679 replies to this topic

[MeanFacedJohnny]

Deathlike, on 14 February 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Bad builds are still bad.

At some point in Tier climbing (especially in the group queue), people with bad builds tend to get raked over the coals when first spotted, or in this case... the last guy in the match that is nowhere near the action to immediately get wrecked shortly afterwards... being laughed at on coms for having such a build.

I fear Atlas builds and pilots that have a clue to what they are doing... not the poor builds+pilots that simply get mauled at do effectively nothing when better competition is facing them.

In the case of missiles in general... you can do a lot of damage, but it's almost meaningless if your team still ends up on the wrong side of things, thinking that such damage translated into actual kills. It may "seem impressive" that you gain lots of damage with LRMs, but anyone who knows better doesn't take such things seriously due to the nature of the weapon itself.

It's fine you don't agree - you'll hit the proverbial wall eventually, and will be beaten savagely because of thinking it is good, when people that know better will eventually change your mind... one way or another.

Never said it was 'good', only that it is what I enjoy, do well with, and have fun with. Too many people putting words in my mouth. If and when I hit this 'wall', I'll use one of my many brawlers or my future archer lrm boat. I don't get how so many people are making all these assumptions about me and putting these words in my mouth. Again, my main point, is if you don't like it, that's fine, make your recommendations, just don't be a d*ck about it. Criticism is fine, as long as it's respectful. But when someone says, "lrm boat atlas bad build for bad player" that helps no one. Sadly most of the time I hear this it's from someone who died before I could even get to the fight. And I would hardly consider 20 lrm's or even 25 a 'boat. In fact my lrm damage is only 2000 more than my ac20 damage and that mech is the only one I have an ac20 equipped.

Grisbane, on 14 February 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

I'm on the side with those that say the Atlas shouldn't be carrying LRM's at all. In MWO it's a frontline brawler. if you want a LRM carrying mech, bring an Awesome, Catapult, Stalker 5M, or Mad Dog. Don't waste valuable team tonnage by denying your team a viable 100 tonner. if you are going to bring an Atlas, you need to be the anvil of your team, like the Dire is the sledgehammer of any team it's on.


i won't tell you how to build your mech, but at the same time i you are going to purposely gimp your team by bringing **** builds. i consider that purposeful misconduct against team mates and you should be reported for it


i would advise against discrediting Deathlike as well. I used to be in his unit, and fought beside him constantly, he is one of the few that would carry our unit constantly. there is a reason he's a tier 1. i have learned a lot just watching him play. (he's also pretty entertaining in chat too lol)

wow, you would report someone for equipping LRM's on an Atlas... That is some League of Legends mentality there.

[Pjwned]

Sami Starvixen, on 14 February 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

Gauss is never a good idea on an Atlas unless you like walking around with a time bomb strapped to your chest, but an AC/10 can work if you really want to commit to ranged fighting.

If you want to be an armored sniper with plenty of firepower (as well as having less heat) then a gauss rifle works better than AC10, but if you want more DPS and you don't want to be sniping all the time then yeah AC10 is better which is why I suggested it first.

Especially considering the structure quirks on all Atlas variants at this point though, it's not "never a good idea on an Atlas," although I personally wouldn't run that build.

Edited by Pjwned, 14 February 2016 - 08:41 PM.

[VinJade]

so far all I can see is a very few elitists gripping about what isn't what they deem their perfect mech and playing the way the elitists doesn't like.

I say elitists because that's all I am seeing from the few who keep harping about wanting the OP to be a carbon copy of them or of their mechs.

[Bud Crue]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

Again, my main point, is if you don't like it, that's fine, make your recommendations, just don't be a d*ck about it. Criticism is fine, as long as it's respectful.

Alas, this is the internets. Many are simply incapable of doing this. They hide behind the wall of anonymity and crank the disrespect up to eleven, and take the position that if you don't do X the way they say you should you are an idiot, a scrub, and should not be allowed in the same virtual space as they. Welcome! Have fun!

