679 replies to this topic

[pyrocomp]

Deathlike, on 15 February 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

My point is ultimately - when you're actively trying to move up in Tiers (especially beyond Tier 3), there's a legitimate reason where 11 other players can and will hold you accountable for your bad builds. It's how you deal with it that matters.

And If one is not trying to go up the tiers (for reasons starting from more offence in higher tiers to pure disbelief that tier matter) then what are the reasons for those 11 players who came to the solo queue? Why those 11 are not expecting things like that (taht happen almost every match)? Match is balanced (PSR has settle more or less), there is a not so motivated player on their team also (by pure probabilities), so why to expect that everybody should carry alike? Solo queue where you are expected to carry for you and for that guy.
Again, we are more to the philosophical aspects of gaming as human behavior phenomenon and reasons and motivations for that. To get closer back to the topic, do you find it reasonable to offend a player on his build/performance (in before the match actively began) in a solo queue where you have to expect to have to carry for you and for that guy? I find no foot for that since this is a team game with those expected (not sure of intended) situations.

[Nauht]

Funny how the ones that don't give a **** about tiers are usually the ones that keep it hidden.

If you truly don't give then why hide it?

But that's another thread. I'm surprised this thread has gone on for this long.

It just reinforces with me that my fun >> your fun.

And people can rant in chat all day long. When chat does 10dmg to my mech then I'll start paying seruous attention to it.

[pyrocomp]

5LeafClover, on 15 February 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Wow, checked in a day later to find the thread at 26 pages!

All cos someone wants to run a LRM rack on a mixed build AS7???

Nope, it's mostly gone to more philosophical discussions on haw the game is percieved by different folks and what a player (as general) should expect/or shoud not expect/do of should be expected to do. Plus some parts of personal squabbles going from thread to thread.

[C E Dwyer]

SgtMagor, on 14 February 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

dont think i would use an lrm20 on a assault, lrm10, lrm5 if you can load 2 or more, faster recycle will deter mechs from trying to close the distance, and keep those snipers from getting a LOS on you.

Actually the only time LRM's are useful is in Pugs whether its quick play or CW, as most sniper weapons out range LRM's Gauss, ERLL, ERPPC, AC2, U/AC5.

LRM won't keep anyone from getting line of sight on you, and a good player won't allow the missile hits to put them off.

O.P I'm not going to tell you how you should build your mech, I'm certainly not going to insult you like some of the rabbit Cretins that have replied to your post, though it is rather defensive and you came looking for support and got advice you didn't like, which is for the most part correct, and you will find out yourself if you end up fighting in pugs or teams where more people can aim straight.

Shrugs People are correct, if your going to use LRM's on an Atlas, then LRM 15/20 are a bad choice, because of the tubes on the launcher, 10's and 5's are better, if your going to use LRM's, and there are better LRM assault choices.

Myself I have an LRM 10 on one of my S variant loyalty mechs because I was to lazy to spend out on the second one, but it still leaves 3 srm6, some months ago your argument might have been valid when SRM hit detection sucked, but now while its not perfect a full alpha of 88 is nothing to be sneezed at in pugs, though an Atlas sighting in Comp standard play is virtually
unheard of.

As long as your not hiding in holes and not expecting others to do the dirty work of keeping the locks, then good luck to you, though sooner or later you will realise that the advice from the more reasonable player in this thread is correct

[Bishop Steiner]

lordtzar, on 15 February 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

You'd be tier 1 if you spent a tenth of the time you're posting on the forums playing the actual game.

Or if I actually cared?

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

5LeafClover, on 15 February 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Wow, checked in a day later to find the thread at 26 pages!

All cos someone wants to run a LRM rack on a mixed build AS7???

The burning rears are real.

[Mystere]

lordtzar, on 15 February 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

You'd be tier 1 if you spent a tenth of the time you're posting on the forums playing the actual game.

If you had been paying closer attention, you'd realize easily that he does not care how long he gets there as long as he is having fun! So you just wasted electrons and made me waste some more just to point it out to you.

Edited by Mystere, 15 February 2016 - 03:29 PM.

[Deathlike]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

And If one is not trying to go up the tiers (for reasons starting from more offence in higher tiers to pure disbelief that tier matter) then what are the reasons for those 11 players who came to the solo queue? Why those 11 are not expecting things like that (taht happen almost every match)? Match is balanced (PSR has settle more or less), there is a not so motivated player on their team also (by pure probabilities), so why to expect that everybody should carry alike? Solo queue where you are expected to carry for you and for that guy.
Again, we are more to the philosophical aspects of gaming as human behavior phenomenon and reasons and motivations for that. To get closer back to the topic, do you find it reasonable to offend a player on his build/performance (in before the match actively began) in a solo queue where you have to expect to have to carry for you and for that guy? I find no foot for that since this is a team game with those expected (not sure of intended) situations.

