93 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Ragingdemon, on 26 January 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

The up front costs are too high.

Case and point, got 5 new people to play, all want to join me in ghost bear, but its too expensive simple to purchase AND to elite out. As someone ells said, IS can throw their engines around freely while Clans have to re buy every time too.

Your 5 friends would be playing with stock IS mechs for the cost savings?

A fully outfitted clan mech costs about the same as a fully outfitted IS mech. The clan mechs sticker price includes double heatsinks and often times endo/ff. If you want to build a comparable IS mech you need these upgrades as well.

Personally, I think the prices are fine as they are. The only reason to lower clan prices is if they stopped coming with any upgrades and had the option to add them on.

[TELEFORCE]

Again, the cost of each omnipod is also factored into each Clan OmniMech. That's where some of the unaccounted extra cost is coming from.

[Mahpsy]

pwnface, on 26 January 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

This is true, but it also assumes that you want the same engine in all of your mechs. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I typically run different engine sizes depending on the loadout for a particular variant let alone a different chassis.

Unlike us experienced players, new players don't want to grind for a new engine every time they get another chassis unfortunately.

Orkhepaj, on 26 January 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

another clan whine ...

I could care less about costs my self, this is about new player experience.

[N0MAD]

Drop decks..
Mastered drop decks right?
IS.. 12 cheap Chassis + 4 engines + 4 sets equipment.. plus if you want to nit pick, there is also the $ return on selling the 4 engines and sets of equipment you just pulled out.
Clan...12 expensive mechs..+ cost of equipment, unless you are going to run a stock loadout...yes some $ return here also
Guess wich would be cheaper?

Edited by N0MAD, 26 January 2016 - 04:43 PM.

[Orkhepaj]

Ragingdemon, on 26 January 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

I could care less about costs my self, this is about new player experience.

nah newbies dont need clan mechs , they get cheap mechs , and slowly upgrading it to be better , later they can buy clan mech
why give everything to the newbies at day1? it makes no sense

[Mahpsy]

Orkhepaj, on 26 January 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

nah newbies dont need clan mechs , they get cheap mechs , and slowly upgrading it to be better , later they can buy clan mech
why give everything to the newbies at day1? it makes no sense

This is why.

https://youtu.be/5LScL4CWe5E

The sense of reward from buying an IS vs Clan from my actual experience.

IS " Man I just got my black knight, its pretty good."

Clan " Finally got my shadow cat. I like it. WHAT? I have to buy 2 more for the elite? That's bull s***! Why would I choose clan over IS then?!"

Edited by Ragingdemon, 26 January 2016 - 04:48 PM.

[dario03]

Orkhepaj, on 26 January 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

another clan whine ...

It is a valid concern.

[Orkhepaj]

Ragingdemon, on 26 January 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

This is why.

https://youtu.be/5LScL4CWe5E

The sense of reward from buying an IS vs Clan from my actuall experience.

IS " Man I just got my black knight, its pretty good."

Clan " Finally got my shadow cat. I like it. WHAT? I have to buy 2 more for the elite? That's bull s***! Why would I choose clan over IS then?!

hmm it makes no sense for me , also the sound is irritating , and it has 0 proofs i wont take these as facts

quess what imho everybody hates that you need 3 mechs for the skills, it just forces you to buy mechbays , stupid move by the devs imho

[Y E O N N E]

It takes just as long to grind for the goodies on a complete IS 'Mech as it does to grind for an already goodie'd out Clan 'Mech.

I don't even play a new IS 'Mech until I've upgraded it any more.

[Lyoto Machida]

N0MAD, on 26 January 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Sure but if you are trying to Master 3 chassis it ends up much more expensive for the Clans, you can use that same XL and equipment on the 3 IS chassis to master but you need to buy 3 very expensive clan mechs to do the same, instead of you know 1 engine and 3 cheap chassis. That expensive engine can then be re used with your next set of chassis you want to master, but with clans its another 3 expensive mechs.
So over all Clans can be much more expensive to master.

Gruinhardt, on 26 January 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

True. But when you tire of playing the Black Knight you can take the engine out. Next mech you build using that engine costs far less.

