119 replies to this topic

[xTrident]

Parnage, on 02 February 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

...Huh, so people can be this jaded and distrusting.

It's a virtual handshake at the end of the match. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to think of it as some condescending retort and insult on how bad you are by all means but don't go ruining civility for the sake of your inability to accept a loss. The mental gymnastics to assume gg is some evil term meant to mock you is disturbing.


I've been on both sides, we all have. Don't be a punk, GG means GG. Don't read more into it then that.

GG stands for "Good Game"... I think the problem is some don't look more into it. Taking GG at face value when a 12 - 1 stomp is indeed not a GG for the losing team. Instead they need to look more into it and realize they're not necessarily saying that match was a good game, but rather a hand shake, or nice try, good playing etc...

Edited by xTrident, 02 February 2016 - 07:45 AM.

[Mystere]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 February 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

You are right, I don't have to change, but I did anyway.

With a salute, I can still accomplish what I intend without it getting spun negatively by anyone, and that just makes the message more accepting and less "confusing" to others. Overall my message is more important than how I voice it. The message is still intact with a salute (which is a universal sign of respect), so I feel it doesn't take away from what I am trying to say.

However, it doesn't mean I agree with what has happened to "gg" in the community and other communities. I'm willing to discuss and debate that here in the forums.

When it comes to in-game however, there isn't the time to explain my intentions of a "gg" or type a congratulatory message before the end match summary cuts me off (not to mention how tiring that would get after the 100th or 200th match anyway).

For in-game, the salute is fine. For the forums, I'll contribute to threads like this and voice my displeasure in how the community can twist a gestures meaning because they are angry and hurt.

I'm just so tired of political correctness and such things. Carried to the bitter end, no one will be allowed to open their mouth lest they offend someone.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mystere, on 02 February 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

I'm just so tired of political correctness and such things. Carried to the bitter end, no one will be allowed to open their mouth lest they offend someone.

+1

We can both agree on that.

[Moldur]

sometimes I'm not sure if they mean

gg close

or gg close


as in your team got shut out.

[Nostromodamus]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 February 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

+1

We can both agree on that.

+2.

Political Correctness is an insidious infringement on free speech under the guise of bettering society. It also leads to a secondary effect of making people have such a thin skin that they take major offence to two letters typed at the end of online games.

[Mister Blastman]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 February 2016 - 03:12 AM, said:

"GG Close" from a winning team on a 12-1 is a bunch of douchebaggery. I think everyone can agree on that one.

Still...
I remember when GG was more of a handshake at the end of a match, and not something a player on a losing team takes offense to or someone in a winning team intends to use as an insult. The good 'ol days of online gaming.

Anyway, I just try to avoid it now with a general chat salute "<o", and I'll "gg" my team. I will send a "gg" in general only if I felt it was a good hard fought match. Still, some don't see a 12-8 or 7-12 as a "gg" even if I do.

Sometimes you can't win unless you say nothing. Sad.

Well to be fair, even as far back as in 1997 "gg" was used as an insult. It was used in Quakeworld Team Fortress all the time to insult other players. As a former competitive champion StarCraft player, I'm sad to admit it but...

We used "gl hf" at the beginning of every match to insult the other player. It really meant, "good luck, you'll need it." I sometimes saw renditions of it such as, "gl gf" which mean, good luck, get (use your imagination).

And then there was gg at the end. Nine times out of ten the match lasted 7 - 9 minutes. It was a direct insult to the other player.

That was a long time ago. I was quite immature back in the day. I've come a long way since then. But the truth is, it was always an insult. It still is an insult.

In Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, where dueling was common, we'd say stuff like "good fight" to compliment the other player. "gg" wasn't used.

In MWO, I don't say "gg" unless it is a 12-8/9/10/11 drop or a ridiculous series of events that made it a nailbiting game for both teams.

Mystere, on 02 February 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

I'm just so tired of political correctness and such things. Carried to the bitter end, no one will be allowed to open their mouth lest they offend someone.

