119 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

DV McKenna, on 21 January 2016 - 05:39 AM, said:

No it means you should flank and use cover to work your way into your range bracket....or ya know stop being a one trick pony and master something more than <250M combat.
What you shouldn't do is violate the CoC by suicide

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover and flank paths. The only viable tactic - is to rush towards Hamburger Hill. Any other tactic is proven to be predetermined loss. Some team tried to ambush us from G7 at Alpine today - 4 Assaults/Heavies were stomped in a matter of few seconds. NEVER DO IT! So, if other team managed to get to Hamburger Hill first - it's predetermined loss. That's what happened - I've done everything right, rushed to it, my team was noobish and haven't supported me -> obvious loss.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 January 2016 - 05:51 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover.

............what?

[Pika]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover

Okay now you're trolling. >.>

[MrMadguy]

Pika, on 21 January 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

Okay now you're trolling. >.>

Top of Hamburger Hill itself - is the only viable cover on this map.

[Jetfire]

Terra Therma is the only map I would classify as "Bad", none are actually unplayable. Alpine is borderline "Bad" due to the huge hill issue. It isn't that it is a bad map, it just needs a slight elevation adjustment and it could be fine. Terra Therma needs a more comprehensive redesign to be a good map.

The rest are fine or good. The new map is terrific.

[MeiSooHaityu]

There are other tactics that can be effective (such as good positioning at the radio tower hill near Mt. Tryhard). Problem is, taking the hill is the easiest and most instinctive tactic that just plays out in PUG play. Even then, if the game is Conquest which effectively removes the hill, the map is actually decent.

Regardless, I wouldn't call it unplayable and demand it be removed from rotation. I just call it flawed and should be up for a redesign that is more PUG friendly.

[Revorn]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover

[Varvar86]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover and flank paths. The only viable tactic - is to rush towards Hamburger Hill. Any other tactic is proven to be predetermined loss. Some team tried to ambush us from G7 at Alpine today - 4 Assaults/Heavies were stomped in a matter of few seconds. NEVER DO IT! So, if other team managed to get to Hamburger Hill first - it's predetermined loss. That's what happened - I've done everything right, rushed to it, my team was noobish and haven't supported me -> obvious loss.

pffffffffff.....man this is so limited point of view. How do you manage playing this game since 2012 if you still can't imagine other ways to deal with enemy advantage but stupidly doing what they want you to do?

If you are not able for hard tactics like "let em sit there we just wait em to come down here" and prefer straigth "need to attack now or I will explode" -- go H8 use right hill as a cover and push up alltogether - easy win over "superioir hill advantage".

Edited by Varvar86, 21 January 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[MrMadguy]

If I die fast in some matches - is only due to gift and curse of being too experienced. I always know, where enemies will be, what they will do and try to counter them. For example usually I'm the only one, who notices ambush and tries to counter it. Of course, I can't do it alone against half of enemy team, which often ends bad way. But I just can't do anything with it: I'm not coward and just can't run away and hide. I try to save my team and sometimes it works - as at that match at Mining Collective, where some guy was trolling me for low performance, but it was I, who countered ambush and allowed my team to win, instead of being stomped.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 January 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:53 AM, said:

Top of Hamburger Hill itself - is the only viable cover on this map.

[pyrocomp]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

The problem is in fact, that Alpine lacks cover and flank paths. The only viable tactic - is to rush towards Hamburger Hill. Any other tactic is proven to be predetermined loss. Some team tried to ambush us from G7 at Alpine today - 4 Assaults/Heavies were stomped in a matter of few seconds. NEVER DO IT! So, if other team managed to get to Hamburger Hill first - it's predetermined loss. That's what happened - I've done everything right, rushed to it, my team was noobish and haven't supported me -> obvious loss.

Ahem...
First, the F6 is an easier defendable position than Mt. Candy (no way to have some light to sneak behind).
Second, I6-H6 is also a good palce (but requires coordiantion and manuevre, hampers LRM effectiveness).
Third, the G9-F10 is also a good postion to assault the Mt.Candy.
Forth, it's alsost the only map where you can with reasonable chances pull pincers manuevre (do not try that on Terma, almost never works).
And to finish now, I have no indication that the early siezing of Mt.Candy is a guarantee towards victory. Seen reversals, fast takeovers, flanking, ambush and many other things. Just do not rush it and see what will happen,but you aren't going to listen, are you?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 05:30 AM, said:

One guy in a recent match said: "map isn't bad - you should learn to position yourself properly". What that means? It means, I should hide for the whole duration of the match, till enemy team will come and stomp me. But hiding - is non-participation and against COC too. So here is the choice: 1) To brawl and do at least some damage. 2) To hide and non-participate till the end of match. I'm not a coward and simply prefer first choice.

No, what that means is: Move with the team. Utilize your scouts to reach out and get an idea on where the enemy is. Be mindful of their general direction of movement, and move to counteract. Engage as needed, and keep an eye out for flanks using a rear guard.

I know this is a game, but using even a smidge of military tactic's knowledge will go a long way.

I've yet to see a single match, where the enemy on the new map, has just sat and waited. In fact, the map promotes movement and flanking more than sitting and waiting.