And you can keep one Clan variant and run different omnipods configs on there to simulate all variants (except for CT hardpoints), while selling the other two variants you used to master the chassis.

Can't do a drop deck that way but you can't do a drop deck that way using the same IS XL engine on three mechs either.

[Dracol]

One thing that hasn't been brought up, the IICs.

Once available for c-bills, the clans will have an IS like option as introduction to clans.

[LordNothing]

id argue that the up front price you pay for is mechs is not the full cost. ive never encountered an is mech where i didnt have to spend at least 2 million on upgrades to make viable. and thats not even getting into equipment yet. throw in a new engine and its about even. is kinda lets you make payments, buy the mech you want, buy the engine you want, upgrade, equip. clan mechs are like an all expense paid package, you can just put on weapons and go.

[Lyoto Machida]

LordNothing, on 26 January 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

id argue that the up front price you pay for is mechs is not the full cost. ive never encountered an is mech where i didnt have to spend at least 2 million on upgrades to make viable. and thats not even getting into equipment yet. throw in a new engine and its about even. is kinda lets you make payments, buy the mech you want, buy the engine you want, upgrade, equip. clan mechs are like an all expense paid package, you can just put on weapons and go.

That's a good way to look at it...like a pay as you go mech plan lol.

[Y E O N N E]

I did the math, once and determined that I spent ~30 million C-bills to get my Locust 1E up to spec.

That includes the 'Mech, Endo, Ferro, DHS Upgrade, 3x DHS, XL190, 6x MedLas, MedLas Range Module, MedLas Cool-down Module, Radar Deprivation Module, Shock Absorbers Module, Target Info Module, one UAV, and one Air Strike.

There are recurring costs for those consumables.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 January 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

I did the math, once and determined that I spent ~30 million C-bills to get my Locust 1E up to spec.

That includes the 'Mech, Endo, Ferro, DHS Upgrade, 3x DHS, XL190, 6x MedLas, MedLas Range Module, MedLas Cool-down Module, Radar Deprivation Module, Shock Absorbers Module, Target Info Module, one UAV, and one Air Strike.

There are recurring costs for those consumables.

It's sad that modules can exceed the cost of the actual mech itself...

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 26 January 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

It's sad that modules can exceed the cost of the actual mech itself...

Well as PGI put it, the modules are end game content....

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 26 January 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Well as PGI put it, the modules are end game content....

But dat +10% Small Laser range endgame tho.

[Y E O N N E]

Small laser is fine at 135 meters. Small laser is not fine with a 2.25 second cool-down. It's not even fine with a 2 second cool-down. Needs something much closer to 1 second to be okay.

[El Bandito]

N0MAD, on 26 January 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Sure but if you are trying to Master 3 chassis it ends up much more expensive for the Clans, you can use that same XL and equipment on the 3 IS chassis to master but you need to buy 3 very expensive clan mechs to do the same, instead of you know 1 engine and 3 cheap chassis. That expensive engine can then be re used with your next set of chassis you want to master, but with clans its another 3 expensive mechs.
So over all Clans can be much more expensive to master.

You can just sell two out of three Clan variants in most cases since due to omnipod system single variant can basically have all the weapons it needs. You can't sell IS variants as easily since they are unique from each other. So in the end the prices are the same.


Also, CLAN BATTLEMECHS--which can be configured just like IS battlemechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 January 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[Lugin]

FupDup, on 26 January 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

I think that's because of engine costs...TT has engine costs increase by mech size, even for the same exact engine. A 300 engine on a 50 ton mech is cheaper in TT than that same 300 engine put in a 100 ton mech, etc.

Yep, scales linearly based on the two. So in this case, a 50 tonner and 100 tonner with same engine rating has the 100's engine cost twice what the 50's does.
The exact equation for a standard engine from Tech Manual p278: (5,000 x Engine Rating x Unit Tonnage) ÷ 75
For XL engines, multiply the standard engine's cost by four.

And don't forget that an omnimech costs 25% more than an identically loaded battlemech, due to its specialized construction, software, and gyro.