387 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

TexAce, on 03 February 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

The CW map looks like this for weeks now. Why didnt MS act earlier? Why now?

Some could say - heck I DO say it - they did it because they think Clans will be much stronger than IS next patch.

Oh god it would so good, if they let everyone switch but choose to not implement the balance changes and just change tonnage limits for both sides (Clans 260, IS 240) and call it a day. The tears, I can imagine them, I want to drink them.

I'm not particularly interested in speculating on the motives of others and why they do what they do. Someone from MS earlier in the thread stated the reason they went IS was because a lot of their players wanted to play with their new Warhammer's, and that is as good an explanation as is needed(regardless of it being true or not). If you would rather take a more conspiratorial view on their motive so be it, but don't use that baseless assumption to attack MS or PGI for something that ultimately is a very minor issue.

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Missed my point. I'm not talking about matches in CW. I'm talking about what Sandpit said above. We casuals and lore enthusiasts constantly provide feedback on ways we believe the game can be improved and fixed only to be ignored and called dirty lore purists while PGI takes its leads from comp players who care very little about what Battletech/Mechwarrior actually is.

I'm one of you dirty casual lore purists, and I'm not seeing how this particular situation is an example of us being ignored. This situation was a quick/temporary solution to a problem with the existing system and has no bearing on the overall need for more long term fixes to both CW and communication issues with the devs. This was not some design decision that completely ignored the desires of the players, but rather a small/quick solution to current problems. Moving around a unit to help balance out factions isn't in the same ball park as making full blown game design changes be they for the better or worse.

[Sandpit]

Lowridah, on 03 February 2016 - 12:38 PM, said:

This still is an issue. One large clan switching doesn't just up and remedy anything. It's just a step towards a more balanced population. Other clans then smoke jag are hurting for numbers as well

They aren't MS though so it doesn't matter.

Marik could use more members, can I please have 100 million cbills and 1000 MC to bribe players to jump to Marik?

Hey, Liao is kind of light on players in the NA time zones. Can I switch to Liao during those hours and switch back to Marik in the evenings so that I can help "balance" the population?

I mean that's what's good for CW right?

[JaxRiot]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

But I'd say running a business sometimes requires you to do things that may be somewhat out of the ordinary for the sake of the greater good. I personally like that PGI is willing to assess the situation and make a judgment call that betters the game without suffering from excessive bureaucratic red tape.

You know what you get with red tape? The development progress they made with IGP at the helm...

As long as they use their powers for good, I'm ok with it. I wouldn't have cared if it was 228, KCom, SroT, SWOL or any other group that suggested it. The fact that it was -MS- is irrelevant. If it's -MS- supposedly benefiting from this that has you torqued, then I'd say your issue is your perception of -MS- and not the actual events that transpired.

After all, -MS- only offered. Russ accepted. If Russ had said no, we would have taken our vote as planned, let our contract expire, and moved on to the voted faction last night. We and the larger community would have suffered 3 days of limited matches in CW as a result. I personally think this outcome is better for everyone on the whole.

I dont think it benefits everyone as a whole. It really only benefits MS.

MS got a free faction switch with no penalties and seals to club becsuse of the over populated IS.

Edit- Not to mention the potential for much faster drop ques which translstes to much more cbill earnings.

You could argue that it gives IS opponents to fight but they Will only be on the SJ border so it doesnt benefit CW as a whole at all.

This only really benefited MS

Edited by JaxRiot, 03 February 2016 - 12:49 PM.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

I'm one of you dirty casual lore purists, and I'm not seeing how this particular situation is an example of us being ignored. This situation was a quick/temporary solution to a problem with the existing system and has no bearing on the overall need for more long term fixes to both CW and communication issues with the devs. This was not some design decision that completely ignored the desires of the players, but rather a small/quick solution to current problems. Moving around a unit to help balance out factions isn't in the same ball park as making full blown game design changes be they for the better or worse.

It's the perception and image that Russ is creating by doing this.

If you're in a large unit and toss around tons of money you can just get on Twitter and Russ will make sure you're well taken care of.

It's unprofessional
It sh*ts on every other player in this game not given the same treatment

It blatantly and factually shows that Russ is only going to listen to a certain few players while ignoring the majority of the community here.

