387 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 03 February 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

Except it's MS we're talking about here. They ain't exactly tight with Russ. As such, sometimes, context is everything.

Completely irrelevant.

It's favortism
It broke the rules
It changed a major landscape of CW as a whole

Now it's easy for the tinfoil brigade to say "Russ might say he doesn't like MS, but his actions prove otherwise"

No how to avoid situations like that?

Don't do it in the first place.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

You are 100% correct.

Perception is reality. it's something I tried to get PGI to understand years ago. I don't care what your intentions are, if the majority of your community has a different perception of it, the intentions don't matter.

I've say here for 3 months now listening to PGI and Russ in particular, blame "big units" for everything wrong with CW. Not once in ANY of that have I seen Russ or PGI stand up and take ownership for the fact that they've developed one of the most boring game modes in existence.

Want to know why nobody plays CW?
Because it's f**king boring! That's why. What part of the development process causes PGI to look at the ghost town of CW, see tons of players with no option other than ghost drops, and then decide "segregating queues will fix it"

It's nothing but an out of touch developer who constantly for 3 years now shows they're completely and totally inept at building a community and persistent world campaign game.

I fully agree with you on the state of CW being put at the feet of PGI, and on their lack of ability to build a community. However, until some drastic changes occur they and we have to work with what we have. Perhaps this particular situation could have been handled differently, but in the grand scheme of things this is barely a minor blip compared to a lot of the other things they do and say. If we want things to get better I think it would benefit us to pick our fights better.

RussianWolf, on 03 February 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

Actually, if they wanted to do this right, they would eliminate the waiting period all together. But it would entail them having more depth in another area with actual contracts being offered in a MRBC type environment.

If you are in a contract and someone comes along and offers you a better deal, then you should have the option of taking it (and hurting your rep with you current contractee and the board) or stay with your current assignment and improve your rep. The better your rep, the better your contract offers down the line. But it should be driven by risk/reward and not something arbitrary.

Now, is PGI capable of coding this????? That's debatable.

I agree a system like that sounds good, but it still doesn't prevent lopsided factions. If everyone is getting better contract offers to balance out the factions what is to stop them from all switching and ending up in the exact same boat only now they are less likely to switch again because they burned their bridges so to speak? Only give certain groups the more lucrative contract offers so only some will switch instead of most/all? That is essentially the same kind of shady backroom kind of deal that people are complaining about now with PGI and MS.

I just don't think PGI has the wherewithal to make a system like that and have it not end up convoluted and frustrating for the players. CW really needs to go back to the drawing board by first determining exactly what they want and what the players want. That is something that needs a lot more discussion and input than twitter or even a town hall discussion can provide.

[Mystere]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I've seen this reasoning but I don't have the reference. How do we know Russ doesn't like MS?

Did you miss this thread?

[Afuldan McKronik]

From this free switch, I would have to say that Russ doesnt actually mind them. Someone link this thread to his twitter already! xD

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 03 February 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

Did you miss this thread?

Ok, I see where he mentions them (and then allows them to do it anyways) but I don't see hate. Disappointment, maybe. But not hate.

[Aresye]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

If the answer to any of these questions is "no" then you have hit the root of the problem. With the history of PGI's "we balanced based on feedback from certain competitive players" you see why I'm miffed as this is just another example of doing what the comp crowd wants while ignoring casuals and lore enthusiasts.

While you and other self-proclaimed "casuals" will never admit it, who do you think a game developer is going to listen to more? Comp "Tryhard" Joe, who's likely going to try and find every possible advantage, and thus quickly expose crippling balance issues with the game, or Casual "Lore Fan" Timmy, who holds a two-decades old bias against the Clans since they were introduced during TT, plays a few hours a week at max, and who's opinion on balance is based off facing players that have little to no idea what they're doing?

Besides, it's not like PGI has actually been listening to the comp crowd. Far from it. If they had, the game would be pretty darn close to balanced at this point, although the casual crowd certainly wouldn't think it is, because their entire concept of balance is, "Can I take what I like to take and do well with it?"

Casual players and lore-enthusiasts wouldn't recognize balance even if it hit them in the face with a 10ft pole.

[Mystere]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

Ok, I see where he mentions them (and then allows them to do it anyways) but I don't see hate. Disappointment, maybe. But not hate.

I never used the word "hate". I used words like "disdained" and "does not seem to like",

[Khereg]

New question, if anyone's interested.

Russ did this as a one-off to help balance population in CW. You do or don't like how it went down. Whatever.

But, if you're Russ, does the tempest in a teapot that is this thread discourage you from doing it again in the future if a similar situation arises? Why or why not?

[Mead]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

New question, if anyone's interested.

Russ did this as a one-off to help balance population in CW. You do or don't like how it went down. Whatever.

But, if you're Russ, does the tempest in a teapot that is this thread discourage you from doing it again in the future if a similar situation arises? Why or why not?

I think it might, but not for the right reasons.

[CDLord HHGD]

Aresye, on 03 February 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

While you and other self-proclaimed "casuals" will never admit it, who do you think a game developer is going to listen to more? Comp "Tryhard" Joe, who's likely going to try and find every possible advantage, and thus quickly expose crippling balance issues with the game, or Casual "Lore Fan" Timmy, who holds a two-decades old bias against the Clans since they were introduced during TT, plays a few hours a week at max, and who's opinion on balance is based off facing players that have little to no idea what they're doing?

