102 replies to this topic

[Raso]

I think convergence is only one part of the puzzle. I think that we need a heat rebalancing so that you can't fire as many weapons at once.

Hear me out.

I'm not talking ghosts heat. I'm talking about reducing the overall heat cap. Reduce the heat cap and increase heat dissipation speed. Make it so that mechs have more weapon mounts than can be utilized in a single, focused build. In doing so I would hope that mechs will be encouraged to equip weapons for multiple engagement ranges rather than boating weapons of a like lind for a single range.

If properly implemented lights and mediums would work best as strikers focused on more similar weapon systems while heavies and assaults would have the room to control the battlefield and engage at all ranges.

How does convergence play into this? Weapon grouping and positioning. Arms would be better at brawling (as they are now) while clustered torso weapons would be great at range (but only on bigger targets). Mediums and lights would be less vulnerable to long ranged attacks making them ideal brawlers or scouts.

Certain mechs may even have quirks which allow for torso convergence. The Awesome would be a good cannidate for this feature on it's torso mounted PPCs. Granting certain mechs limited convergence quirks would hell to differentiate them and make mechs with similar loadouts stand apart.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I find our binary heat system to have a bigger impact on TTK than convergence.

Lock heat cap at 60. Fix the damned lasers already. Ditch the heat gen quirks. Give TruDubs. Give scalar heat penalties starting at 66% heat.

Now watch TTK go up.

TTK dropped immensely once we could stack the right combination of lasers and ralph 50+ damage for as little as 30 heat.

[SCHLIMMER BESTIMMER XXX]

Kristian Radoulov, on 09 February 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

How much if it is down to you guys complaining because you don't have good aim?

I know, you have the best aim possible

[NighthawK1337]

Come on guys. Necromancy is bound to attract Cthulhu, we don't want our skins leeched off.

Break out the purifying salt please. We need it for the salt barrier stat!

Huh, first time I've seen a banned forum profile, I wonder what he did....

[Carl Vickers]

NighthawK1337, on 09 February 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

Come on guys. Necromancy is bound to attract Cthulhu, we don't want our skins leeched off.

Break out the purifying salt please. We need it for the salt barrier stat!

Huh, first time I've seen a banned forum profile, I wonder what he did....

The wanna be smug comment from the necromancer above you is sposed to allude to why he got banned.

[NighthawK1337]

Carl Vickers, on 09 February 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

The wanna be smug comment from the necromancer above you is sposed to allude to why he got banned.

He used necromancy just to rub it in?
-______________________________________________________-


Either way,

Hey mods, any of you Online? we need a few Paladins or Clerics here.

[Carl Vickers]

NighthawK1337, on 09 February 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

He used necromancy just to rub it in?
-______________________________________________________-


Either way,

Hey mods, any of you Online? we need a few Paladins or Clerics here.

I personally dont see much of a need to rub salt in the wound when the person who is wounded cant see it. Mods, k-town please.

[MacClearly]

Mister Blastman, on 09 February 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

I have great aim! But I also recognize Battletech's armor system is incompatible with convergence.

Either...

a. Remove Convergence...



OR




Go to a scalable armor hitbox/plate system.

Light 'mechs get 6 boxes in torso section (2 for LT, 2 for CT, 2 for RT)
Medium 'mechs get 9 boxes (3 for LT, 3 for CT, 3 for RT)
Heavies get 18 boxes (6 for LT, 6 for CT, 6 for RT in a 2x3 column per section)
Assaults get 27 boxes (9 for LT, 9 for CT, 9 for RT in a 2x6 or 3x3 column)

Each box has full armor value of the respective section... i.e. 42 pts in RT, 42 pts per box independent of each other. Damage one box--only that box goes down in armor value.

Internal structure is still the same as it is now. Result: Aim is rewarded, skill is rewarded, mech TTK goes up for the average player.

Watch and understand:


The scalable armor system will allow us to keep convergence.

I think you posted this (or the part I like) in a post way back that Cazidin linked?

What I like is the idea of spliting the armour into panels. Don't think PGI is willing or even capable of making such a change, but it would be great in another title especially if you could see it on the affected mech.

[Dino Might]

Kristian Radoulov, on 09 February 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

How much if it is down to you guys complaining because you don't have good aim? Honest question here as I get the feeling a lot of what I read stems from people trying to close the skillgap via mechanics to even the playing field.

Do you think it will make for closer games? Have you thought about how increasing TTK will skew the mechanics of current fights (IE focused fire even more important than now pushing people towards deathballing/nascaring even harder)?