In other words

Those who follow the rules PGI laid out for CoC, forums, etc. just get shown that there's no reason for them to follow those. Why should they? Just "be cool" with Russ on twitter and it won't matter.

g

[StonedVet]

For the most part of this thread I've been reading one pug after another complaining of seal clubbing. We've gone up against 228 and ms numerous times some of which were great matches while others were stomps. Maybe the butt hurt needs to be toned down. Even the best of teams gets stomped from time to time

[CDLord HHGD]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

I'm not particularly interested in speculating on the motives of others and why they do what they do. Someone from MS earlier in the thread stated the reason they went IS was because a lot of their players wanted to play with their new Warhammer's, and that is as good an explanation as is needed(regardless of it being true or not). If you would rather take a more conspiratorial view on their motive so be it, but don't use that baseless assumption to attack MS or PGI for something that ultimately is a very minor issue.
I'm one of you dirty casual lore purists, and I'm not seeing how this particular situation is an example of us being ignored. This situation was a quick/temporary solution to a problem with the existing system and has no bearing on the overall need for more long term fixes to both CW and communication issues with the devs. This was not some design decision that completely ignored the desires of the players, but rather a small/quick solution to current problems. Moving around a unit to help balance out factions isn't in the same ball park as making full blown game design changes be they for the better or worse.

Sandpit had an easy test for this. Take a group with 15 or less members and in addition, let their focus be on RP and casual play and ask to move "for balance". See what happens.

All I see is "big comp unit asks for change, PGI makes the change. Lets see what PGI does for non-comps other than put Battletech and Mechwarrior in the game title.

[Mead]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

unfortunately

I'll send my money to MS instead. They seem to be the ones running things anyhow.


Which wouldn't show anything we haven't already pointed out.

how about this instead.

Someone in a unit with less than 15 ask Russ to break the rules for them and see what he says.

I already did. No response.

[MischiefSC]

Khereg, on 03 February 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

But I'd say running a business sometimes requires you to do things that may be somewhat out of the ordinary for the sake of the greater good. I personally like that PGI is willing to assess the situation and make a judgment call that betters the game without suffering from excessive bureaucratic red tape.

You know what you get with red tape? The development progress they made with IGP at the helm...

As long as they use their powers for good, I'm ok with it. I wouldn't have cared if it was 228, KCom, SroT, SWOL or any other group that suggested it. The fact that it was -MS- is irrelevant. If it's -MS- supposedly benefiting from this that has you torqued, then I'd say your issue is your perception of -MS- and not the actual events that transpired.

After all, -MS- only offered. Russ accepted. If Russ had said no, we would have taken our vote as planned, let our contract expire, and moved on to the voted faction last night. We and the larger community would have suffered 3 days of limited matches in CW as a result. I personally think this outcome is better for everyone on the whole.

I get that you have a lot of excuses for why giving MS special treatment was OK and why you should get exceptions and benefits not given to others.

I'm saying this with genuine <3 here Khereg, please don't feel I'm attacking you but...

F**king stop it. Just stop. Go no further in that line of thinking. The moment you start thinking and feeling that you are any better or deserve special treatment compared to every other schlub in the game you start the transformation into entitled toxic self-important aholes.

Which isn't who you are. If MS is just another group of players like every other playing the same game in the same pool it's a good thing. We're all simpatico and while there's always salt over a big group or a successful group it's all good.

If however MS is not playing by the same rules or acts like and is treated like they are different/other/better it's going to get bad fast. Don't do that. Don't be those guys, don't try to make yourself seem better than everyone else, don't try and turn MS into a "them" as opposed to "us".

Which, make no mistake, is what these sorts of things are. I get that isn't the intent but it's still doing it. MS is in a dangerous position of being able to try and throw its weight around and get its way where other groups of players can't.

Don't go down that road. It leads to bad places and is just going to make the game suck. I get that you have reasons and justifications, every bad idea does. However when your position is "the rules of the game shouldn't apply to me because...." It's a bad one.

Stop it. Back up, reevaluate the position, don't do it again. No need to make a big deal about it just don't ever ever do anything like it again. Be an "us". Don't try to be a "them".

[Sandpit]

JaxRiot, on 03 February 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

I dont think it benefits everyone as a whole. It really only benefits MS.

MS got a free faction switch with no penalties and seals to club becsuse of the over populated IS.

You could argue that it gives IS opponents to fight but they Will only be on the SJ border so it doesnt benefit CW as a whole at all.

