119 replies to this topic

[SilentWolff]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Yeah, may be I'm Tier 5, Tier 4 for sure, but for some reason I find myself in Tier 3. But this is not map problem - it's about MM. Also about trying to insult me. I'm too adult to react on insults. Kindergarten period of my life was over long time ago.

It's really a problem of you being a low tier and not having a full understanding of tactics or mech builds.This isn't meant as an insult, but an observation. You can't really have an objective opinion when your playing with bads and noobs.

[Mawai]

As one persons subjective opinion, your rating is fine.

As a representation to new players of the best and worst maps ... it is utter bs.

Canyon is not the best map in my opinion. An opinion apparently shared by many others. Usually canyon turns into a shootout around the central rise/ramp area and is overall pretty boring. In addition, the canyons really limit maneuverability of mechs without jump jets.

I've only played one match on Polar Highlands but what I saw looked really good. The big difference is that it doesn't seem to have a central terrain feature or obstructed pathing that force matches into one or two limited types of encounters.

The reason HPG, Mining Collective and Frozen City usually give decent matches is because there are a few ways to go .. though in both HPG and MIning there are central structural areas (the central building on HPG and the building with ramps at both ends on Mining) which usually become the focus of the fight.

Frozen City currently has a spawn location problem in my opinion .. both sides get a lance dropped down the sides of the map with hills between them and the other lances. This tends to funnel all the fighting into the lower city near theta since it is where they can all meet up. Fix that and I think there will be more options on Frozen City. The drop locations basically mean that a tunnel flank will be guaranteed to split the team ... so the tunnels just don't get used any more.

Terra Therma revolves around the central crater and its entrances.

Veridian Bog is actually not bad ... visibility is the challenge here which a lot of people dislike but it can be mitigated by heat vision. Most tactics appear to be dictated by the spawn points and folks just walking straight forward with some cover.

Alpine is dominated by the mountain but it is possible to win this as either team as long as you work as a team. I've won matches coming up the valley and wiping out the defenders at the top ... but it was coordinated with most of the team moving together ... when the folks peek from the top to fire they get hit by several attackers. They die fast.

Forest Colony is a pretty map but probably one of my least favorite. Fighting usually ends up near the central arch though sometimes swings down to the water. I think this is mostly map design ... there is no real advantage to not fighting in the middle.

Tourmaline has decent sightlines. Usually again fighting ends up in the middle.

So if I was going to rank based on my opinion then it would run something like this ..

Good:
Canyon
Tourmaline
HPG
Mining Collective
Frozen City
Polar Highlands* ... needs more data

Average
Veridian Bog
Terra Therma
Forest Colony
Caustic

Needs some balance work:
Alpine

One of the key elements of EVERY map so far appears to be that the battle ends up taking place around a central terrain feature that provides some cover. There is at least one such location on most maps. Veridian and possibly Polar Highlands being exceptions. The reason for this is usually because it presents one of the better places where all lances can meet up and which provides decent cover from the opposing team.

I think the best way to minimize this type of repetitive game play would be to introduce randomized spawn points on every map and drop all three lances closer together. This would increase the role of scouts in finding the enemy team and would constantly change which terrain features would be the best locations for cover or to rendez-vous. It would also tend to reduce the imbalance in the match that results when one lance is unable to regroup with the rest before being destroyed by the opponents.

[Dimento Graven]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

Spoiler

When you are new to a game, unexperienced and don't understand, what is happening - everything looks great and exciting. But after several thousands matches of game experience you start to realize, which maps are good and which are terrible. So here is the updated rating of maps in this game, which reflects recent changes to old maps, as long as release of new ones. So players, who haven't realized it yet, would know, for what and against what maps they should vote, in order to get overall better gameplay.

Following criteria are used to rank maps:
1) Variation of tactics
2) How balanced spawns/sides of map are
3) Imbalance towards some weight classes
4) Imbalance towards some builds
5) Imbalance towards some Meta
6) Time is wasted on that map in non-playing activities

What isn't taken into account:
1) Visibility - not knowing, how to use H and N buttons - is your problem
2) Terrain - not knowing, how to properly move, navigate and choose routes - is your problem
3) Temperature - not knowing, how to manage your heat - is your problem
4) FPS - weak computer is your problem

I feel bad for you.

Here's my take on the current map situation, since the patch:


Edit: Probable explanation for my enjoyment, I tend to play dual gauss, dual laser sniper/brawlers.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 January 2016 - 09:15 AM.

[Mawai]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover and flank paths. The only viable tactic - is to rush towards Hamburger Hill. Any other tactic is proven to be predetermined loss. Some team tried to ambush us from G7 at Alpine today - 4 Assaults/Heavies were stomped in a matter of few seconds. NEVER DO IT! So, if other team managed to get to Hamburger Hill first - it's predetermined loss. That's what happened - I've done everything right, rushed to it, my team was noobish and haven't supported me -> obvious loss.

I've won several PUG matches going up the valley and kicking out the folks at the top. It is really quite doable. However, you need to get the entire team to buy in, spread out across the slope and move up together ... meaning they have to wait for the assaults to catch up. The folks at the top have to become visible to fire down the slope and at that point they are vulnerable to fire from those advancing up the slope.

It isn't a guarantee of winning but it usually works out. When you reach the top, pop a UAV and push the weakest part of their line.

There is no doubt that holding the hill top can be an advantage but it is not an insurmountable one ... there are lots of other tactics that can get them out of that position. The problem usually is that some people head up the slope one by one in a line ... or start flanking in a line ... all of which lets a defender focus fire on the lead element ... enough of which will usually end in a loss.

As for alternates ... there are a few spots on Alpine that see a lot more use in Conquest mode ... the mountain is pretty much ignored due to the changed spawn points and objectives.

