it. Now isn't that just a shame.