This only really benefited MS

pretty much

But I can almost guarantee you what the response to this will be (well eventually because nothing will get said until it reaches meltdown status because we're ignored otherwise here)

"We did what we needed to in order to help balance the game" then insert the usual generic "We're sorry, we're new at this, please forgive us" speech

I wasn't even really upset when first seeing this. I was just a little ticked, then I started reading and thinking back over the last 3 years.

Screw that. Dam skippy I'm pissed. I'm sick and tired of being blatantly shown (because even they aren't so out of touch that they'll say it) that Russ has a few "favorites" he listens to and everyone else in the community with ideas can go to hell because they're going to be ignored.

[CDLord HHGD]

Mead, on 03 February 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I already did. No response.

What unit if we may ask. You know, for SCIENCE!

[Sandpit]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Sandpit had an easy test for this. Take a group with 15 or less members and in addition, let their focus be on RP and casual play and ask to move "for balance". See what happens.

All I see is "big comp unit asks for change, PGI makes the change. Lets see what PGI does for non-comps other than put Battletech and Mechwarrior in the game title.

Since Russ seems to stick with the rhetoric that "I don't like big units and I want to make the game better for everyone not in those units", it should be an easy test right?

I mean, my unit is under 10 members.
That's RMA
that's it

Nothing more

So please explain to me how this (or any of Russ brilliant Phase 3 ideas for that matter) improve the game for me and players like me.

You can't, because it doesn't.

Wanna know how I know that?
Because I AM that casual player. I AM that small unit player. I AM that PUG. I AM that solo player.

Russ doesn't give two sh*ts about those players. Wanna know how i know that? Well because I've personally posted several links to various threads on the forums (not even mine sometimes) with robust ideas on how to help improve CW and MWO.

Want to know what the responses are?
Ignoring
Dismissed as unimportant
Dismissed as "can't do it to tech reasons"
Mocked openly without ever bothering to read it

Want to know why some feel ignored here?

That's why.

Want to know why people are pissed about this?
That's why

Want to know why people are, once again since this is PGI's trend, fed up with watching things like this take place?
That's why

[CDLord HHGD]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Since Russ seems to stick with the rhetoric that "I don't like big units and I want to make the game better for everyone not in those units", it should be an easy test right?

I mean, my unit is under 10 members.
That's RMA
that's it

Nothing more

So please explain to me how this (or any of Russ brilliant Phase 3 ideas for that matter) improve the game for me and players like me.

You can't, because it doesn't.

Wanna know how I know that?
Because I AM that casual player. I AM that small unit player. I AM that PUG. I AM that solo player.

Russ doesn't give two sh*ts about those players. Wanna know how i know that? Well because I've personally posted several links to various threads on the forums (not even mine sometimes) with robust ideas on how to help improve CW and MWO.

Want to know what the responses are?
Ignoring
Dismissed as unimportant
Dismissed as "can't do it to tech reasons"
Mocked openly without ever bothering to read it

Want to know why some feel ignored here?

That's why.

Want to know why people are pissed about this?
That's why

Want to know why people are, once again since this is PGI's trend, fed up with watching things like this take place?
That's why

HHGD is right there with you. We were large once, then treachery happened, and now after a year of retooling and rebuilding, we're able to have a presence again in CW. Lots of us are Lore enthusiasts and all we've seen is this game going farther and farther away from what Mechwarrior is supposed to be and catering to the comp crowd.

[Mead]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

What unit if we may ask. You know, for SCIENCE!

Apex Intergalactic, [APX], most of the 9 of us are just dirtylore lifetime gamer college buddies. Couple of others we katamari'd over the years.

https://twitter.com/...729651927781376

17 hours of silence and counting.

Edited by Mead, 03 February 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[StonedVet]

We are 61 but still worth a shot imho. Either way I have no complaints on this matter. Clan got a much needed player boost

[Davegt27]

I say let them move at no penalty

Let me explain

Back about a month or so Clan wolf made a march for Terra, Clan Wolf defeated half the inner sphere and surrounded Terra
I and other called out for tribute to be paid to Clan Wolf after all they pretty much won the game mode

Now from what I understand (I could be wrong) MS was a large part of that push to Terra

Of course this was proof that Clans where overpowered
The balance pass then hit like a ton of bricks with the Clan getting hit with major nerfs

But the big Merc units had moved on to the inner sphere and started to reap the benefits of the Clan Nerfs

Russ stated that he is happy with Clan IS balance but for the sake of testing we need some of the big Merc units to return to the Clans to see what effects the balance pass really had on the CW game mode