Political correctness needs to be purged.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 02 February 2016 - 07:57 AM.

[Mawai]

To be honest ... I will say gg or good game when it was a good game.

A good game is one in which things are close the game is well played by both sides until it tips and one side wins. 12:8 or more are often a decent game but not always since you can get results like that from both sides behaving like chickens with their heads cut off ... on the other hand the chaos from that sort of game can be fun too .

On the other hand, once it tips the game can end up 12:3 or 4 and still have been a good game whether I won or lost.

When my team performs well, I will often say good job or good work folks in team chat. It isn't worth saying anything that would make the other team feel bad since the odds are fair I will eventually play with some of those folks in another drop.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mister Blastman, on 02 February 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Well to be fair, even in 1997 "gg" was used as an insult. As a former competitive champion StarCraft player, I'm sad to admit it but...

We used "gl hf" at the beginning of every match to insult the other player. It really meant, "good luck, you'll need it." I sometimes saw renditions of it such as, "gl gf" which mean, good luck, get (use your imagination).

And then there was gg at the end. Nine times out of ten the match lasted 7 - 9 minutes. It was a direct insult to the other player.

That was a long time ago. I was quite immature back in the day. I've come a long way since then. But the truth is, it was always an insult. It still is an insult.

In Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, where dueling was common, we'd say stuff like "good fight" to compliment the other player. "gg" wasn't used.

In MWO, I don't say "gg" unless it is a 12-8/9/10/11 drop or a ridiculous series of events that made it a nailbiting game for both teams.

I never really noticed that or took it that way, but then again, I was much younger as well so maybe I was a bit naive. Overall, I still think it was not intended as an insult when I played MANY years ago.

Not to mention, there was a rather long absence in my online PC gaming. In the mid to late 90's I went from PC gaming to console gaming and stayed there till about the time Crysis 1 came out. Even then, I was doing most of my online gaming through a console and we had headsets. In all honesty, MWO was the first real big return to online PC gaming for me since the Quake 2 and Team Fortress Classic days on PC. I did play Starcraft I and II, but only in local network games.

I'm guessing something changed for some people during that large span, or I just figured a GG meant a good game. Again, gg was everywhere and no one complained about it back then. I would think if it was insulting, it would have been less common and garnered a lot more negative feedback.

[Funky Bacon]

saying GG to a bad game is like saying "lovely weather today" when you see a person standing soaked and alone in a hurricane storm with no umbrella or rain clothes and you yourself have perfect protection for this type of weather.

[Evan20k]

No bad games, only bad sports.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Funky Bacon, on 02 February 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

saying GG to a bad game is like saying "lovely weather today" when you see a person standing soaked and alone in a hurricane storm with no umbrella or rain clothes and you yourself have perfect protection for this type of weather.

I'll agree with that. The OP's original example was a "GG Close" to a 12-1 stomp. We ALL know what that was intended to mean.

The real issue is, if the match is 12-7 and somone says "gg", does that automatically mean he is mocking the other team? Does that warrant "bg" responses or other negative responses? Hard to say. In my eyes, a 12-7 game isn't that bad, but to somone else, their team was a failure. Heck, I've seen teammates MF our own team over general chat because they died...AND WE WERE WINNING AND WON! lol. There are a lot of bad sportsmen out there that unless things go perfectly, everyone sucks.

Also, as a side note, Although I do treat "gg" as a handshake, I also knew how people felt, so I never used "gg" in a huge rofl stomp (unless it was on reflex). That is also why I am training myself to use <o instead .

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 02 February 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 February 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

I'm guessing something changed for some people during that large span, or I just figured a GG meant a good game. Again, gg was everywhere and no one complained about it back then. I would think if it was insulting, it would have been less common and garnered a lot more negative feedback.

It didn't attract much negative attention because the average age of a gamer back then was in their early twenties. Nowadays, it is in the mid to late thirties. We just didn't care. When you hit middle age you tend to be a bit more cynical and skeptical. That comes with wisdom.