Are you suggesting that I, who support a dynamic CoF system, am trying to make it so people with worse aim can do better? Exactly the opposite would happen. I need you to understand this. When it takes more shots to kill a mech, the person with better aim will have an even bigger advantage. In a OSOK game, anybody can get lucky and win the fight. In a MSOK game, the better shooter has a significant advantage that only increases as the number of shots per kill goes up.

I want dynamic convergence because it will require consideration of own mech movement, heat, and weapons groupingsin addition to the current consideration (where your reticle is pointed). I want this added complexity to establish a higher skill ceiling and allow for more tactical considerations to affect the outcome of an engagement. Right now, we just have point and click any time you see an enemy mech unless you're on the verge of shutdown. That's a bit dull.

----

ETA: Wow...saw the February, but didn't notice the 2016. Kristian, not trying to jump on you over an old thread. But, I'm more than happy to pick up the convo wherever it left off.

Ugh, and now I see Kristian isn't even here to discuss. What a waste of time. Congrats necro troll...ya got me

Edited by Dino Might, 09 February 2017 - 05:55 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

MacClearly, on 09 February 2017 - 05:51 PM, said:

I think you posted this (or the part I like) in a post way back that Cazidin linked?

What I like is the idea of spliting the armour into panels. Don't think PGI is willing or even capable of making such a change, but it would be great in another title especially if you could see it on the affected mech.

Yeah, I originally made those drawings back in 2012 in closed beta, when I first proposed the solution. And look, everything I predicted has come to pass! :-|

The armor system would help this game tremendously, and do wonders to halt power creep like we see in the KDK-3. All those tiny AC/10 and AC/5 shells would spread everywhere, while pinpoint snipers would be rewarded with patience, instead of being mowed down like a baby quail in a jaguar den.

[NighthawK1337]

Where's that "Turn Undead" spell when we need it?

Come on Dino Might, he's probably not even playing the game anymore. Cut him some slack.

[Carl Vickers]

Some people just dont pay attention to dates on posts.

[Bishop Steiner]

SHRedo, on 09 February 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

I know, you have the best aim possible

you really don't get out much, do you?

Mister Blastman, on 09 February 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Yeah, I originally made those drawings back in 2012 in closed beta, when I first proposed the solution. And look, everything I predicted has come to pass! :-|

The armor system would help this game tremendously, and do wonders to halt power creep like we see in the KDK-3. All those tiny AC/10 and AC/5 shells would spread everywhere, while pinpoint snipers would be rewarded with patience, instead of being mowed down like a baby quail in a jaguar den.

but DOOD! MAH SKILLZ!!!!!!

Everyone knows real skill is clicking on teh pixel that is totally unaffectorated by anything going on around it... like movement, being hit by a mssive gauss projectile.... overheating.......

I mean those real soldiers and snipers who have to hit live enemy targets while trying not to get shot back have absolutely NO SKILLZ compared to the guys in spandex in an air conditioned building using super minmaxed specialty weapons that are only good for punching holes in paper in controlled environments.

Epeen FTW!!!!!

[Mister Blastman]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 February 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

"Sez lots of stuph."

[Alex Morgaine]

Spandex? Paintball needs spandex now?

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 09 February 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

Alex Morgaine, on 09 February 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

Spandex? Paintball needs spandex now?

Paintball actually requires dealing with things like wind, terrain, moving targets, etc..... most of our Tryhard Experts would find that unacceptable.

[Alex Morgaine]

Fair enough. What are you referencing then? Laser tag? That technically could still have skill so probably not...
Spandex...

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 09 February 2017 - 06:18 PM.

[KingCobra]

OMG Convergence again----------->

[Dino Might]

Carl Vickers, on 09 February 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

Some people just dont pay attention to dates on posts.

To be fair, it was a rather good troll necro - he picked a current hot-topic from a post dated February of 2016, when most of us are still used to seeing dates with 2016. I commend him for his cleverness, but shame him by using it...for evil!

Edited by Dino Might, 09 February 2017 - 06:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alex Morgaine, on 09 February 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Fair enough. What are you referencing then? Laser tag? That technically could still have skill so probably not...
Spandex...

actually Olympic style shooting whether with air guns or typical real guns. It's specialized race guns, to specialty target rifles, in totally controlled conditions to punch tiny groups on paper. Yes it's a skill, but nothing like what real shooters and operators have to develop and demonstrate to survive. Benchrest shooting, essentially in robots, is what we have.

Real skill comes from learning how to deal with adverse conditions, when NOT to take a shot, and how to make the shot when you have to, in spite of things not being perfect. Essentially the OPPOSITE of what we have in MWO. Virtually every other FPS and Vehicle SIm manages to do it, but MWO player insist on pinpoint perfect, undisturbed aim.