679 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

King Alen, on 14 February 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Nothing is sub-par if you generally do well in it.

That's objectively false. Due to the game mechanics, there are certain mechs and builds that are stronger than others.

There is room for debating "which" of those builds/mechs are the better ones, but the overall idea that there are some that are simply better is pretty damn hard to argue.

For example, is anyone really going to try to debate that a Blackjack is superior to a Vindicator? Or that the Huginn is inferior to the Oxide after its missile cooldowns got slashed?

[ScarecrowES]

xXBagheeraXx, on 14 February 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

My idea of being "Bad on purpose" is simply driving old school builds...like 3 uac5 Muromets or Cataphract 1xes with an ac20 and mediums...and actulally trying to do well...

Might buy an Awesome 8Q back and sling ERppcs everywhere...

With modern quirks and the associated metas, those builds will likely do pretty good. Better than OPs Atlas, for sure.

[MeanFacedJohnny]

XFellDragonX, on 14 February 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

If he had used any of the brawling builds I'm certain he would have stuck with em, I can't do full on LRM boats they're way to boring damage output is minimal compared to when I use SRMs, lazors, and ballistics, maybe I don't have a LRMer mindset, sit back 900m and lob missiles at walls. Yeah that sounds like fun.

If OP likes LRMs whatever, just don't expect me to respect them when used on an Atlus.

I have a brawl build on my AS7 S(L). I have no problems with it. I just like my DC how I have it. It works well for me. When I want to brawl I will usually use my Ilya or my Heavy Metal, or my Misery.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Who says I'm competative? All i expect is for the other 11 people on my team to understand thier mech, understand thier roles and build accordingly. Running an AC20 raven for lols? I dont mind. You build mechs like that with the full understanding its a troll build for shats, giggles and comedy. However if i see you with 3 lrm 20s on a freaking atlas and...a tag? yeah I'm gonna have issues. You are a waste of 100 tons that could be out front pushing. I can lrm boat better in a 65 ton catapult with only 2 lrm 15's than you can with twice my tubes. And I wont be taking up a 100 ton slot doing so.

If you wanna lrm boat in an assault? get a Stalker..Get a warhawk B...get a mauler...get ANYTHING else that actually has the tubes and supporting weapons to effectively lrm boat but DONT use a freaking atlas. Shes built for direct fire weapons...lasers, gauss, autocannons and SRMS...shes not built for LRMS. pure and simple. Unless they are small tube count support weapons as you close with your direct fire weapons.

[Djinnhammer]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

That build is what wins me games. It's a good all around mech. I can fight at all ranges on any map. The day I consistently lose matches because of my build I will change it again. But if I'm doing well and consistently winning, how does that 'gimp' my team?

I wouldn't mind at all, as long as you don't camp I'm cool with whatever you bring.

[XFellDragonX]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

I have a brawl build on my AS7 S(L). I have no problems with it. I just like my DC how I have it. It works well for me. When I want to brawl I will usually use my Ilya or my Heavy Metal, or my Misery.

Use whatever you want again that's the fun of the game, that doesn't mean the build is effective, a blackjack with only two AC2s is OBJECTIVELY bad, it's fact that the ac2s are subpar as main weapons.

I guess as long as you're not doing abysmally bad on my team idgaf, keep in mind though I just love eating up poor lurm boats no amount of lazors is helping you up close. Splat Jenner ftw!

[Navid A1]

You know.... i was like you once OP.

I played atlases for 2 years... ONLY atlases... AS7-K, AS7-D and AS7-RS (AS7-D-DC is not a real atlas). I used 2ERLLs, 1 AC10, 2 MLs, 1 srm4 and 1 LRM15... with a standard 300 engine.

I could do well in them. It was all fun.

When the clans arrived i started using other chassis as well. And i started using more optimal builds... the difference was day and night.
I felt like i was going to war with a wooden sword for 2 years. Knowing that i could still kick *** with that... you can't imagine what it felt like when i first tried a meta build... it was like i was given a razor sharp real sword.

In short... try some optimal builds sometime.
You can always go back to your fun builds anytime you want. I still run my timbers with a pair of LRM10s... just because it looks nice on the timber... but that does not mean that i don't have meta-decked timbers.

Edited by Navid A1, 14 February 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[pyrocomp]

FupDup, on 14 February 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

That's objectively false. Due to the game mechanics, there are certain mechs and builds that are stronger than others.

There is room for debating "which" of those builds/mechs are the better ones, but the overall idea that there are some that are simply better is pretty damn hard to argue.

For example, is anyone really going to try to debate that a Blackjack is superior to a Vindicator? Or that the Huginn is inferior to the Oxide after its missile cooldowns got slashed?

Are you so sure that at present state of the game the difference between meta and non-meta builds effectiveness is larger than players effectiveness in handling this or that build? Look like contrary, the gap is less and pilots grasp with the build matters more. Plus... some find LRMs boring, some find brawling dumb, some find lazors boring - everyone is a critic, everyone has his tastes. Plus, units for competitive players allow for meta-game, meta-builds and all sorts of 'right and proper'.