I think it's a realistic expectation that everyone does their part in every attempt to win the match. The level of competitiveness of a person and how they feel about things, dictates how it is presented to you and others. Mind you, I still watch a 1v1 battle where some guy I'm specing can't aim, and am willing to concede that we're going to lose. It's just the way things are.

I personally don't bother spending the time to say much about the quality of the players in the match (it's part of PUG Life™). It's not worth it. It's easier to log this in the back of my mind (whether it is by group or players involved) and move on. Some people refuse to move on, and usually get vocal about it.

Some people offer help, but aren't always constructive about it (aka backseat driving, or just nasty about how they tell you), and that's mostly people being people.

Sometimes people don't recognize that they are being carried... by others that do the bulk of the work, probably die in the process, and keep thinking that what they are doing is "sufficient". Those "I'm having fun" with the Atlas carrying other mechs (I'm referring to the meme)... is a real thing in the solo queue. People are quick to assume this is "good enough" and never bother to see what's further than that. Then they play the group queue, and then get super-overwhelmed at how radical a change that is... and probably never play it again (because, the "meta tryhards" are isolated or something of the sort). That's just not how you "progress". This goes beyond the complaints of the state of CW for these same players (rehashing a lot of the same problems and not realizing how much they are gimping themselves - whether it is simple basic battlefield skills, or just their build).

So, it's not really a simple matter. It trends to other things in this game, and it's not really healthy for the game at all.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 February 2016 - 03:32 PM.

[Mole]

I can't be buggered to read all 27 pages of this topic but @OP: You think people moan about your Atlas build? Try piloting my Victor. Two Medium Lasers, 3 AC/2s, and 2 SRM2s. As completely silly as it sounds those triple AC/2s can really tear your face off in a matter of seconds. Up until I discovered this build I wrote off the AC/2 as a useless weapon. Most other people get a look at my build and call me a waste of tonnage but you can't argue with the results I get with it. I've got a KDR in the thing greater than 2. If you're performing, and it sounds like you are, then pay no attention to all the tryhards out there who think they know better than you.

[Mystere]

Sjorpha, on 15 February 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

This is a false dichotomy I think, and not realistic.

Many of the competitively minded players are solo players, and many of the casual players likes to get together with friends and run in groups too. Competitive mindset also does not mean you have to be playing in leagues and stuff, many gamers have a competitive approach to gaming in general, even if they only play that game sporadically for some quick fun they will still play it to win.

Every online game ever is evidence that you WILL have this clash of mindsets and that it WILL cause problems. It's a matter of dealing with that fact of online gaming, and the discussion should be about that IMO.

As for the OP, he's annoyed that people complain about his build. I have to say I agree with him, people should not be complaining about how other players build their mechs or play the game. That goes both ways, casual players should not complain about losing to competitive players or metabuilds either.

It is not a false dichotomy, merely that it is how I treat MWO and it's various options.

I know there will be a clash of mindsets. I've seen it in every multiplayer online game I have ever played. As such, I personally have accepted that many people do not care about competition and that they're around for the mere purpose of having fun. So I let them be without any peep from me.

And once a Solaris mode is created, you will "hear me loudly and vigorously" direct the "competitive types" in that direction.

[MeanFacedJohnny]

Alienized, on 15 February 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

im amazed that people ignore that selfishness can ruin the fun for the 11 other people in the team. *i want to drive what i want* is not the way to go at all. *i want to have fun without screwing up my team* is it all along. bad loadouts are bad. fact.

Spending a crapload of money to support a game I enjoy is selfish? (Could've bought a ps4 with the money I've spent on this game) Staying positive in k/d and w/l with a 'bad' build is selfish?
If I consistently win, and do decent I wouldn't consider that screwing up my team. So many of you guys remind me of the meta sheep in League of Legends. At least when I used to play that game, when my buddy and I did good with an unconventional 'bad' lane comp, even if there was hate at the beginning, by the end at least some would give us credit for doing well. This elitist mentality is what has killed, and will continue to kill, many f2p games. I want to see this game thrive, but when people get salty at someone for their build decisions or even for not doing well in a game or two, they will be less inclined to play. Let alone recommend the game to others. When people are told there is only a few 'right' ways to play a game, they will not want to play. I heard about this game from friends. Never played battletech. Have a few memories of MW3 (long tom on the atlas... good times) If I had seen this kind of seclusion and elitism when I started MWO I never would have continued playing and would never defend this game. A big part of the reason I don't play league of legends anymore is because of the everyone's a pro, elitist mentality. And we were pretty damn good at league too, but I still stopped playing, because of rude elitists that cry about any little thing that didn't fit the ever changing meta. If the sight of my LRM's on my atlas disgust you that much, you should think about your priorities in life. I never thought the mentality of this game could get as bad as League...

