284 replies to this topic

[Adiuvo]

XX Sulla XX, on 23 January 2016 - 01:20 AM, said:

You for got to mention the $100k PGI tournament that is coming this year.

Right on that, that's an even better point!

[Kjudoon]

I sprained an eye rolling them at that tournament announcement.

[1Grimbane]

from some of what i've seen from the "comp" players ... they are the guys delving into the raw mechanics of the game so they can optimize drop decks to the max... makes sense in my book. understand the limitations of your equipment and use it to the fullest potential possible. that means getting into heat scale values hit reg crap, hitboxes, ghost mechanics the list goes on

Edited by 1Grimbane, 23 January 2016 - 01:42 AM.

[Kjudoon]

And that is how metabuilds happen and wreck games.

Only way to combat this? Add randomness like cone of fire. Random percentage chances and uncertain ranges that cannot be controlled or predicted. Drives them crazy.

The comp teams will have this figured out soon enough in an ocd minute.

[CDLord HHGD]

Kjudoon, on 23 January 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

And that is how metabuilds happen and wreck games.

Only way to combat this? Add randomness like cone of fire. Random percentage chances and uncertain ranges that cannot be controlled or predicted. Drives them crazy.

The comp teams will have this figured out soon enough in an ocd minute.

The more meta I see the more I agree with drastic actions like these.

[Wattila]

Kjudoon, on 23 January 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

Only way to combat this? Add randomness like cone of fire. Random percentage chances and uncertain ranges that cannot be controlled or predicted. Drives them crazy.

World of Tanks has RNG in spades, and people complain just the same.

About the map, also agree I like it a lot. Scouting actually matters. Hopefully tactics will evolve too, tons of silly losses because teams insist on rushing mid even though that only gets you flanked and shot to bits.

And the comp/casual thing. I used to play WoT on the highest competitive level, and feel MWO comp play shares many of the same problems (campy, boring, stale meta). It's a totally different experience (different game even?) compared to normal PUG queue, so it makes no sense to balance around comp play. And people don't honestly care much for it.

Then there are games like LoL (or even CSGO), where the experience is very similar (same maps, same champs) all the way from pro play to low-level casual. As the meta changes, solo queue emulates pro play, and advanced gameplay concepts kind of trickle down the tiers (or leagues, as they're called). Thus it makes sense to balance the game around pro tournaments, as the players know the game inside out AND play the same game as the casuals (which is not the case in MWO or WoT).

[Kjudoon]

I play WoWS so I understand wargaming design philosophy but agree with it in principle and most application. Similar concepts must be brought here to defeat many of the more severe problems and balance "skill" disparity caused by perfect convergence Nd perfect dependability.

Regardless... Gamers complain so much it should be taken as the natural state of being. I shall adapt an old joke for it: what's the difference between a puppy and a gamer? In six months the puppy stops whining. ::rimshot::

I even see envy whining in DCUO because Hard Light isn't meta over Quantum or this piece of equipment doesn't kill like it did last patch like I think it should. Of course the rebalance in the gu50 was bad and took 4 PA ches to fix almost all the problems it had the whining about it still goes on on the pvp side.

So whining is no longer a valid excuse to not do something right. You are always going to tick someone off.

[Chados]

I really thought that Polar was going to be a sniper/LRM paradise. I was all ready to hate it. And I was so very wrong about that.

I'm enjoying Polar a lot and the biggest LRM rack I've ever brought on it is a LRM10...and that on only one mech. I tend to run SRM brawlers right now. And I find that Polar has plenty of sightline cover if you're packing radar deprivation. You have to have some patience to get in close with a SRM brawler but if it has some speed and you've got some derring-do it can be done-I've done it and I'm suck-tastic as a pilot. The terrain variations make maneuver all important and at least one longer range weapon (on the order of an AC/5) helps tremendously. And the group sticking close together helps too, as long as the lights and mediums fan out and cover heavies and assaults. When I'm in a medium, I find myself scouting and flanking a lot more than on other maps. It just happens that way. And "dark" doesn't mean that everything can only be seen in shades of gray or green-you can see, like Frozen City Night.

I like the map, honestly.

[Astrocanis]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Of course its PUGlife, I know that.

