Honestly have not experienced lurm rain myself, i assume only when narced its a major issue or with a tall mech.
Starting to 'accept' the map, but it still lacks any form of design, cover, assets, tactical....
It does have tactics, cover... There are so many places to bunker down for a fight. Some of my best games have been in my 2xsrm4 commando with only 297 range. I've pulled off sniping, brawling, being the squirrel, peeky poking.. The games where it's a stomp are where the team hasn't bothered to gain or utilise information. This alone makes it one of the best mwo maps for me.
I think Gman gas maybe just jumped the gun. If he likes MWO, he'll learn to love it, not that anyone else should give a crap anyway..
;p
Point 1 - He doesn't like spending a lot of time maneuvering before the fight starts. I do. If the match doesn't start by both teams walking for 2-4 minutes, then this obviously means you'll have a pretty good idea of where the other team is. If teams start really close to each other and the fighting starts within 60 seconds, then scouts have a fairly limited purpose. My favourite aspect of Polar Highlands is that scouts actually have to work a little bit to locate the enemy, unlike pretty much every other map out there.
Point 2 - Caps are bad. Well, blame the god damn game modes. Not the map. We don't need sucky maps that are tailor-made for sucky gamemodes.
Point 3 - LRMs and sniping. Similar to the point above. LRMs in MWO need to be changed. Map designers shouldn't limit themselves to how LRMs work today. For one thing, getting a target lock on a moving target 800 meters away should be difficult as hell and require some slick aiming skills. But in MWO, it's the easiest thing in the world. Not the map designer's fault. Fix LRMs and this map instantly becomes a lot more fun to play. Less easy-mode LRM boating.
As for sniping... on pretty much every map we've had so far, there has been an easy way to avoid sniping. The solution Gman offers (add more cover) has already been done on other maps. Forest Colony 2 is a good example of a fairly flat map with cover that prevents LRMs and sniping from being too effective. But we already have that. Now it's time for something else.
I am so tired of people screaming "I'm comp so I know what I'm talking about!!!!" Never mind that other "comp" players love the new map.
Seriously, you like the old maps better, VOTE for them! Instead, literally everything PGI does is wrong according to these "comp" players. I have an idea, use your "comp" player tourney winnings, buy the IP, start your own damn software company, and do it right.
This is the problem with online games and "competition" players. They assume that because their entire lives revolve around said game, their opinion is somehow more than anyone else's and the game should conform to how they like to play and their opinion.
My answer to that is you can suck a fat one, I don't give a crap what your KDR is in an online game.
It truly does amaze me how no matter how good PGI does, there is always someone somehwere that has something to complain about. Another thing this shows is that the comp community and what the rest of the community wants are 2 totally different things.
Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time
Posted 22 January 2016 - 07:06 AM
Skoll, on 22 January 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:
This is the problem with online games and "competition" players. They assume that because their entire lives revolve around said game, their opinion is somehow more than anyone else's and the game should conform to how they like to play and their opinion.
My answer to that is you can suck a fat one, I don't give a crap what your KDR is in an online game.
and the problem with "competitive gamers"?
They state time and again, by their posts, that they have zero use for immersion (heck most turn their video settings to pong levels for that "edge"), and so anything that adds actually immersiveness and real war feel to a wargame ...is "bad". And anything that reduces what they consider "skill" (aka ability to click a pixel totally unimpeded) is bad. (Funnily this is the antithesis of a skilled operator IRL...where real skill is acknowledging the factors outside your control, and adapting and overcoming it to succeed at your mission anyhow). Basically, as near as I can tell, the only thing they live for is epeen, which is fine, I suppose.. But since they represent like...1% of the playerbase of most games?
I'm frankly shocked at how many "comp" people can'0t get a hang of this map. I expected the hate to come from the usual ADHD CoD noobs who need that instant buttonmashing gratification, not self proclaimed Tryhard Overlords who should embrace maps that require thought and maneuvering.
But the forums are doing a good job of reminding me that just because you got good twitchy fingers and can copypasta lemming builds... doesn't mean as much as some of our dear comp overloards try to proclaim (oh, he's on a comp team, he automatically understands the game's balance, code, etc better than anyone else... lol bullcrap)
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 January 2016 - 03:59 PM.
The new map is fine, tryhards just mad it upsets their meta. God forbid you have a map that tries to make everything viable and introduce some ******* maneuver warfare.
All this crying because people can't figure out that if you stand and trade fire you'll lose. Of _COURSE_ a comp player is going to complain about a map that makes his cookieecutter build obsolete. It renders his metamechs list a little outdated and in flux and will require more thinking from players about what a good load out is and how to move around the map. They add a map that's FINALLY not "Run to set location and trade." and requires you to use the meat between your ears and suddenly it's horrible? Bah.
Let me rephrase that quote, too:
"Polar Highlands is the best map in the game for anyone who doesn't like to play MWO EXACTLY LIKE I DO."
Because the typical meta builds don't work and "Comp" players are having a hard time adjusting does not make the map bad. Here is my suggestion to so-called comp players complaining: "Try harder."
Edit: Never thought i'd like a post by Skoll, but he's right. The map requires you to move around and even *gasp* cede ground to your enemy sometimes for position and cover. It requires you to be tactically aware of the terrain, not just position.
Aren't "comp" players the reason we have the terribly designed CW maps?
