115 replies to this topic

[PR1VATEER]

Hey OP, instead of talking down to folks, how about sharing some useful tactics on this new map?

[Soulscour]

PR1VATEER, on 22 January 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

Hey OP, instead of talking down to folks, how about sharing some useful tactics on this new map?

The tactics and tips are already all over the forum. This thread is ment to talk down to you.

[xWiredx]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 22 January 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Why would you brawl with it?

It's a PPC carrier, that utilizes it's dual PPC's at range while working forward to apply it's Mlas, Slas, and SRM6. At least with the 6K/6R model.

Yes, I can bring that shorter range weaponry into the brawl, but I'm gimping myself of 20 damage every shot if I get into it under 90.

With a Standard 300 engine, my base speed is 69.4kph pre speedtweak, I don't really WANT to be in the brawl.

My issue with what you'd said has nothing to do with brawling. And everything to do with this seeming war on Standard engines.

The Warhammer is a mostly symetrical mech, aprox 3 weapons on each side [for 6 - 8 weapons ] with the addition of a single missile system on one side or the other [or both in the one case]...

The mech is symmetrical, for the most part, and that offers it up to Standard Engines much better, you can roll damage, and sure you might loose half of your armament if you lose a side torso, but that means you STILL have combat capability. If you toss an XL in, and loose a side torso, you loose any of your ability to continue the fight and instead, have been taken out.

Honestly, in my view, taking an XL in a Warhammer, is gimping your team at the end of the day... the only reasons to take an XL on the WHM anyway is 1)to free up some tonnate for some additional heatsinks/ammo. 2) to mount a larger engine, for faster movement, to close brawling ranges.

And by your own admission, the WHM shouldn't be brawling, so...

Using the WHM's range requires switching the PPCs to the side torsos. The arms are pretty low, which is a major detractor for the WHM, so you'd definitely want weaker weapons to be placed in those than in the STs for sure. That I think everybody can agree on. It is unfortunate that it takes away from what a WHM has been all this time to lots of the fans. It's really kind of a bummer.

What I don't understand is how you can think that it doesn't want to get in brawling range and actually duke it out., AND why you're so anti-XL on this thing. There is almost no loadout that I can make with a STD engine that I cannot make better with an XL on a WHM. Granted, I don't find the ones I have a STD in that much less effective on average. Compare my best so far 760 dmg 5 kill match in an XL WHM with 2 UAC5s and 4 MPLs to my best so far 650 dmg 2 kill match in a STD WHM with 2 AC5s and 4 MPLs, though... that XL made a pretty decent difference in that case. You sacrifice livability for greater potential, a known risk for taking an XL.

To kind of round it out, removing the PPCs and adding AC5s/UAC5s and using MPLs effectively makes those particular WHMs brawlers. I've consistently done better in my brawler WHMs than my long-range PPC/ERPPC ones. I've come close with the almost stock Black Widow loadout with a 520 dmg 2 kill match, but those low-slung arms have robbed my ERPPCs of more than a few hits.

For some of us that have 5 WHMs in the garage, putting an XL in a couple for builds we might consider more fun is just a thing to do. I mean, it is just a game, after all.

[SilentWolff]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 22 January 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Why would you brawl with it?

It's a PPC carrier, that utilizes it's dual PPC's at range while working forward to apply it's Mlas, Slas, and SRM6. At least with the 6K/6R model.

Yes, I can bring that shorter range weaponry into the brawl, but I'm gimping myself of 20 damage every shot if I get into it under 90.

With a Standard 300 engine, my base speed is 69.4kph pre speedtweak, I don't really WANT to be in the brawl.

My issue with what you'd said has nothing to do with brawling. And everything to do with this seeming war on Standard engines.

The Warhammer is a mostly symetrical mech, aprox 3 weapons on each side [for 6 - 8 weapons ] with the addition of a single missile system on one side or the other [or both in the one case]...

The mech is symmetrical, for the most part, and that offers it up to Standard Engines much better, you can roll damage, and sure you might loose half of your armament if you lose a side torso, but that means you STILL have combat capability. If you toss an XL in, and loose a side torso, you loose any of your ability to continue the fight and instead, have been taken out.