Yes, have you never been NARCed before with no one with ECM to run to and no cover available? It sucks. (That is literally alis l I'm saying, not saying it has to go, or it can't be effective, or saying that anything should be done to the game. Plain and simple: it sucks)

And there is no - as in NONE - difference between that and getting stuck on a wall with a dakka wolf around. But, apparently, that's ok because it's direct fire and takes skill. Right. Because dakka cockpit shake is completely different than LRM shake.

You think if you're in range you can run away from a dakka wolf in CQ? LOL.

I have, I think, died to LRMs about once in the last 6 months. And I'm not a very good player. For the cocksure egotists who are absolutely convinced that they are "better than LRM users", a hair of humility might be a good thing. Maybe.

[meteorol]

This thread... lol. So many cringeworthy posts.

[Galenit]

Vaegir Raiden, on 22 January 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Break the line of sight and the LRM will stop.... Except for NARC..

NARC is a problem on this map?

Too bad ams is bad and not meta and would cost the lemmings one of their heatsinks or lasers and its not in the metamechs they copy. Maybe they are that l33t that they even dont know that ams kills the narc beacon and the narcer must go under 200m to maybe stick the narc against a single ams.

Tier 1 master race get killed by a new player with a bad weapon is funny.
Tier 1 master race crying a river about it is sad!

[Bishop Steiner]

Adiuvo, on 23 January 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

YOU sound a LITTLE bit ANNOYED

As for competition...

http://mwomercs.com/...500-cash-prize/
https://mrbcleague.com/
https://www.reddit.c...charity_series/

it's starting to shape up, for sure (for better or worse) but it's still got a long way to go before I think it's going to move the needle in the e-sport world. Even though I have zero interest in Esports (honestly wish they'd call it something else...it's as much a sport as poker or chess, but whatever) I am curious to see how this plays out, return on investment, etc.

When people start living off playing MWO, I'll start considering the "oh so serious" attitude a lot more justifiable at that point.... though keep it out of the solo queue...let us casuals have our fun, you have yours.

1Grimbane, on 23 January 2016 - 01:41 AM, said:

from some of what i've seen from the "comp" players ... they are the guys delving into the raw mechanics of the game so they can optimize drop decks to the max... makes sense in my book. understand the limitations of your equipment and use it to the fullest potential possible. that means getting into heat scale values hit reg crap, hitboxes, ghost mechanics the list goes on

Except that most really don't. You have some definite trendsetters in MetaLandia, but most are just followers with good reflexes. (and lots of time on their hands for practice, and of course the competitive mindset). Some guys are really really into the mechanics of what works, and those guys do understand the game. A lot though? Copypasta and run. Still great players, not taking anything away from that, but doesn't inherently mean you understand how to balance anything, either.

Some do, some don't, just like casuals. Probably a higher percentage of Comps do, but many who do post demonstrate they don't. Just like there are Casual players here who pretty consistently show they DO get the big picture of what's wrong and what's needed.

Problem is, both sides have our bias, both our agenda, whether we admit or even realize it ourselves. (human nature 101)

meteorol, on 23 January 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

This thread... lol. So many cringeworthy posts.

and so many postworthy cringes.......

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 January 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[FalconerGray]

Just had my first drop on Polar Highlands and it was excellent. I was running a 6xERSL Jenner IIC and found that I was able to move fluidly from front to flank and back without any drama.

The match started and we snaked our way through the network of valleys until the two teams met. The long range guys traded whilst the short and mids carefully managed their position, exercising great patience. A Huggin and I noticed a Cicada trying to cut around to our flank, we cornered him and cut him down. We repositioned to the main force, adding support as the distances had closed, but then returned to the outside to take out a Raven that was sniping from the enemy rear.

After taking him out, we started to move in on the enemy force. Our shorter ranged mechs had rotated around, but the longer ranged guys had held position and kept the enemy busy, allowing it to come together as a proper flanking movement, rather than a mindless circling. Together we tightened the noose and won the match 12-6, although it felt much, much closer and was hotly contested the entire time.

Easily the best MWO experience I've had in a year, perhaps more. Top marks from me so far.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kjudoon, on 23 January 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

And that is how metabuilds happen and wreck games.