[Dahkoht]

MischiefSC, on 15 February 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Except you have that backwards.

You are dropping in a team game and sandbagging your team because you have fun doing it. No law against it, do your rhing but why are you surprised when your team calls you a dbag?

You are never playing solo in this game. Every match your bad decisions affect 11 other players. If you don't care that's fine you are not required to. Nobody else is required to ignore you being bad and dragging them down though.

You really live in your own little bubble don't you ?

There's nothing "sandbagging" about not running meta-mech 24/7.

And again , you duck the point that if you care enough to rage , rudely , in chat about the build-out another player has , its you that has the problem.

Period,

And again , the OP should just ignore anyone who yells in a video game , because , wait for it , wait for it,............

Nothing that happens in a video game matters.

/sounds of shut-ins and try-hard pro's screaming in agony.

Every time you and the minority of other pro-bro's go off in this thread about how much your enjoyment is ruined by someone putting an LRM on their Atlas that they play it's more sweet music to my ears.


Bottom line , is I (and most others) play for fun , and if it makes some losers rage and act like an *** in chat it's a bonus because I've got them muted before they finish their immature rant and get to keep playing , while upsetting them too.

I win all around in that situation.

Because nothing , nothing in a video game can make me upset , but it can you and the pro's , so that's really on you.

[MischiefSC]

So you don't wash but ride the public bus and because you generally don't raise your arms the stink isn't so noticeable so why does everyone keep saying you stink? What a bunch of elitist good hygiene police?

Pants before shoes. It's not an idea created by "getting dressed sheep" to force conformity it's a recognition of what works best.

If someone contributes well I generally don't care. Bad builds though tend to be bad and someone on my team doing poorly hurts my success. Calling that out isn't unreasonable.

You can not wash and still ride the bus. It's not being mean for the people next to you to point out that you stink though.

[pyrocomp]

Deathlike, on 15 February 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

I think it's a realistic expectation that everyone does their part in every attempt to win the match. The level of competitiveness of a person and how they feel about things, dictates how it is presented to you and others. Mind you, I still watch a 1v1 battle where some guy I'm specing can't aim, and am willing to concede that we're going to lose. It's just the way things are.

I personally don't bother spending the time to say much about the quality of the players in the match (it's part of PUG Life™). It's not worth it. It's easier to log this in the back of my mind (whether it is by group or players involved) and move on. Some people refuse to move on, and usually get vocal about it.

Some people offer help, but aren't always constructive about it (aka backseat driving, or just nasty about how they tell you), and that's mostly people being people.

Sometimes people don't recognize that they are being carried... by others that do the bulk of the work, probably die in the process, and keep thinking that what they are doing is "sufficient". Those "I'm having fun" with the Atlas carrying other mechs (I'm referring to the meme)... is a real thing in the solo queue. People are quick to assume this is "good enough" and never bother to see what's further than that. Then they play the group queue, and then get super-overwhelmed at how radical a change that is... and probably never play it again (because, the "meta tryhards" are isolated or something of the sort). That's just not how you "progress". This goes beyond the complaints of the state of CW for these same players (rehashing a lot of the same problems and not realizing how much they are gimping themselves - whether it is simple basic battlefield skills, or just their build).

So, it's not really a simple matter. It trends to other things in this game, and it's not really healthy for the game at all.

I'll disagree it is a realistic expectation that everyone does their part in every attempt to win the match. I think more are just playing to some goals (XP, KDR, dakka, whatever) that are not always absolutely require them to win. But neither you nor me have any argument, proof or other forms of objective metrics. So I think we agree to disagree on that (and further is philosophy). The rest I have to agree with, just 'cause I just agree with that.

PS: in CW you can shoose to drop with 5-6-7-mans (checking palnet queue) to get the feel and to learn faster and have it the best way you can (those units ... well, I've seen how they utilize soloplayers to the best, so they manage to use any help and not to turn in to liability). To drop with all solo players ... Well, I prefer no to.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I think this thread ultimately boils down to this:

- People disagree on just how "tryhard" we all have to be to feel like folks are trying to win.
- Some people want to educate others to help them get better.
- Some people, the crux of this thread, are ******* when they try to educate others, usually out of frustration or because they are genuinely just ****** human-beings.
- Most people who slog through this game, are trying to enjoy it, whether it's frankenmech style or meta-tryhard style or whatever in between.