[MeanFacedJohnny]

Night Thastus, on 14 February 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

Are you allowed to build whatever you want? Sure.

But if you drag the team down with a piss-poor build and pull crap-*** damage, I'm certainly going to call you out on it.

If you're in an Atlas with LRMS, you're wasting everyone's time.

From the quirks to the weapons to the design it is built for face-tanking and brawling. In a PUG drop, we need that Atlas to absorb a lot of damage and be the head of a push. As well as use massive 4x SRM-6 + Artemis + AC/20 to obliterate bigger targets like Dire Wolfs before they can do any serious harm.

If you put a crappy build "My build is 2 ER Lrg lasers, an AC 20, LRM 20, LRM 5, and ECM."

I'm going to call you out in-game for it. That build has extremely limited direct-fire capability. Once you get up-close and in a brawl (or have a light circling you) you have an AC/20 and 2 ER Larges. That is *not* enough to take down hardly anything. If you get lucky you'll kill a circling light, but you'll be useless in a brawl.

As well, you can't fire all of those LRMs at once because the Atlas doesn't have the tubes for it. It has one section with 10 tubes and three sections with 6 tubes. That means that the LRM-20 will fire in two groups of 10 if you placed it correctly. If you didn't, it'll fire in four groups of 5, being even *less* effective.

The LRM-20 in general is a poor weapon. People have done extensive testing to show that a single LRM-15 due to reduced spread and cooldown will always outperform an LRM-20 in any scenario. It's just the way the game is. There's also a huge tonnage, slot-requirement and heat gap for the LRM-20, making it super inefficient.

If you did an LRM-10 (which would fit) and say, 3 LRM-5's, I think I'd be more OK with it. Not happy, but I'd see the logic.

The problem is your attitude. You'll see that huge LRM-20 and dual ER-larges and think you can sit in the f*cking back all day.

You can't. You're an assault mech. You take punches and you get your 'Mech in the frontlines.

EDIT: If you're positively stuck on lurms, here's an Atlas build that will pull it's own weight slightly more.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...67b2e3274a5d5a7

Someone else didn't read everything, why does everyone assume if I have any amount of LRM's that I am sitting in the rear boating?

[Deathlike]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Never said it was 'good', only that it is what I enjoy, do well with, and have fun with. Too many people putting words in my mouth. If and when I hit this 'wall', I'll use one of my many brawlers or my future archer lrm boat. I don't get how so many people are making all these assumptions about me and putting these words in my mouth. Again, my main point, is if you don't like it, that's fine, make your recommendations, just don't be a d*ck about it. Criticism is fine, as long as it's respectful. But when someone says, "lrm boat atlas bad build for bad player" that helps no one. Sadly most of the time I hear this it's from someone who died before I could even get to the fight. And I would hardly consider 20 lrm's or even 25 a 'boat. In fact my lrm damage is only 2000 more than my ac20 damage and that mech is the only one I have an ac20 equipped.

I see enough people using bad builds and then see them do next to nothing in damage/kills/etc, and that shouldn't surprise anyone when they rail on you.

It's one thing to suck, but it's another thing when you aren't carrying your own weight.

[pyrocomp]

Gyrok, on 14 February 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

You know what...this is how I interpret that to be.

If you want to derp around with LRMs, ok, fine...bring a mech like an adder with a couple of 10s or 15s, a tag and a pair of ERMLs and play in the back and "make it rain"...whatever.

If you are bringing a 100 ton assault mech...you are a considerable amount of armor and guns that should be leading the charge, because that is what the Atlas does. For you to be sitting in the back lobbing LRMs, while you are handicapping the group by being significantly slower, and to prevent losing you, your team supports you...you are doing every single one of the other 11 players on your team a disservice by playing that mech that way...

The biggest offense in all of this is that a 100 ton assault mech requires attention of the team because it must be supported. So, now you are making the 100 ton assault mech baby sitting job as painful to watch as paint drying, and you literally contribute nothing to the push...which is your only function.

The only other thing I can say is this:

If you are dropping in that Atlas, please alert the rest of your team that you are a 48 kph LRM lobbing DDC so they can leave you behind when they nascar...because someone playing a 100 ton tank that selfishly deserves to get left behind while they kick and scream about people telling them, and rightfully so, that they are a drain on the team and contribute almost nothing.

Scroll up to the OPs statement (with back up of the someone who seen OP in a match) that he participates in the push alright and is not sitting in a back row, does his part af damage collection. The OPs question was exactly why a sight of a single LRM rack makes all go crazy supposing that that particular Atlas is a back row coward? What type of psychological trick is that? You are not the first to make that connection, but may be you will explain that to me?

[ScarecrowES]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Never said it was 'good', only that it is what I enjoy, do well with, and have fun with. Too many people putting words in my mouth. If and when I hit this 'wall', I'll use one of my many brawlers or my future archer lrm boat. I don't get how so many people are making all these assumptions about me and putting these words in my mouth. Again, my main point, is if you don't like it, that's fine, make your recommendations, just don't be a d*ck about it. Criticism is fine, as long as it's respectful. But when someone says, "lrm boat atlas bad build for bad player" that helps no one. Sadly most of the time I hear this it's from someone who died before I could even get to the fight. And I would hardly consider 20 lrm's or even 25 a 'boat. In fact my lrm damage is only 2000 more than my ac20 damage and that mech is the only one I have an ac20 equipped.


wow, you would report someone for equipping LRM's on an Atlas... That is some League of Legends mentality there.

You're right... noone needs to be a **** about it... but you're writing this topic because this isn't exactly the first time you've been told you were using a build that was a drain on your team. At this point, it's an issue of you completely ignoring what you're told. And again, totally your right to do that. But if you do, you're going to hear about it. That's a fact.

You then have 3 choices... get used to hearing about your bad build (realize it IS you, not them, at fault here)... change the build to one that is more effective for the mech (be a better teammate and improve your personal performance at the same time)... or just realize that maybe if you can't enjoy playing effective mechs and builds, that perhaps this isn't the right game for you. I know that's more abrupt than you'd like, but that's the way it is.

Now, in terms of "boating" you're right... 2 weapons of a type does not a boat make. But with LRMs you're committing your entire mech to a certain type of play just by having them on, regardless if you've got 10, 25, or 40. It's a lot of weight and play consideration that could be spent elsewhere. The "jack of all trades" thing rarely works in Mechwarrior - though it works amazing in tabletop. For the purposes of MWO, you're best bet is to synergize your builds. Focus on what you want your build to do. Yours is kinda all over the place. If you want to stay at range, fine. Drop the AC/20 for something else, and fully commit to the LRMs. It's a total waste on the Atlas, still, but at least you're not doing it half-assed. Is that what the community would recommend? No. We'd recommend you use a frontline brawler to brawl. Hence why you hear so much about it.

[VinJade]

DL I have an idea,
why don't you and the others who hate the build use it for one week and really try to win to see if it is actually such a bad mech?

I bet I will hear 'no' because you might not be skilled enough to use it is my guess.
The OP clearly does well with it, so just because others most likely lack skill at all to be able to use his build in the end doesn't truly make it a bad one just one he can can use well.

*edit to fix spelling errors

Edited by VinJade, 14 February 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[Wild Pegasus]

Pjwned, on 14 February 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

If you want to be an armored sniper with plenty of firepower (as well as having less heat) then a gauss rifle works better than AC10, but if you want more DPS and you don't want to be sniping all the time then yeah AC10 is better which is why I suggested it first.

Especially considering the structure quirks on all Atlas variants at this point though it's not "never a good idea on an Atlas," although I personally wouldn't run that build.