As if the only competition in the game should be deathball vs firing line - ignore tactical freedom - ignore mission objectives - if its not firing line vs deathball its not worth playing.
Aren't "comp" players the reason we have the terribly designed CW maps?
As if the only competition in the game should be deathball vs firing line - ignore tactical freedom - ignore mission objectives - if its not firing line vs deathball its not worth playing.
Don't know about CW but, according to Paul, comp players are getting a first look at the 1v1, 2v2, and 4v4 maps in order to get their input before they go to art.
This is the problem with online games and "competition" players. They assume that because their entire lives revolve around said game, their opinion is somehow more than anyone else's and the game should conform to how they like to play and their opinion.
My answer to that is you can suck a fat one, I don't give a crap what your KDR is in an online game.
Relaxation and meditation are great. However, MWO doesn't allow for that. When I need to relax, I head off into the black for conquest...
Otherwise I'm in a robot smashing people.
What I find hilarious is the attacks towards "comp" players. Myself, for instance, I'm not part of a Clan or team and haven't been for over a year. I PUG only. But you'd be wrong to assume that because I'm PUG only I don't care about winning. I do care! I care a lot! I hate losing. I continually strive to push myself to do better--to iron out my weaknesses and hone my abilities as a Mechwarrior.
I also don't play this game nonstop.
But make no mistake, I don't look down upon those who are members of units who do strive to win leagues. I used to be one of them--who knows, maybe someday I will again when my family's medical issues sort themselves out and I get published. In the meantime, I'll continue to try as hard as I can in PUG games to win every single drop.
Gman was just expressing his opinion. He happens to be a really good player, too. He's probably better than most. But what I read from his post did not seem like, "Hey! I'm high and mighty! I'm better than you, plebs! Sit down, peasants and listen to what your Lord has to say!"
No, what I read was quite reasonable.
So before this thread becomes some "Comp players are Ev1l d3v1lz!!!!!!111111111" sit back and look in a mirror. Perhaps the haters need to realize they're being more unreasonable than those they hate.
Besides, in the end, is trying to win such a bad thing? The whole team benefits by winning. Everyone makes more c-bills, they get more xp and they don't get to stare at some nasty death screen with John T. Baggins standing over your 'mech making nasty moves.
Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:
. Basically, as near as I can tell, the only thing they live for is epeen, which is fine, I suppose.. But since they represent like...1% of the playerbase of most games?
The problem, as I see it, is that they may represent a mere 1% of the player base, they are the most vocal and for whatever reason have the most influence on Devs. I mean in the case of MWO didn't (doesn't) PGI have a goal of making this an E-sport? Have they not dipped their toes into comp league play? They are not doing these things for no reason. They are doing it because those 1%-ers are who they listen too, for good or ill.
It truly does amaze me how now matter how good PGI does, there is always someone somehwere that has something to complain about. Another thing this shows is that the comp community and what the rest of the community wants are 2 totally different things.
No, I think we want the same things. Good games. We simply have different perspectives on what that means. Consider this, most "comp" players jump in their heavy mechs to quickplay. They know assaults are too slow and meds and lights have no weaponry. All the sudden there is a map where lights have A USE and the comps have to rely on said light and we have problems. Now he doesn't want to jump in his raven, he won't get his huge damage numbers. Now he has to rely on some lesser player to get his points. He could stay in group Q, since we all know no "real" player uses lrms in group Q... No, instead the whole map needs to be reworked obviously.
I do feel badly for assault mechs on this map, as its that much harder for them to get into position and, in pugland, people run away from them even more than normal.
I feel bad for conquest points.
I've never cared for the high mount meta, but that's NOT a map problem. Its a balance problem.
Other than that, this map is a breath of fresh air compared to the central point circle jerk we have in almost every other map.
PGI should do the exact opposite. Instead of getting the "comp" player's input, they should be looking to the lower tiers for input. After all, the "comp" players will simply adapt (so sayeth a L33T to me once) so their opinion doesn't matter.
I do feel badly for assault mechs on this map, as its that much harder for them to get into position and, in pugland, people run away from them even more than normal.
Had a game today where our assaults fell behind. I opened chat and typed in "Wait for the assaults, guys." and everyone went to the installation in the right H line near the clearing. We regrouped, they took the lead and we moved out. A little communication goes a long way~ People actually do want their assaults with them
Mister Blastman, on 22 January 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:
Besides, in the end, is trying to win such a bad thing? The whole team benefits by winning. Everyone makes more c-bills, they get more xp and they don't get to stare at some nasty death screen with John T. Baggins standing over your 'mech making nasty moves.
No of course not, we all play to win and have fun while we're doing it. The problem with a lot of comp players (And no not all of 'em) is a lot DO think their opinion means more, and that the map is bad because it's not lane based. Or a 'Mech is bad because of it's hardpoint location, or that weapons need to be rebalanced in a particular way or in a specific manner.
Remember: Comp players want to win at all costs. And if that means influencing and pressuring the devs to adjust the game to them, they'll try it.That's when it becomes a problem, just look at this thread asking for a map to be removed or altered because a few, a TINY, INSIGNIFICANT number of people in the grand scheme of things find their laser vomit builds obsolete. "But I'm T1!" they cry, like that makes their opinion mean more.
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M i n i MT, on 22 January 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:
