100 replies to this topic

[cSand]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 January 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

I haven't called him out on the forums since I don't know what his job title and purpose is, but if I were to meet him face-to-face I wouldn't have an issue letting him know some of his/their ideas are pretty ******* stupid... But then again, I don't think damned near any veteran on this forum has an issue with face-to-face confrontation.

Hard to say. Generally speaking the biggest internet mouths are the guys you see sipping their beer in the corner, talking to nobody

not saying any of the fine gents in this thread are that guy, but ya know

I like to think most of us, in the real world, have some semblance of manners

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 25 January 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

The other option was to fire Paul.

I like that option.

If only we could put it to a vote... because... "vote early, vote often".

When "normalizing" LPL back before the "official launch" equated to "a random nerf"... you deserve to be criticized (this includes the infamous banishment from balance with the 2 second CERLL nerf that was virtually immediately hotfixed out soon after).

Edited by Deathlike, 25 January 2016 - 10:29 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

cSand, on 25 January 2016 - 09:30 PM, said:

Hard to say. Generally speaking the biggest internet mouths are the guys you see sipping their beer in the corner, talking to nobody

not saying any of the fine gents in this thread are that guy, but ya know

I like to think most of us, in the real world, have some semblance of manners

I have manners-ish. I worked retail for about a year and was damned good at sales. But I'm also usually that guy in the bar floating from group to group and table to table and interacting with pretty much everyone. And most people are pretty well behaved, at least superficially.

Like I always say, you can find out more about sometime over a beer than any other way

Then I have those days I turn my phone off, log off Steam, and either pay Skyrim or read a good book for a few days.

[Lyoto Machida]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 January 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

I haven't called him out on the forums since I don't know what his job title and purpose is, but if I were to meet him face-to-face I wouldn't have an issue letting him know some of his/their ideas are pretty ******* stupid... But then again, I don't think damned near any veteran on this forum has an issue with face-to-face confrontation.

I'm no former soldier but I've trained and sparred with pros in Thailand. I've seen Paul in person and he's not exactly a particularly threatening looking guy...I mean, he's a game dev after all so I'm not sure I'd have any qualms about letting him know how he's doing as the Balance Czar.

I did run into the head of IGP at the SF launch event and told him ghost heat was a bad idea. He told me to take it up with the guy on stage at the time (Bryan Ekman?) lol.

[Khobai]

Quote

If only we could put it to a vote... because... "vote early, vote often".

right because everyones real life job should be at stake based on what a bunch of forum geeks think, lolol.

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

right because everyones real life job should be at stake based on what a bunch of forum geeks think, lolol.

This time, I'm willing to allow this particular exception.

[feeWAIVER]

ghost heat is fine. why are we complaining about it?

[Sigilum Sanctum]

feeWAIVER, on 25 January 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

ghost heat is fine. why are we complaining about it?

EDIT: Why the **** is Imgur dying on the forums.

By the way, no its not.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 25 January 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 25 January 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

EDIT: Why the **** is Imgur dying on the forums.

By the way, no its not.

Explain why it isn't fine?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Cone of Fire mechanic, and aim time system to reduce the effectiveness of an alpha's Pinpointness.

Chain fire is PP, and it should increase with every weapon fired.

Not unlike every shooter game ever that uses a CoF style mechanic, some are more pronounced then others, but it just serves to make the game skillbased with a small bit of RNG and trigger control ability.

One of the most fun mods was Project Reality, and that game actually had pretty high inaccuracy on weapons and long aim times on the guns, it made it fun because you didnt die instantly and you kinda felt like you were actually in a fire fight. It gave that adrenaline rush, sorta OH **** feeling, when being shot at.

MWO needs that kind of feeling. Right now, MWO's only feeling is that feeling you get when your walking down a dark alley and a Terrorist with an AK47 steps out from behind a garbage can and you hear the hammer rack and just know your ******* dead and there isnt **** you can do about it....

Its sad when im walking around that battlegrounds and my max armored warhawk cant take more then like 3shots from the AI before its completely cored out. I can twist all I want, but in the end, the mech gets wrecked. THen, given the RoF on weapons and the ability to rapidly fire everything, you cant do anything but dive for cover as slow as you can and try to poke out somewhere else, where the AI will simply turn and blow your face off....

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 25 January 2016 - 11:13 PM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

feeWAIVER, on 25 January 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Explain why it isn't fine?

Because its an inherently flawed and arbitrary system that still doesn't do what its intended?

Oh woopee you can't run 6 PPC stalkers anymore.

*6 LL stalker walks by*
*Standardized 2LPL 4ERMED laser vomit TBR coughs in the background*
*5UAC5 Dire Whale shuffles over a hill*

gee Ghost Heat sure killed boating high end weapons.

Hyperbole aside, at this point in the games history a much more intuitive system needs to replace Ghost Heat. I'm now starting to learn towards a comprehensive heat scaling system with penalties enacting at 75% and above. Nothing stupid like a random chance to ammo explode and kill you, but something to kick you in the shin a little bit. Maybe something like 5% movement penalty, HUD flickering or disabling, heat dissipation problems. I could go on.

The fact remains that Ghost Heat is a band aid system. Russ/Paul/Bryan or who ever the **** needs to stop pussyfooting around and just address the problem at is core.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 25 January 2016 - 11:12 PM.

[kesmai]

Sized/size restricted hardpoints are a way to reduce boating and get rid of ghost heat.


the "because you can" mentality is fine, but it brakes the game mechanics.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

kesmai, on 25 January 2016 - 11:17 PM, said:

Sized/size restricted hardpoints are a way to reduce boating and get rid of ghost heat.


the "because you can" mentality is fine, but it brakes breaks the game mechanics.

That's better.

I'm on the fence about sized hardpoints. When I was younger I never had the opportunity to play the older MW games, but after playing through MW4M about 6 months ago I firmly say meh. Some chassis' felt gimped, others felt like they needed to be MORE gimped. IDK.

[DerMaulwurf]

cSand, on 25 January 2016 - 09:00 PM, said:

You know, I'm sure I've said this before

but calling out staff personally, is about as unclassy as it gets.

I love you guys, but I guarantee if you actually met Paul, you would not have the sack to tell him to his face he should be fired. You would wither like a peen after a day in the Atlantic ocean and be like "hi" smile and wave

It's like that mean girls movie, but on a e-forum.

We're talking about the guy who found it necessary to nerf the AC/2 three different times.

Oh and a PSA: The 6PPC Stalker was a gimmick. The actual meta-mechs were the 4PPC stalker and the 3PPC+Gauss Highlander. PPCs were also cooler, faster and didn't have a min-range back in their heyday. But of course it's ghost heat and only ghost heat that rode to the rescue. Thank god it's blocking the almighty 3ER-PPC mech from taking over the meta.


On topic: A proper heat ceiling (as in no additional heat capacity from HS) and some heat penalties beyond the binary state of shut-down against utterly fine would have gone a long way to curb alphas of hot weapons, not only in arbitrarily chosen ghost heat groups.

[LordNothing]

ghost duration. you start stacking beams, and the reactor has a hard time keeping up, so the beams burn longer. this would also lengthen the total cycle time and lower dps. this mechanic would primarily effect energy weapons with the possible exception of ppcs (these would manifest as ghost cooldown) and flamers (which might just be exempt).

other weapon types would have their own mechanics. autocannons for example might have recoil effects that throw off aiming. they really shouldn't overheat at all with the exception of ac20s or builds with a lot of guns. recoil would stack, more guns more crosshair shake. you could either chain fire or fire a salvo and wait for the shake to stop. this would of course require acs and lasers to be on equal footing.

then missiles. how about ghost spread. fill up the airspace, missiles spread out abit to avoid hitting eachother. i would only apply this to lrms and streaks though, regular srms are somewhat limited by the fact that they have very short range and you must lead moving targets. they need to be big hitters to work.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

How about we stop suggesting more "ghost" systems and PGI implements an actual heat scale?

[Red Shrike]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 25 January 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Its a similar situation to the ******* "suppression system" in Battlefield. I don't need an arbitrary RNGesus to make my sniper bullet shoot 30 degrees off angle to make me be "suppressed", If I'm keeping cover because someone is shooting at me, guess what? I'm ******* suppressed.

The less random ******** the better.

I have to add that such was the case in BF3. Since then they've admitted it was the wrong decision and have made it so (in BF4) that your aim starts to sway when suppressed rather than the bullets going everywhere.

[RedDragon]

Coralld, on 25 January 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

I do not know what other options they were looking at but what I do know is that Ghost Heat as it is called now was actually an idea from the community and was kind of popular at the time, also, there were accusations that PGI wasn't listening to the community and blah, blah, blah. So PGI decided to go with Ghost Heat as a way of killing two birds with one stone.

It was like

Paul: "Community, what should we do against PPC boating?"

Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Some single confused dude: "Ghost heat?"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"

Paul: "Oh, you all want an arbitrary, counter-intuitive, not lore-conform band-aid instead of a real solution? Say no more!"

[Red Shrike]

RedDragon, on 26 January 2016 - 02:28 AM, said:

It was like

Paul: "Community, what should we do against PPC boating?"

Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Some single confused dude: "Ghost heat?"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"
Community: "Proper heat scale!"

Paul: "Oh, you all want an arbitrary, counter-intuitive, not lore-conform band-aid instead of a real solution? Say no more!"

Community driven development in a nutshell.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well convergence isn't going to happen (servers can't deal with it) and neither is sized hardpoints (they aren't redesigning such a core part of the game 3+ years in), so if people want ghost heat to go away, they are going to need to look at other solutions.

We all know ghost heat isn't the best, it was just the easiest to implement with the way the game is made/runs. If a better way is thought up that is relatively easy to implement (not redesigning a core part of the game), I'm sure it would be considered.

Besides, people would be complaining when PGI buffed or nerfed the size of their favorite mech's hardpoints anyway."What!?! That should be a 2 crit energy slot, not a 1 crit energy slot!"