1094 replies to this topic

[DoctorDetroit]

Nope! Cone of fire is a terrible idea. Nerf laser duration if pinpoint vomit is such a problem. No need for a convoluted game mechanic like cone of fire. Especially when it would take up mucho game resources, while also causing "another" much bigger mass exodus of players.

Edited by DoctorDetroit, 08 February 2016 - 04:31 PM.

[adamts01]

DoctorDetroit, on 08 February 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

while also causing a mass exodus of players.

Like the mass exodus if PGI ever removed the option to select the game mode? Oh no!

[DoctorDetroit]

adamts01, on 08 February 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

Like the mass exodus if PGI ever removed the option to select the game mode? Oh no!

Not really "mass exodus", but I still complain about that ALOT.. so i will count it.

[Livewyr]

Cone of fire isn't resource intensive. (Not like the gradual convergence was.)

Cone of fire would be RNG with the upper and lower limits manipulated by the player. (As Tex has described.) It's not any more intensive than the jumpjet/MASC business they have going on now. Same point and click, with templates instead of a ray-trace.

[oldradagast]

DoctorDetroit, on 08 February 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Nope! Cone of fire is a terrible idea. Nerf laser duration if pinpoint vomit is such a problem. No need for a convoluted game mechanic like cone of fire. Especially when it would take up mucho game resources, while also causing "another" much bigger mass exodus of players.

Because ghost heat, nerfed jump jets, Gauss charge and 2 gauss limit - which I still think are explained nowhere in the game - and all the other crap is NOT "convoluted?" And keep in mind those half-baked solutions have still not fixed the real problem, which almost led to us getting "ghost range" - yet another goofy mechanic that doesn't make sense.

Cone of fire would have fixed all that.

[DoctorDetroit]

Livewyr, on 08 February 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

Cone of fire isn't resource intensive. (Not like the gradual convergence was.)

Cone of fire would be RNG with the upper and lower limits manipulated by the player. (As Tex has described.) It's not any more intensive than the jumpjet/MASC business they have going on now. Same point and click, with templates instead of a ray-trace.

Except JJs and MASC are a positive feature for the game and cone of fire would KILL the game.

oldradagast, on 08 February 2016 - 04:41 PM, said:

Because ghost heat, nerfed jump jets, Gauss charge and 2 gauss limit - which I still think are explained nowhere in the game - and all the other crap is NOT "convoluted?" And keep in mind those half-baked solutions have still not fixed the real problem, which almost led to us getting "ghost range" - yet another goofy mechanic that doesn't make sense.

Cone of fire would have fixed all that.

Seriously what is your point? Yes I agree that these were controversial game mechanics that could have possibly been solved in a simple manner that would not have alienated so many players. Cone of fire is definitely NOT that answer though. This is exactly the position I am taking with cone of fire. Why alienate most of the player base and waste dev time on something that can be accomplished with a quick change to the xml file?

Edited by DoctorDetroit, 08 February 2016 - 04:45 PM.

[adamts01]

DoctorDetroit, on 08 February 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

cone of fire would KILL the game.

COF is realistic and would make the game more of a simulator. That might kill it for you and the e-sport crowd, but it would make it better for me, and most of the other old school Mechwarior fans.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

adamts01, on 08 February 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Half of this community wants arena e-sport, I'm on the half that want's a simulator. I don't like leaving anything to chance, which is why a COF that can be eliminated by movement is appealing. If building a dedicated sniper, this proposed COF could pretty much be eliminated. Again, OP's proposal has some issues, but something along those lines would add a lot of realism in my opinion.

I've lost interest in e-sports, otherwise I'd still be playing FFA ladders in UT.

I want a sim, but the thing about sims is they need to be arcade-y enough to actually be fun, but rely on enough realism to keep the experience deep.

Movement based reticle sway is what I'd far prefer to a CoF. If the CoF was negligible and was dependent on the weapon's range where the max CoF was just enough to spread between LT and CT or RT and CT at whatever the weapons optimum range was (so the iERLL at 675m might spread some damage between two components if I'm moving or running in the red).

In WoT/WT/AW, I've lost too many clinchers due to RNJesus being like, "lol, kufc u m8, pray to me moar b!tch!" as my crosshair covers the enemy tank and I just need to land the hit to kill him, but RNG decides to throw it 50^o over and left of the target even though I'm close enough to throw a baseball down his barrel.

Edited by Saint Scarlett Johan, 08 February 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[DoctorDetroit]

adamts01, on 08 February 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

COF is realistic and would make the game more of a simulator. That might kill it for you and the e-sport crowd, but it would make it better for me, and most of the other old school Mechwarior fans.

Realistic.... nope, try again. If you shoot a gun, and especially a LASER it goes straight!

[wanderer]

Quote

Nope! Cone of fire is a terrible idea. Nerf laser duration if pinpoint vomit is such a problem.

Cue the endless buff/nerf weapon cycle, next turn of the wheel. The only difference would be a new set of optimal pinpoint weaponry, leading to the same problem with different "hit" graphics.

You kill perfect convergence- one way or another - or the core problem remains. Whoever can put the most guns on one pixel wins.

[InspectorG]

oldradagast, on 08 February 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

.

You dont see LRMs at high level play because of game mechanics.

They are the most inefficient weapon.

Most travel time to target

Most conditions needed to hit

Most hard counters

Most damage spread in a game that rewards focused damage

Least payoff.