The reason I say it's never a good idea is that the gun sticks waaaaay off the side of the ST, so it's a huge "PLEASE SHOOT HERE" arrow to the enemy, especially if they're checking for an XL. Plus it's mounted almost at waist level so you have to expose too much get a clear shot, which makes it really inefficient for sniping.

Hunchbacks like Grid Iron have the same problem with obvious profile since the gun box on the shoulder is huge, but because the mount is so high up you expose very little when peeking for a shot, so they get away with Gauss sniping better.

Edited by Sami Starvixen, 14 February 2016 - 04:28 PM.

[Gyrok]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Never said it was 'good', only that it is what I enjoy, do well with, and have fun with. Too many people putting words in my mouth. If and when I hit this 'wall', I'll use one of my many brawlers or my future archer lrm boat. I don't get how so many people are making all these assumptions about me and putting these words in my mouth. Again, my main point, is if you don't like it, that's fine, make your recommendations, just don't be a d*ck about it. Criticism is fine, as long as it's respectful. But when someone says, "lrm boat atlas bad build for bad player" that helps no one. Sadly most of the time I hear this it's from someone who died before I could even get to the fight. And I would hardly consider 20 lrm's or even 25 a 'boat. In fact my lrm damage is only 2000 more than my ac20 damage and that mech is the only one I have an ac20 equipped.


wow, you would report someone for equipping LRM's on an Atlas... That is some League of Legends mentality there.

Pro tip:

LRMs are a terrible weapon system, have more hard counters than anything in the game, and are made completely ineffective by the following things:

Cover
Breaking LoS at all
ECM
Massed AMS
Movement of a quick mech beyond 500m
Closing under 180m


The mechanics to improve LRM locks are the following:

TAG
NARC
UAV

Those are negated by the following:

TAG is negated by:
Cover
Breaking LoS
Massed AMS
Nearby ECM
Moving out of range

NARC is negated by:
Cover
Massed AMS
Nearby ECM
Moving out of range

UAV is negated by:

Shooting it down
Cover
Breaking LoS
Moving out of range

Seriously...why would you want to bring that when most players worth their salt will be doing most of those things naturally...?

Do yourself a favor, and put them away.

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Scroll up to the OPs statement (with back up of the someone who seen OP in a match) that he participates in the push alright and is not sitting in a back row, does his part af damage collection. The OPs question was exactly why a sight of a single LRM rack makes all go crazy supposing that that particular Atlas is a back row coward? What type of psychological trick is that? You are not the first to make that connection, but may be you will explain that to me?

Ok, if he is pushing with LRMs then that is a TERRIBLE build.

Why?

Because SRMs are significantly better for an Atlas leading a push, and he was again dragging his team down.

Edited by Gyrok, 14 February 2016 - 04:30 PM.

[VinJade]

funny, I deal a lot of damage with my LRMs, yes they are weaker compared to the other weapons but they are support weapons carried to support the mech as it closes or used by missile support units.

[ScarecrowES]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Scroll up to the OPs statement (with back up of the someone who seen OP in a match) that he participates in the push alright and is not sitting in a back row, does his part af damage collection. The OPs question was exactly why a sight of a single LRM rack makes all go crazy supposing that that particular Atlas is a back row coward? What type of psychological trick is that? You are not the first to make that connection, but may be you will explain that to me?

He can participate in the push all he wants... when he finally gets there he's not going to do much more than act as a moving wall. You've got one close range weapon with extremely low cycle time to damage output... 2 medium to long range weapons with low cycle time to damage output, and 2 extreme long range weapons with stunted cycle time. When it comes to the push, he's just got nothing to bring to the table except to draw fire and die for the team.

[pyrocomp]

Gyrok, on 14 February 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Ok, if he is pushing with LRMs then that is a TERRIBLE build.

Why?

Because SRMs are significantly better for an Atlas leading a push, and he was again dragging his team down.