Besides, it's not like PGI has actually been listening to the comp crowd. Far from it. If they had, the game would be pretty darn close to balanced at this point, although the casual crowd certainly wouldn't think it is, because their entire concept of balance is, "Can I take what I like to take and do well with it?"

Casual players and lore-enthusiasts wouldn't recognize balance even if it hit them in the face with a 10ft pole.

You are just plain wrong here. PGI will listen to who spends the most and this dirty "timmy" causal has spent more than most. People who say TT influences wouldn't help balance don't know a damn thing.

[LORD ORION]

I heard mercstar has spies planted in PGI, and as such know of all upcoming events. It should be no surprise when they ask for favoritism.

Wait, is this the right thread for this?

[TexAce]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

New question, if anyone's interested.

Russ did this as a one-off to help balance population in CW. You do or don't like how it went down. Whatever.

But, if you're Russ, does the tempest in a teapot that is this thread discourage you from doing it again in the future if a similar situation arises? Why or why not?

Yes, because it renders the rules they set up useless
Yes, because it is a bad precedent which could lead to people or units who think they are important requesting even more.
Yes, because all other units who wait it out or pay the fee feel rekt now.

Edited by TexAce, 03 February 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[StonedVet]

They are in clan and asked for a hand. Boo hoo

Dumb drama is dumb plz find something constructive to do
K thanks

[Sandpit]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I've seen this reasoning but I don't have the reference. How do we know Russ doesn't like MS?

He's been pretty clear about it over the years on Twitter and a few responses in general. He just has a madon for all "big" units it seems because he seems to really think they're the reason CW is a ghost town.

Meanwhile, those of us not considered "favorites" post on the forums with ideas, suggestions, and feedback to be completely ignored. Then someone sends Russ a tweet and all of a sudden rules are broken, the game is fundamentally changed, and we still have a clueless company as to why CW is really a ghost town.

I wonder how many evenings Russ, the community manager, or PGI staff have spent ghost dropping in CW alongside small units?

[WarHippy]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

Maybe I should ask, just to get the facts straight....

Was MS charged the regular CBill penalty for breaking contract as per the rules of the game?
Was MS forced to wait the mandatory 3 day grace period that all the other units have to wait for?

If the answer to any of these questions is "no" then you have hit the root of the problem. With the history of PGI's "we balanced based on feedback from certain competitive players" you see why I'm miffed as this is just another example of doing what the comp crowd wants while ignoring casuals and lore enthusiasts.

This just doesn't seem like a good argument to me. All the big units are/were IS as such the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side were getting slaughtered, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the IS side were having a rough time actually getting matches because of overpopulation on their side. By allowing MS to move without delay the casuals and lore enthusiasts gained the benefit of having population issues decreased on the IS side, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side got some much needed organized reinforcements.

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Completely irrelevant.

It's favortism

No, it's not irrelevant. Call it something else, like this:

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

It broke the rules

but not "favoritism".

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

It changed a major landscape of CW as a whole

It's just a highly temporary fix to a bad situation.

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Now it's easy for the tinfoil brigade to say "Russ might say he doesn't like MS, but his actions prove otherwise"

Why care about the "tinfoil brigade"?

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

No how to avoid situations like that?

Don't do it in the first place.

Not everything is black and white. I see this as one of those exceptions. YMMV of course.

[Sandpit]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

New question, if anyone's interested.

Russ did this as a one-off to help balance population in CW. You do or don't like how it went down. Whatever.

But, if you're Russ, does the tempest in a teapot that is this thread discourage you from doing it again in the future if a similar situation arises? Why or why not?

No because they don't pay attention to what's said on here in the first place.

[TexAce]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

This just doesn't seem like a good argument to me. All the big units are/were IS as such the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side were getting slaughtered, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the IS side were having a rough time actually getting matches because of overpopulation on their side. By allowing MS to move without delay the casuals and lore enthusiasts gained the benefit of having population issues decreased on the IS side, and the casuals and lore enthusiasts on the Clan side got some much needed organized reinforcements.

The CW map looks like this for weeks now. Why didnt MS act earlier? Why now?

Some could say - heck I DO say it - they did it because they think Clans will be much stronger than IS next patch.

Oh god it would so good, if they let everyone switch but choose to not implement the balance changes and just change tonnage limits for both sides (Clans 260, IS 240) and call it a day. The tears, I can imagine them, I want to drink them.

Edited by TexAce, 03 February 2016 - 12:01 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Any time someone gets special treatment it's BS. Come on guys, this isn't rocket science.

"Hey, you do this thing to help us and we'll do you this favor". The implication being you wouldn't have gone Clan at all if not given special treatment?

Do you guys not understand how that looks and the inherent entitlement that carries? What you're doing is helping build a case for big units being a bad thing for the game. It's a bad choice and stupidly (people being what they are) will likely get more attention than the charity event (which is a good thing and very cool).

Don't do this kind of thing. When you try and leverage stuff like this for special treatment all you do is motivate everyone else to degrade the value of your leverage. Waiting three days to go Clans wouldn't have made a big difference. Saying you're too big to play be the same rules or that you need concessions to "do everyone a favor" doesn't make is a "favor". That is PGI doing YOU a favor because of an implied "or else".

[Mystere]

LORD ORION, on 03 February 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

I heard mercstar has spies planted in PGI, and as such know of all upcoming events. It should be no surprise when they ask for favoritism.

Wait, is this the right thread for this?

Yes, if you're a member of the tinfoil brigade.