So we need MS to move back to the Clan side

Wait I know what you’re thinking
No one unit should be able to so effect a game mode
But remember we are training PGI how to make a game mode

We and they need to see what effect big units can have on a game

HTHs
David

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

What it really says at its core is "The rules don't mean anything. They're just placeholders and we apply them selectively. It doesn't matter that you spent your hours, money, etc. into something based on a set of rules because we'll only apply them when and where we want arbitrarily"

Rules were broken
Rules were arbitrarily broken without any discussion or commentary or explanation (I paid money just like they did, I'm sick and tired of not getting the same consideration they do. "They" being anyone, not specifically MS)
The entire landscape of CW, the map, the matches, player numbers, etc. were changed drastically by circumventing the rules.

I feel the same way about the voting nonsense we have now as I spent time and money playing under the set of rules given that allowed me to select the game modes I want to play and all maps were random. The difference is that I explained why I was frustrated and disliked the change, but instead of railing against PGI for being evil, or attack players that liked the voting system I simply stopped giving PGI my money and did so vocally.

Sandpit, on 03 February 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

It's the perception and image that Russ is creating by doing this.

If you're in a large unit and toss around tons of money you can just get on Twitter and Russ will make sure you're well taken care of.

It's unprofessional
It sh*ts on every other player in this game not given the same treatment

It blatantly and factually shows that Russ is only going to listen to a certain few players while ignoring the majority of the community here.

In other words

Those who follow the rules PGI laid out for CoC, forums, etc. just get shown that there's no reason for them to follow those. Why should they? Just "be cool" with Russ on twitter and it won't matter.

g

Like I said above I feel the same way about voting. Nobody asked me my opinion before hand and I feel pretty sh*t on by the change. I also question the perception created by implementing the voting system again when it had been tried before with enormous backlash. That to me is unprofessional and a real example of ignoring players and catering to those that whined the loudest about wait times. You didn't seem to care about that when that change occurred, but for some reason this particular event of little real relevance to the over all game is where you draw your line?

[Sandpit]

Lowridah, on 03 February 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

We are 61 but still worth a shot imho. Either way I have no complaints on this matter. Clan got a much needed player boost

yea but how exactly does that help CW as a whole?

how does that help the players in IS factions that are stuck fighting other IS factions? All it did was take a large number of active players away from us causing more ghost drop mechanics.

Make no mistake, this wasn't for the "good of CW".

[WarHippy]

cdlord, on 03 February 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Sandpit had an easy test for this. Take a group with 15 or less members and in addition, let their focus be on RP and casual play and ask to move "for balance". See what happens.

All I see is "big comp unit asks for change, PGI makes the change. Lets see what PGI does for non-comps other than put Battletech and Mechwarrior in the game title.

What exactly is a group with less than 15 players asking going to prove? If the reason he agreed to the swap was because of population problems moving a big group like MS is going to be more effective than moving for example WarHippy's Wombats which consists of me and 12 people that don't log on anymore.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

I feel the same way about the voting nonsense we have now as I spent time and money playing under the set of rules given that allowed me to select the game modes I want to play and all maps were random. The difference is that I explained why I was frustrated and disliked the change, but instead of railing against PGI for being evil, or attack players that liked the voting system I simply stopped giving PGI my money and did so vocally.

Please show me ANYwhere I've berated MS, their players, or anyone for that matter outside of pointing out why businesses like PGI and their presidents (Russ) don't do business like this.

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Like I said above I feel the same way about voting. Nobody asked me my opinion before hand and I feel pretty sh*t on by the change. I also question the perception created by implementing the voting system again when it had been tried before with enormous backlash. That to me is unprofessional and a real example of ignoring players and catering to those that whined the loudest about wait times. You didn't seem to care about that when that change occurred, but for some reason this particular event of little real relevance to the over all game is where you draw your line?

Now please point out on Twitter where a lone player asked Russ for Voting and it was implemented.

It didn't happen.

It did in this case though.
That's the difference.

[CDLord HHGD]

WarHippy, on 03 February 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

What exactly is a group with less than 15 players asking going to prove? If the reason he agreed to the swap was because of population problems moving a big group like MS is going to be more effective than moving for example WarHippy's Wombats which consists of me and 12 people that don't log on anymore.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Sandpit already debunked the "for the good of the game" theory. It'll prove if WarHippy's Wombats will get the same fair opportunity that MS did. Again, this isn't against MS, this is against PGI and their treatment of the comp crowd versus their treatment of us dirty lore purists.