You haven't answered the question 'why the heck a single LRM rack on Atlas (or any other mech) automatically makes the pilot a back row coward in your opinion?'. Really, the push with LRMs we will discuss in another thread.

[ScarecrowES]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

DL I have an idea,
why don't you and the others who hate the build use it for one week and really try to win to see if it is actually such a bad mech?

I bet I will hear 'no' because you might not be skilled enough to use it is my guess.
The OP clearly does well with it, so just because others most likely lack skill at all to be able to use his build in the end doesn't truly make it a bad one just one he can can use well.

*edit to fix spelling errors

I'll stick to one of my 3 1000+ damage per match Atlai, thanks. We don't have to try the mech to know it doesn't work. The game's been running for around 3 years now... it's never worked. It won't suddenly start working now.

[Gyrok]

VinJade, on 14 February 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

DL I have an idea,
why don't you and the others who hate the build use it for one week and really try to win to see if it is actually such a bad mech?

I bet I will hear 'no' because you might not be skilled enough to use it is my guess.
The OP clearly does well with it, so just because others most likely lack skill at all to be able to use his build in the end doesn't truly make it a bad one just one he can can use well.

*edit to fix spelling errors

Because the OP plays in scrublandia, where mythical things like commandos that have never seen light of day in T1/T2 still exist, and flourish, if a high tier player tried a build like that, they would get proper fukt in it in short order.

[Night Thastus]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Someone else didn't read everything, why does everyone assume if I have any amount of LRM's that I am sitting in the rear boating?

The fact is that with ER Larges and LRMs the temptation is there to sit back. You might not admit it to yourself, but I'd imagine there are plenty of times you're sitting in the back or not pushing when you could.

Even if you aren't doing that, it changes nothing. Because now you're in the front with a loadout that can't handle it.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 14 February 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

He can participate in the push all he wants... when he finally gets there he's not going to do much more than act as a moving wall. You've got one close range weapon with extremely low cycle time to damage output... 2 medium to long range weapons with low cycle time to damage output, and 2 extreme long range weapons with stunted cycle time. When it comes to the push, he's just got nothing to bring to the table except to draw fire and die for the team.

As if the main point of all the rants was 'you're are not soaking damage'. See the beginning of the thread, main concern was that those 100 tons are in a back row, not in the front attracting fire. So, again, how a single LRM rack on a mech makes a pilot back row coward? The push with LRMs is also possible in terms of supression fire. There are not so many facehuggers except of lights, so you'll have you lock and ability to shake that cockpit and blind with explosions. In T3 it works.

[Sandata]

Well if OP is effective in his build (ie getting his kills, taking his share of the damage for the team) im ok with it. I dont care even if he uses MG's instead of AC's in his atlas much less lurms as long as he's effective at it. And if he's effective in it then hes not exactly a liability to the team then is he?

[Gyrok]

pyrocomp, on 14 February 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

You haven't answered the question 'why the heck a single LRM rack on Atlas (or any other mech) automatically makes the pilot a back row coward in your opinion?'. Really, the push with LRMs we will discuss in another thread.

Because you are committing to a weapon system with the biggest minimum range in the game, one that requires continuous fire to spray damage all over the enemy.

By default, he has to hide to preserve his mech, or he will take a massive amount of damage in a short amount of time the very second he pops into LoS of direct fire mechs while spewing LRMs.

Even when playing LRMs "correctly", an assault mech is still the worst choice, because you need to be more mobile than a 100 ton turret.

The most exceptional LRM players actually tend to drive mechs around 55-60 tons because of mobility, payload, and a combination of other things. LRMs are not an effective weapon in racks bigger than 5, maybe 10, and they are not effective in an immobile platform spraying LRMs on enemy mechs from 600m. You literally need to be able to see the enemy with LoS to maintain good locks, and a DDC standing out spewing LRMs is wearing a tremendous "SHOOT ME PLZ" sign.