The more you talk, the more I'm convinced that a pea has replaced your grey matter.

[PyckenZot]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

When you are new to a game, unexperienced and don't understand, what is happening - everything looks great and exciting. But after several thousands matches of game experience you start to realize, which maps are good and which are terrible. So here is the updated rating of maps in this game, which reflects recent changes to old maps, as long as release of new ones. So players, who haven't realized it yet, would know, for what and against what maps they should vote, in order to get overall better gameplay.

Following criteria are used to rank maps:
1) Variation of tactics
2) How balanced spawns/sides of map are
3) Imbalance towards some weight classes
4) Imbalance towards some builds
5) Imbalance towards some Meta
6) Time is wasted on that map in non-playing activities

Pika, on 21 January 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

You just won this thread!

[MrMadguy]

pyrocomp, on 21 January 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

And to finish now, I have no indication that the early siezing of Mt.Candy is a guarantee towards victory. Seen reversals, fast takeovers, flanking, ambush and many other things. Just do not rush it and see what will happen,but you aren't going to listen, are you?

People, who say "I had both good and bad matches on that map" should take into account, how terrible MM in this game is and how imbalanced teams sometimes are. Sometimes team is doing everything right, but they can't use their advantage due to being way too weak against other team. Obvious stomps - aren't indication of map imbalance. "Average" matches - are. If after hundreds of matches on this map you have noticed, that it's easier to win from one side of the map, then from the other - it's imbalance. If after hundreds of matches you have noticed, that one specific tactic brings biggest chance of success - then always use this tactic, don't rely on enemies being noobish enough to let you play, how you want.

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 January 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[Athalus]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

If I die fast in some matches - is only due to gift and curse of being too experienced. I always know, where enemies will be, what they will do and try to counter them. For example usually I'm the only one, who notices ambush and tries to counter it. Of course, I can't do it alone against half of enemy team, which often ends bad way. But I just can't do anything with it: I'm not coward and just can't run away and hide. I try to save my team and sometimes it works - as at that match at Mining Collective, where some guy was trolling me for low performance, but it was I, who countered ambush and allowed my team to win, instead of being stomped.

[Darth Hotz]

Things that really suck on some map are badly located spawn points for assaults, fog that instantly makes you switch to thermal vision and that a 100ton death machine can get stopped by roots and trenches.

[Thaar]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

When you are new to a game, unexperienced and don't understand, what is happening - everything looks great and exciting. But after several thousands matches of game experience you start to realize, which maps are good and which are terrible. So here is the updated rating of maps in this game, which reflects recent changes to old maps, as long as release of new ones. So players, who haven't realized it yet, would know, for what and against what maps they should vote, in order to get overall better gameplay.

Following criteria are used to rank maps:
1) Variation of tactics
2) How balanced spawns/sides of map are
3) Imbalance towards some weight classes
4) Imbalance towards some builds
5) Imbalance towards some Meta
6) Time is wasted on that map in non-playing activities

Opinions are just that... opinions.
I really dislike HPG and Mining and I'm more of a brawler.

[pyrocomp]

MrMadguy, on 21 January 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

People, who say "I had both good and bad matches on that map" should take into account, how terrible MM in this game is and how imbalanced teams sometimes are. Sometimes team is doing everything right, but they can't use their advantage due to being way too weak against other team. Obvious stomps - aren't indication of map imbalance. "Average" matches - are. If after hundreds of matches on this map you have noticed, that it's easier to win from one side of the map, then from the other - it's imbalance. If after hundreds of matches you have noticed, that one specific tactic brings biggest chance of success - then always use this tactic, don't rely on enemies being noobish enough to let you play, how you want.

As I stated above, there is no correlation between the drop position (side and lance) and the match outcome. So on average the winning on this map isn't on the north-east team. Not on the south-west team. The Alpine is the map where you can see the outcome earlier then on some other maps, but still it doesn't make it imbalanced.

The MM is better than it was a year ago. Coordination matter now more than it mattered earlier, no rambo lances now win the match and no light-packs that can rip through a deathball (as it sometimes happend one and a half years back). And... MM do not give advantage to the specific team on the specific map. It, if not working proper, create teams with advantage on on side. But if you will tell me that in this universe there is a method to always divide a group of unidentical entities into two absolutely equal groups, I'll call you a liar. Fundamentally it is impossible. So one team is alway with some advantage. However it does not matter much, for players' choises affect the match much more.

But, anyway, this is before the map selection so bad MM does not make Alpine unbalanced map.

And, IIRC, I havent seen for long time a direct full frontal stomp. Flanking, ambush, but not full frontal.

So, if an average match would've been iin favor of a specific team on a specific map tah would've been obvious looong before now and long before your post.

[kesmai]

So where are the numbers?

atm your list is just Useless.


see enough made-up bullcrap in this forums all day. Give your statement some foundation.

bet is on elbandito was, albeit violating forum rules, right. We will not see any backup stats from you.


which leads to you objectively misguiding new players with a fantasy list, leading to the conclusion that you are a troll.

Edited by kesmai, 21 January 2016 - 06:46 AM.

[1Grimbane]

all i will say is I LOVE POLAR HIGHLANDS suck it whiners