Honestly, in my view, taking an XL in a Warhammer, is gimping your team at the end of the day... the only reasons to take an XL on the WHM anyway is 1)to free up some tonnate for some additional heatsinks/ammo. 2) to mount a larger engine, for faster movement, to close brawling ranges.

And by your own admission, the WHM shouldn't be brawling, so...

I misunderstood your earlier post.
No, you don't brawl with it, that was my point. Don't treat it like a Marauder cause it isn't one. And although you could brawl with it, it's less than ideal.
As far as my "war" on standard engines, my point is that it is also less than ideal. Why? Because it is more of a ranged mech that will be using weapons that create a good deal of heat. It's best to sit further back and have the speed ( which is life in this game ) to reposition when needed. I also prefer to have as much heat dissipation as possible. You simply cannot get the speed and heat dissipation you need running a standard engine.
And if you have good map awareness and positioning, you should be one of the last ones to die anyway.

Edited by SilentWolff, 22 January 2016 - 07:44 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

People who play for lore, fun and immersion would drive this

People who play for epeen are only happy after they butcher it to this


and most players think THIS is why we have a mechlab


any questions?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 January 2016 - 07:47 AM.

[chewie]

Bishop summed it up quite succinctly in that post.

[SilentWolff]

PR1VATEER, on 22 January 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

Hey OP, instead of talking down to folks, how about sharing some useful tactics on this new map?

The tactics are really the same as any other map. Contrary to all the cries on the forum, the new map has tons of cover. You just have to be smart enough to make good use of it. And as is true with any game, you have to have good teamwork to be successful. I have no idea what your preferred playstyle or level of skill is, but I would be more than willing to share tips with you in a private conversation if you want, just send me a PM.

Soulscour, on 22 January 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

The tactics and tips are already all over the forum. This thread is ment to talk down to you.

Too funny, well played sir. (And a bit true I must add)

Edited by SilentWolff, 22 January 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Fluid battlefields. If you find you're losing in your position. Fighting withdrawal back to better cover. Draw them out into your former position.

[Charronn]

Well i have just clicked in mine.After a few really really horrible games and I mean bad I just started to get better in them.
The Black Widow is just soooooo gooood.
It also looks wicked.They are not brawlers in any shape or form.Ppc's are shite and should'nt be,thats why I ripped them all out.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

xWiredx, on 22 January 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Using the WHM's range requires switching the PPCs to the side torsos.

That's just like, your opinion man.

[1Grimbane]

Jack Staff, on 21 January 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

As long as you have rader dep yes indeed.

I don't always use radar derp... but when i do.. wait a minute i always use radar derp. i have been seeing a lot of multi mount ballistic warhammers and i wants me one now... i've also been putting erppc's on everything in sight now so wouldn't mind trying the stock warhammer load out

[Fiona Marshe]

xWiredx, on 21 January 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

The Warhammer... I like the hero loadout. The rest of them... I tried to keep one stock with the PPCs despite my misgivings of PPCs, and the rest I still need to work out. I like my STD280 AC5+MPL build and my XL300 UAC5+MPL build (which I will be slightly redoing, its too close to the other for my liking). The others are kinda meh.

The stock WHM-6R (with single heatsinks), really holds its own if you can manage your heat spikes.

[SilentWolff]

I'm really diggin the Warhammers. Both the 6R and BW are fun and you can put some really nice builds on them.

I would also agree that Radar Dep is a pretty mandatory module.

[wanderer]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 22 January 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

That's just like, your opinion man.

To be honest, you're gonna get better firing solutions if you give the 'Hammer some Lightning Nipples. Low slung hardpoints do make a difference.

(or, if you mount ACs, Thunder Nipples).

[AnimeFreak40K]

Love the new map and I hope PGI kicks out more maps that are like Polar Highlands in the sort of gameplay that it demands from the players to be successful on.

I like the Warhammers, but I'm still trying to figure them out. So far, they just don't seem to match my playstyle very well, but I think given sufficient time things will improve.

I think the bit about folks treating them like second-line (not up front, but just behind the front guys), I may end up doing better.

[oldradagast]

Sorry, but Polar Highlands is a poorly designed map, at least for the general game population.