[MeanFacedJohnny]

Cathy, on 15 February 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Actually the only time LRM's are useful is in Pugs whether its quick play or CW, as most sniper weapons out range LRM's Gauss, ERLL, ERPPC, AC2, U/AC5. LRM won't keep anyone from getting line of sight on you, and a good player won't allow the missile hits to put them off. O.P I'm not going to tell you how you should build your mech, I'm certainly not going to insult you like some of the rabbit Cretins that have replied to your post, though it is rather defensive and you came looking for support and got advice you didn't like, which is for the most part correct, and you will find out yourself if you end up fighting in pugs or teams where more people can aim straight. Shrugs People are correct, if your going to use LRM's on an Atlas, then LRM 15/20 are a bad choice, because of the tubes on the launcher, 10's and 5's are better, if your going to use LRM's, and there are better LRM assault choices. Myself I have an LRM 10 on one of my S variant loyalty mechs because I was to lazy to spend out on the second one, but it still leaves 3 srm6, some months ago your argument might have been valid when SRM hit detection sucked, but now while its not perfect a full alpha of 88 is nothing to be sneezed at in pugs, though an Atlas sighting in Comp standard play is virtually unheard of. As long as your not hiding in holes and not expecting others to do the dirty work of keeping the locks, then good luck to you, though sooner or later you will realise that the advice from the more reasonable player in this thread is correct

As I've said multiple times, I have mechs taking advice from others. I just have a lot of fun playing this one. More and more people on here are assuming I'm bad at the game, or refuse to listen. I have a brawler atlas. It does well, but I get more enjoyment from my D-DC. It's not the only mech I play by a long shot. I have nearly 20 different mechs. The D-DC in question just happens to be my favorite and the one I get the most enjoyment out of. So please people, stop accusing me of refusing to listen. It's simply not the case.

[Deathlike]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

I'll disagree it is a realistic expectation that everyone does their part in every attempt to win the match. I think more are just playing to some goals (XP, KDR, dakka, whatever) that are not always absolutely require them to win. But neither you nor me have any argument, proof or other forms of objective metrics. So I think we agree to disagree on that (and further is philosophy). The rest I have to agree with, just 'cause I just agree with that.

The mindset of the newest of players should almost always be this...

1) I need to make sure I know how to play the game (aka drive and shoot and etc.).

2) I need to make sure how I can build mechs, to be more effective.

3) I need to make sure how I can help my team, or at least a teammate, so that they and I can succeed.

How they eventually get to that point where this is built-in is another matter.

The problem is I these simple tenants are not the things that get followed, and as such people truly deviate radically (even if it's just the simple "R" to target).

I dunno, maybe I'm too old school.

[Templar Dane]

Mystere, on 15 February 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

If you had been paying closer attention, you'd realize easily that he does not care how long he gets there as long as he is having fun! So you just wasted electrons and made me waste some more just to point it out to you.

And I said that after reading about how he 'doesn't care'. He's likely got less kills than his post count. If he spent more time playing the game and less time spamming the forums people might take him more seriously.

Also he'd be tier 1.

[MischiefSC]

The whole "It's a game and doesn't matter" is just saying you don't care about shifting the other people on your team when you play.

That's fine, do your thing. Why should they care if you're offended when they point out you being bad?

I run 4xlrm5s, 3mls, tag and 2xac5s sometimes on an atlas. I play up front though and draw a lot of fire. If I play badly or bring a bad build and get mocked for it I don't run crying because I got called to the carpet.

Nobody runs just meta. Sometimes you want to goof around or troll. That's okay. If I roll troll and someone calls me out on it though that's fine, I'm the one being a goofing around.

Obviously someone being a total belligerent jerk needs reported. That's not what we're talking about. "LOL LRM Atlas!" Should be expected though.

Pants Before shoes.

[pyrocomp]

Deathlike, on 15 February 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

The mindset of the newest of players should almost always be this...

1) I need to make sure I know how to play the game (aka drive and shoot and etc.).

2) I need to make sure how I can build mechs, to be more effective.

3) I need to make sure how I can help my team, or at least a teammate, so that they and I can succeed.

How they eventually get to that point where this is built-in is another matter.

The problem is I these simple tenants are not the things that get followed, and as such people truly deviate radically (even if it's just the simple "R" to target).

I dunno, maybe I'm too old school.

A friend of mine that I brought to the game... or more precise, whom I showed the game, stayed here because of those shiny mechs (with some more interest after her mothers comment to her about Timber 'oh, I remember that one'). Really accepted artistic part of the game.
As to mind set... well, as long as I remember it's better described 'I don't want to suck'. All that you wrote are a road-map of an old salty gamer (with all those IDDQDs and IDKFAs long since abbandoned - not forgotten - even for the difficult games) who can read a game at a glance. New players usually need to be politely and softly adviced on those, since pt.3 seemes like a complete mystery to many. Really, not obvious as there is no description how the match outcome matters (and win adds points. C-bills etc).