[MrMadguy]

This is called elitism. It leads to some terrible things, like cookie-cutter builds and stigmatizing everybody, who doesn't use them. It kills all the freedom of choice and ruins all the fun in game. Something like "You have spent one talent point on wrong talent *Kicked from group*", "You don't have BIS gear" and "Link achieve or GTFO" in MMOs, when you're trying to do even basic content. Elitism has killed many games - it forces developers to oversimplify and dumb games down in order to remove ability to make any mistakes from players. Developers should get rid of elitism and elitists as fast, as they can. It alienates all new players from the game and makes this game stagnate and slowly die.

Edited by MrMadguy, 14 February 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Navid A1, on 14 February 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

You know.... i was like you once OP.

I played atlases for 2 years... ONLY atlases... AS7-K, AS7-D and AS7-RS (AS7-D-DC is not a real atlas). I used 2ERLLs, 1 AC10, 2 MLs, 1 srm4 and 1 LRM15... with a standard 300 engine.

I could do well in them. It was all fun.

When the clans arrived i started using other chassis as well. And i started using more optimal builds... the difference was day and night.

I felt like i was going to war with a wooden sword for 2 years. Knowing that i could still kick *** with that... you can't imagine what it felt like when i first tried a meta build... it was like i was given a razor sharp real sword.

In short... try some optimal builds sometime.
You can always go back to your fun builds anytime you want. I still run my timbers with a pair of LRM10s... just because it looks nice on the timber... but that does not mean that i don't have meta-decked timbers.

You played for fun of for damage numbers? Just to make certain on why you did this or that.

[FupDup]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Are you so sure that at present state of the game the difference between meta and non-meta builds effectiveness is larger than players effectiveness in handling this or that build? Look like contrary, the gap is less and pilots grasp with the build matters more.

The factor that matters "more" isn't the point. The point is that the build STILL DOES MATTER, especially when you can't always count on the other players being worse than you are.

Having a good build versus having a "good grasp" aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they work most powerfully when used at the same time.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Video games are serious business, and they should be treated that way.

Just accept it, kids. You should not be here to have fun, you should be here to win all the big cash prizes and scholarships it rewards.

[nehebkau]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

So please, everybody, stop crying about other people's builds, and if you must say something, don't be a d*ick about it. I shouldn't have to defend my choices in this game to anyone. Especially if I'm not losing games.

Sounds to me like you don't have enough -SO- in your life. Son's of Odin -- build em as you like em.

[Navid A1]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

You played for fun of for damage numbers? Just to make certain on why you did this or that.

Both... But the main reason was that Atlas was my favorite chassis. and i wanted to keep it pure... close to its stock build.
I still have my beloved AS7-RS (that i have 3 million XPs in) sitting in the mechlab as a reminder!

[rolly]

I love reading all the assumptions about a persons skill, personal choices in load out and about how bad they are playing. Its like reading about elementary school bickering.

You know those baseless assumptions like "Ew... Ted where's jogging pants. He must come from a poor family, can't dance, likes green beans and chooses loadouts that are contra to my meta-tryhard-beliefs and assumptions. Therefore he is completely wrong. Lets throw mud at him regardless, regardless of the factual proof that he is a capable and useful member."

Prosperity Park, on 14 February 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Video games are serious business, and they should be treated that way.

Just accept it, kids. You should not be here to have fun, you should be here to win all the big cash prizes and scholarships it rewards.

Darn it. Did I miss the application due date for the Russ Bullock Scholarship for the Arts again?

Edited by rolly, 16 February 2016 - 05:44 AM.

[pyrocomp]

FupDup, on 14 February 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

The factor that matters "more" isn't the point. The point is that the build STILL DOES MATTER, especially when you can't always count on the other players being worse than you are.

Having a good build versus having a "good grasp" aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, they work most powerfully when used at the same time.

True, but now to the point of fun or why do you play this game? I'm a poor brawler so I should not touch Atlases and I'm really bored with lasers so... So this game offers me nothing? It's a stretcher that if there is optimum build everyone should lern to use it. Look at turn from past laser meta to more recent gauss+laser meta which included learning to use another system which was considered unoptimal for a long time. So no, the existence of the 'percived' optimum (nobody proved it as a theorem not by 'people do in those better) is not a strong reason to follow that 'optimum'.

[pyrocomp]

Navid A1, on 14 February 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Both... But the main reason was that Atlas was my favorite chassis. and i wanted to keep it pure... close to its stock build.
I still have my beloved AS7-RS (that i have 3 million XPs in) sitting in the mechlab as a reminder!

You had your fun. Later you found appeal in something else. Good. OP might find some more interest in different chassis later. Happens to all of us. But for now he has his fun and positive emotions, no need to ask him to move on.

[Mystere]

rolly, on 14 February 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Darn it. Did I miss the application due date for the Russ Bullock Scholarship for the Arts again?

Scholarship for the Arts? I thought I signed up to be a NATO officer.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I swear it said somewhere in the Terms of Service that I could have a free ride at the New Avalon Institute for the Liberal Arts if I joined the SLDF modern art brigade and served for a minimum of 1 tour.

I painted an Atlas equipped only with LRM20s and LBX10, and let people spit on it for a week. I then wrote a thesis based on the drool patterns and how it represents the flow of emotion within the community.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 14 February 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[pyrocomp]

Mystere, on 14 February 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Scholarship for the Arts? I thought I signed up to be a NATO officer.

Still better than after a loooong party to find your signature under a bank loan and no trace of money.