I don't think the not saying "gg" think in MWO is political correctness, I just think it is a matter of us knowing what the other players really mean now. You can say it... but the matchmaker might frown upon you and next game you'll be the one receiving it.

[Almond Brown]

People still have "All Chat" on in Pug? Really! Wow... lol

[xTrident]

MeiSooHaityu, on 02 February 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

I'll agree with that. The OP's original example was a "GG Close" to a 12-1 stomp. We ALL know what that was intended to mean.

The real issue is, if the match is 12-7 and somone says "gg", does that automatically mean he is mocking the other team? Does that warrant "bg" responses or other negative responses? Hard to say. In my eyes, a 12-7 game isn't that bad, but to somone else, their team was a failure. Heck, I've seen teammates MF our own team over general chat because they died...AND WE WERE WINNING AND WON! lol. There are a lot of bad sportsmen out there that unless things go perfectly, everyone sucks.

Also, as a side note, Although I do treat "gg" as a handshake, I also knew how people felt, so I never used "gg" in a huge rofl stomp (unless it was on reflex). That is also why I am training myself to use <o instead .

12 - 4 and less, and sometimes a 12 - 4 can be a decent game. But definitely anything better than 12 - 4 (if I'm on the losing team) and I have zero problems seeing "GG" pop up. Of course... I don't have a problem in general. It's just a game and good for the people I'm playing against to be good at MWO. Or rather, better than the team I'm on. (because I've recently had some great 1K+ damage games giving me confidence that I don't completely suck)

But a 12 - 7... Yeah, that's a pretty good game even for the losing team. And you have to consider a 12 - 7 probably means at least three if not all of the other teams mechs are probably pretty messed up which makes the game even closer.

[Darwins Dog]

The best part of the internet is that you can decide the tone and context of the comment yourself. When my team gets rolled, and the winners all say GG, I assume it was a genuine attempt to be sportsmanlike, and I say the same back to them. Who are they to argue?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Omygoodness…

Here’s some guidelines on how not to be butt-hurt.

When “GG close” is stated and the game is not close, the comment can be considered sarcastic/haughty. What should you do? Roll your eyes and move on.

When “GG”* is stated from the winning team and:

• the game is not close, you give the benefit of the doubt and reciprocate the gesture to signify that you acknowledge the better team. Accepting that you lost and are willing to admit to that builds good character.
  
• the game is close, you reciprocate the gesture to show good sportsmanship.

*Note: even though GG literally translates to ‘Good Game’, understand that it doesn’t exactly always mean that the game was good. And rather, it’s the modern way to show respect and sportsmanship.
If you are in disagreement with this, then it is to your own detriment. It would be best if you remained silent and realized that your angst is your own issue, lest you get in the way of others being considerate to each other.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 02 February 2016 - 08:45 AM.

[Ronan]

Personally, I take "GG" as nothing more than good sportsmanly acknowledgment of joint participation. "GG Close" I often take as a put down -- not necessarily aimed at me, but towards the other team. Maybe not, it might be genuine, but it could be hard to tell.

Also personally, I know that "gg" is an abbreviation. Its the internet, heaven forbid we type anything out!!! So one of my very few macros is one key to put "thanks for game" into all-chat. I wouldn't be able to play, win or lose, unless 23 other people also wanted to play. Stomp, or 12-11 nailbiter, I am happy that I was able to play giant stompy robits!!

Edited by Ronan, 02 February 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I prefer a hearty well done chaps over VOIP in those situations.

Still a 12 to 1 can be a good game if basically every mech on your team is near death.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 02 February 2016 - 08:57 AM.

[Hawk_eye]

No problem here with a GG at the game´s end.
If it was a 0/1/2:12 it feel it a bit questionable, but a 6:12 or better? Sure.
Hell, on 8+:12, I usually type a GG myself even though I have been on the losing team.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 02 February 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

I prefer a hearty well done chaps over VOIP in those situations.

I´d do that too, but the other team can´t hear that (or does that change at the game´s end?)

[FupDup]

Clothes game.