However, I agree that Alpine could use a bit more cover at various points. On the other hand, the long sight lines make for a different play experience but is very challenging for mechs with short range builds. A mech with only AC20 and ML might be unlikely to be deployed to a battle on Alpine while a mech with PPC/Large lasers or AC5 might be a better choice range wise. Unfortunately, the game doesn't yet support a mechanism to swap mech loadouts for different maps.

[MrMadguy]

Of course all maps are great for 2xGauss or Lase vomit. So before posting your own ratings you should first play some non-Meta Heavy/Assault brawler. It's legitimate choice, so don't say it's bad somehow. Play only it and nothing more for some time. And then you'll see, how magically some maps will become unfair for you. Every map should be fair for any legitimate build, otherwise it will be that, what I call imbalance. Some players good everywhere - some are gimped at half of maps.

[Dimento Graven]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

Of course all maps are great for 2xGauss or Lase vomit. So before posting your own ratings you should first play some non-Meta Heavy/Assault brawler. It's legitimate choice, so don't say it's bad somehow. Play only it and nothing more for some time. And then you'll see, how magically some maps will become unfair for you. Every map should be fair for any legitimate build, otherwise it will be that, what I call imbalance. Some players good everywhere - some are gimped at half of maps.

I wonder how many people will disagree with your statements.

Especially the "some players good everywhere - some are gimped at half of maps", considering that a truly "good" player will be able to adapt their play style.

HOWEVER, your own list, as I was attempting to subtly point out, is based on opinion from your own limited play style, and is NOT in fact an actual 'factual' representation.

Sorry, get over yourself, everyone enjoys different maps for different reasons.

[1Grimbane]

my list looks a lot like dimento's with hpg being on top of list though. i am really starting to enjoy caustic as of late, don;t know why but after watching isengrim's opening for their event i can't help but want to play it

[patataman]

TheCharlatan, on 21 January 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Actual picture of the underhive itself:


MrMadGuy is the one screaming on the right.

LOL i can't stop laughing! good one!

My preferences totally objective list is:

Excelent - Hoth. I hope this is the new standar for maps.
Good - Alpine, Mordor, Crimson, Tourmaline, River city, Endor, Canyon, Mining collective, Dagobah, the old caustic.
Meh - Dagobah with undestructible roots, the new caustic.
Terrible - Frozen city, HPG. (mainly because of the braindead tactics and the so called "meta")

[Dimento Graven]

1Grimbane, on 21 January 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

my list looks a lot like dimento's with hpg being on top of list though. i am really starting to enjoy caustic as of late, don;t know why but after watching isengrim's opening for their event i can't help but want to play it

With Caustic, I feel a flashback to the "New Coke" travesty.

I LOVED the Old Caustic, it was a GREAT map (when you could keep the puggies from NASCAR'ing on it), the NEW Caustic, BLYEAHCH!!!, all the damn micro rocks to stop you dead and the increased smog, it gets annoying ESPECIALLY when the team is NASCAR'ing.

BUT, over all, it's not an entirely bad map. It just needs some work...

[1Grimbane]

ahhhhh.... new coke lol. kinda like the sparkling pepsi deal. MAY I POINT OUT THAT HGP IS THE ONLY TRUE ARENA STYLE MAP WE HAVE AND IS THEREFORE UNIQUE LIKE THAT. until they release solaris12 v 12 lol hello cargo from cod 4

Edited by 1Grimbane, 21 January 2016 - 10:21 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

I think to many of you confuse personal preference with what is good and bad

[Dimento Graven]

XX Sulla XX, on 21 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

I think to many of you confuse personal preference with what is good and bad

LOL!

Yeah... It's not like what each one of us considers "good" vs. "bad" is anything BUT personal preference!

(Yeah I realize that's your point...}

[MerryIguana]

Revorn, on 21 January 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

Now i want to play donkey kong.

[Koorstag]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

If I die fast in some matches - is only due to gift and curse of being too experienced. I always know, where enemies will be, what they will do and try to counter them. For example usually I'm the only one, who notices ambush and tries to counter it. Of course, I can't do it alone against half of enemy team, which often ends bad way. But I just can't do anything with it: I'm not coward and just can't run away and hide. I try to save my team and sometimes it works - as at that match at Mining Collective, where some guy was trolling me for low performance, but it was I, who countered ambush and allowed my team to win, instead of being stomped.

well that is a new one. "I die too much because I am experienced" lol

[Snowhawk]

Canyon Network = excellent...??? Lol... ask an Atlas, King Crab or Dire-Wolf-Pilot whether they really like this map....

[Dimento Graven]

Snowhawk, on 21 January 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

Canyon Network = excellent...??? Lol... ask an Atlas, King Crab or Dire-Wolf-Pilot whether they really like this map....

I'm a KGC pilot, I like it.

<shrug>

[BigBenn]

NONE of the maps should be removed from play. Period. However, I do agree some of them could use a tweak or two when it comes to base/flag positions on conquest and assault.

Each map has its attributes. Learn and enjoy!

[Columb0]

i can agree on polar highlands. that map is no fun at all and in my opinion favours assaults and LRMs far too much. i can't stand that map, so much space to walk and so little to cover.

[1Grimbane]

well.. that map does have trenches and tons of hills that block los caustic for example has really one center hill that is used to nascar around. polar has too many los blocking hills to count... and oh yeah TRENCHES

Edited by 1Grimbane, 21 January 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[MerryIguana]

BigBenn, on 21 January 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

NONE of the maps should be removed from play. Period. However, I do agree some of them could use a tweak or two when it comes to base/flag positions on conquest and assault.

Each map has its attributes. Learn and enjoy!

Still tons of environmental hitbox issues. but good post.