Only way to combat this? Add randomness like cone of fire. Random percentage chances and uncertain ranges that cannot be controlled or predicted. Drives them crazy.

The comp teams will have this figured out soon enough in an ocd minute.

and doesn't even need to be drastic cof or anything. Even situational ones that add immersion would do a lot... it's just amazing how much "skilled" people get furious if there's anythign removed from their control.... except that real skill is understanding that there are always factors outside your control, and finding ways to minimize and overcome them.

But don't tell that to a buttonmasher.

[Monkey Lover]

Lol this thread still going? First map to come out where being a light is a good thing and its "cry cry my timber can't get to all the caps in seconds"

[Bishop Steiner]

Monkey Lover, on 23 January 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

Lol this thread still going? First map to come out where being a light is a good thing and its "cry cry my timber can't get to all the caps in seconds"

too many small laser executioners have to wait too long to shoot, I guess.......?

[Bishop Steiner]

Maybe it's the jerk in me, but now I'm kinda hoping the whole $100k tourney is played on Polar Highlands, lol.....

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Maybe it's the jerk in me, but now I'm kinda hoping the whole $100k tourney is played on Polar Highlands, lol.....

If u was invited to play that, I'd have my team bring 6 mechs with TAG and NARC, and 6 LRM boats.....


That being said, I just don't get the hate for RNG's that will affect accuracy.... I mean the real world not every shot is perfect, you will generally hit in the area you were aiming...

[Stat1cVoiD]

Gman stated everything clearly from a/his competetive point of view and - regarding this standpoint - everything he said is true. And 95 % of all posts in this thread don't even try to contradict his arguments, but just blindly flame him for playing competetively and judging a map around those factors.
The map does indeed favor high hardpoints immensely and punishes low mounts harshly. Even if you find a corner to peek within the hills, the shot might still land in the next hill. And yeah, you can go to some of the few buildings to compensate for this problem, but that still means that a chassis with high hardpoints is way more flexible in picking its position than one with lower ones. Other maps are way more flat and punish suboptimal convergence considerably less.
Brawl loadouts can work if your opponent also runs mostly mid or shortrange builds and there can happen some really nice fights up and down the hills. If however one teams consists mostly of ERLL boats and decides to kite and snipe you, there is just not enough cover to close the 900m gap without opening up to their LoS over and over again and getting widdled down without any chance to fight back.
LRM Cheese is real. Period. Cover is just not good enough and I am again not talking about 1 or 2 LRMtards who wait blindly behind a hill for a light to kill em, but about 5 to 6 boats which kite you to your doom.
If played halfway decent, QKDs or BLRs go just completely ham on this map.
And this has little to do with "thinking" or "tactics", but with the fact that this map offers extremely open 360° firing lanes on a lot of spots for mechs with high range and hardpoints. You don't have to be a brilliant mind or a master tactician to realize you just have to move 400m to the left to look into a certain trench. As long as your range is high enough its extremely easy to lock your enemy down in a lot of spots, because of how linear a lot of thetrenches are laid out.
So imho most of Gmans criticism is justified. If you however say you like the map because you like sniping, SkillRMs, Snow or running for several minutes without seeing a single enemy, thats your personal preference and fine... But it doesn't change the fact that the map is imbalanced from a competetive standpoint: JJs are mostly useless, ERLL and LRM reign supreme if played halfway decent and Brawl or Midrange Builds can become pretty obsolete. If you like playing on huge maps or not however is just personal preference.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Vaegir Raiden, on 23 January 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

Blah, blah blah, more blah?

Just that THESE PLAYERS have GOOD REFLEXES and AIM doesnt make them have UNDERSTANDING of the game or hell even TT/BT universe. BET most of them don't know anything about it.

YOU say they DO KNOW about the game. WHICH i agree on SOME POINTS. BUILDING, having idea's of cover, tactics and more but that's something you see in EVERY OTHER GAME.

About mechanics or hell even gameplay? N.O.P.E.

Some COMPs units are TOTAL TOOLS. I saw enough Quickdraws with unit names above them pressing JJ bar alot and boating/build ON/NEAR QUIRKS.
I rest my CASE



You dont make sense. Because winning majority of the time equals SKILLS? Eh...OK.

Just because you may have played TT doesn't mean you know anything about MWO....