They are 'noob tubes' because average skilled players can negate them via piloting alone.

Its all vomits now,because its currently the most efficient.

Heatscale penalties and a dakka ammo boost/ton may help balance it.

But LRMs need a whole targeting/indirect fire/direct fire/ECM/damage spread overhaul.

[DoctorDetroit]

wanderer, on 08 February 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Cue the endless buff/nerf weapon cycle, next turn of the wheel. The only difference would be a new set of optimal pinpoint weaponry, leading to the same problem with different "hit" graphics.

You kill perfect convergence- one way or another - or the core problem remains. Whoever can put the most guns on one pixel wins.

Or maybe you could move around a bit possibly torso twist. That way that 1 pixel isn't focused on, just saying.

Edited by DoctorDetroit, 08 February 2016 - 04:53 PM.

[TheArisen]

I'd prefer my weapons hit where I point them.

[adamts01]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 08 February 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

I've lost interest in e-sports, otherwise I'd still be playing FFA ladders in UT.

I want a sim, but the thing about sims is they need to be arcade-y enough to actually be fun, but rely on enough realism to keep the experience deep.

Movement based reticle sway is what I'd far prefer to a CoF. If the CoF was negligible and was dependent on the weapon's range where the max CoF was just enough to spread between LT and CT or RT and CT at whatever the weapons optimum range was (so the iERLL at 675m might spread some damage between two components if I'm moving or running in the red).

In WoT/WT/AW, I've lost too many clinchers due to RNJesus being like, "lol, kufc u m8, pray to me moar b!tch!" as my crosshair covers the enemy tank and I just need to land the hit to kill him, but RNG decides to throw it 50^o over and left of the target even though I'm close enough to throw a baseball down his barrel.

I've never played another online game, so I really can't compare. But yeah, the WOT system sounds like crap. I understand what you're saying about weapon sway, but I still thing a varying, controllable COF would be better. When I fire while using jumpjets all my lasers pick a random place and go there, that just seems weird. I'd much rather my shots scatter a bit than all perfectly converge at some random point. That's how I envision your sway mechanic working.

DoctorDetroit, on 08 February 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

Realistic.... nope, try again. If you shoot a gun, and especially a LASER it goes straight!

This has been beaten to absolute death on this thread already. Yes, the gun still shoots straight, but the faster you move, the harder it is to hit the same target with the same accuracy. That's what COF is supposed to simulate. I, as well as many others, think huge pinpoint alphas are a problem. This isn't just another realistic touch, but a counter to those huge pinpoint alphas.

[AssaultPig]

I don't think cone of fire would feel very good in a game where rate of fire is this low; the opportunity cost of missing targets (heat, cooldown time) in a brawl-y situation is really high, especially with lasers.

maybe more reticle 'sway' when moving/jumping/falling would help, but it's hard to say

[adamts01]

AssaultPig, on 08 February 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:

I don't think cone of fire would feel very good in a game where rate of fire is this low; the opportunity cost of missing targets (heat, cooldown time) in a brawl-y situation is really high, especially with lasers.

maybe more reticle 'sway' when moving/jumping/falling would help, but it's hard to say

That's why you slow down to reduce the COF and make your shot count. It's less twitchy and more of a simulator than what we currently have. And within 200 m you'd still hit a single component anyway, so brawling wouldn't be effected.

[TexAce]

TheArisen, on 08 February 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

I'd prefer my weapons hit where I point them.

If you point your crosshair onto a target far away, lets say 1000m, the center pixel of your reticule is probably overlapping not only two locations but even 3 or 4 locations on the enemy mech. But when you shoot, all your weapons are hitting the exact same spot on the same location.

You're not only hitting what you are aiming at, you are hitting even more precisely than you can possibly see under that one pixel of your reticule.
And it's not because you are a pro player, but because the game is coded that way.
You want that? I sure as hell don't.

Edited by TexAce, 08 February 2016 - 05:06 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

adamts01, on 08 February 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

I've never played another online game, so I really can't compare. But yeah, the WOT system sounds like crap. I understand what you're saying about weapon sway, but I still thing a varying, controllable COF would be better. When I fire while using jumpjets all my lasers pick a random place and go there, that just seems weird. I'd much rather my shots scatter a bit than all perfectly converge at some random point. That's how I envision your sway mechanic working.

The sway isn't send it off to a random corner, the weapons still go to the center of the crosshair. It's just that by moving, your mech begins to sway, which means the crosshair begins to sway left to right and up to down some. The faster you go, the more it sways.

It's actually in the 3PV mode, your crosshair sways as you run, and the faster you run, the more vigorous it sways.

In my (admittedly, low quality) video here, you can see the difference in the snow that the reticle sway makes with the laser lines, like it's almost writing a line of cursive 'e's in the snow.

Linky Linky

[adamts01]

TexAce, on 08 February 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

stuff....

If you can't tell by now, I'm a huge fan of COF, I'm pretty much your spokesperson on this thread, but you never replied to what I said earlier. You really have to limit what a targeting computer can do, most IS can't mount them, it really would make Clans OP. Also, a perfectly cool mech, standing still, firing a single ERLL should hit exactly what he's shooting at.

[Asrrin]

You introduce cone of fire and you can kiss a large number of players, as well as competitive play, goodbye. A game should never punish a player for having good aim. That is all.