People who are in love with the "full Battltech experience" drool with excitement over this map. They like the concept of a map that requires intricate planning, specific mech roles, finely tuned mech builds for the map, and so on. It feels more like "real war" or something similar to them when a map is deep, complicated, unforgiving, and heavily dependent upon every factor to win.

Ok, fair enough - we all look for different things in a game. But here's what kills Polar Highlands: why the heck would I want to play a map that requires everything to come together on my team - mech builds, mech roles, etc. - when my "team" is nothing but a bunch of random players?

THAT is the problem - Polar Highlands is a map that requires every level of teamwork imaginable to win, and then you're tossed a random pile of mechs and told "good luck!'

If you lose the draw and get a bunch of brawlers, or no LRM's, or useless LRM boats, or a huge range in mech speeds, or whatever else, this map will brutally punish you far more than any other map in the game outside of CW. You must scout, you must have long range mechs, you must have good coms, your team must have a plan, etc. And yet you have no real control over any of that in Solo queue.

That's why I hate this map. It feels far too much like the drek in CW where you get a random pile of pieces that will not go together for your team, and then you lose before the match begins because the other side happens to be a 12-man, have a NARC + LRM combo going, etc.

Edited by oldradagast, 26 January 2016 - 03:50 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

wanderer, on 23 January 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

To be honest, you're gonna get better firing solutions if you give the 'Hammer some Lightning Nipples. Low slung hardpoints do make a difference.

(or, if you mount ACs, Thunder Nipples).

Yes, you are very, very correct.

However not everything is about min-maxing the mech to OPness... and honestly, seeing Warhammers out there with loadout's like that just irk my inner battletech fan.

Honestly I'm fine with the low slung hardpoints, It requires *ghasp* skill to utilize them properly.

Sure, there are a few times where I've been screwed over by them, but you know what, I'd rather have that flavor, than meta my way to victory.

oldradagast, on 26 January 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Sorry, but Polar Highlands is a poorly designed map, at least for the general game population.

People who are in love with the "full Battltech experience" drool with excitement over this map. They like the concept of a map that requires intricate planning, specific mech roles, finely tuned mech builds for the map, and so on. It feels more like "real war" or something similar to them when a map is deep, complicated, unforgiving, and heavily dependent upon every factor to win.

Ok, fair enough - we all look for different things in a game. But here's what kills Polar Highlands: why the heck would I want to play a map that requires everything to come together on my team - mech builds, mech roles, etc. - when my "team" is nothing but a bunch of random players?

THAT is the problem - Polar Highlands is a map that requires every level of teamwork imaginable to win, and then you're tossed a random pile of mechs and told "good luck!'

If you lose the draw and get a bunch of brawlers, or no LRM's, or useless LRM boats, or a huge range in mech speeds, or whatever else, this map will brutally punish you far more than any other map in the game outside of CW. You must scout, you must have long range mechs, you must have good coms, your team must have a plan, etc. And yet you have no real control over any of that in Solo queue.

That's why I hate this map. It feels far too much like the drek in CW where you get a random pile of pieces that will not go together for your team, and then you lose before the match begins because the other side happens to be a 12-man, have a NARC + LRM combo going, etc.

Then this is not a problem with the map, but a problem with the userbase.

[Malachy Karrde]

Polar Highlands is a decent map once you get used to it. The warhammer... its mediocre at best. Most other mechs in the same tonnage range (65 to 75) are much better at everything. The best I can say for it is that I made a viable PPC build and discovered some things about small pulse lasers and Machine guns that will help in better mechs. If you can avoid getting drawn into a longer brawl and either kill your target and extract yourself, the warhammer can be fun. get into a brawl and pretty much anything can take you down fast. I wish I hadnt bought the warhammer but I am going to keep the black widow variant, but sell the other 3. Yesterday was gonna sell em all for cbills so thats saying something I guess.

[wanderer]

Quote

Ok, fair enough - we all look for different things in a game. But here's what kills Polar Highlands: why the heck would I want to play a map that requires everything to come together on my team - mech builds, mech roles, etc. - when my "team" is nothing but a bunch of random players?

Welcome to life as a missile boat, everywhere. Everything is situational, you make do with what you get.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I actually had better luck running my black widow super stock with a standard engine...my only annoyance was the fairly mediocre damage per game....takes a lot of PPC hits before that damage adds up...