679 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

I think I've kinda figured out how to express my feelings on this matter a little better than I was able to when this topic started yesterday.

The "all for myself" sorta mentality that we see in online games, expressed quite often in this topic, is something wholely unique under the umbrella of anonymity offered by the internet. If players actually had to sit down in a room with 11 other players - computers arrainged in a circle so they could look other players in the eye - noone would be arguing that "I play how I want for my own enjoyment." The reason, simply put, is that if forced into a room with other people, these will be treated as real human beings, and all social norms will be followed. When these "people" are just random names on a screen... no more important or influential than a pre-programmed AI teammate, and under the cover of full anonymity and without any real social consequences... it's very easy to break from social norms and go rogue for the sake of one's own enjoyment.

I'd say this would be akin to registering for a pick-up hockey league, where you specify your desired role as a goalie... but when your turn to play comes up, you show up without a goalie's kit... no goalie pads, no goalie stick... not even skates. You show up with a baseball catcher's mitt and a cricket bat... you run out onto the ice, smack the puck from end to end any time if comes near you, and yell "STEPHAN CURRY, BI***ES!" You don't understand why everyone is mad. It's just a game, and you came here to have fun. Smacking hockey pucks across the ice with a cricket bat is how you like to have fun, and goalie is the only position on a hockey team you even know the name of, so that's what you registered as. You payed your money, same as everyone else, so why shouldn't you get to play however you want?

Things like this never happen in the real world... but under the anonymity of the interwebs, we should expect this as a purely acceptable norm? I think not.

And why WOULD it be acceptable here? The argument has been that this is a video game. It's just for fun. Well, I'd say that, technically yes, this IS a video game. But more accurately, it's a sport.

As defined in Wikipedia:

Sports are "forms of usually competitive physical activity or games which, through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and skills while providing entertainment to participants, and in some cases, spectators. Usually the contest or game is between two sides, each attempting to exceed the other."

Now, we know that the defining characteristic of "sports" is moving away from the purely physical to include any such competitions that pit groups or individuals against each other in skill-based activities. Competitive multiplayer online games like MWO define their entire model on the concept of sport. In fact, in MWO there is no such thing as a non-competitive mode or game type. Every single mode is sport... 2 teams pitted against each other in organized competition to use, maintain, or improve ability and skill while providing entertainment to participants, with each of two sides attempting to exceed each other. There isn't a single "just for the lulz and my personal enjoyment" game mode in MWO.

By electing to register yourself for a match in a competitive game, you are signing yourself in to compete. You should expect to do so and equip yourself accordingly. And each member of a team should be able to expect that the other 11 players he's matched with are also there to compete, and are equipped accordingly. By clicking that match button, you're saying that you're ready to be an equal member of a 12-person team. 12 real, flesh and blood human beings who came to try to out-play the other team. By all means, have fun with it. It's a game after all. Football is a game, as seriously as people take that. You don't have to take it so seriously that you can't enjoy yourself. But at least take it seriously enough so that you're able to contribute in the way you've billed yourself as being able to do so.

How is it fair to anyone if you're that one guy out on the ice with a cricket bat, leaving the team missing the goalie you said you were going to be? You wouldn't be that guy in real life... nor would you expect society would ever allow you to attempt to be that guy in real life. So why is it somehow acceptable HERE?

Edited by ScarecrowES, 15 February 2016 - 04:39 PM.

[Zolaz]

The OP is complaining because other people are trying to make him better in spite of his own best efforts.

[plodder]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 14 February 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

I really enjoy this game. I would consider myself a casual player. The fact that I've spent nearly $300 on this game since I started 3 years ago should tell you how much I like this game. That being said, I'd still consider myself a casual player. By no means do I play every single day.

Anyway to the point;

I got into this game because I loved the idea of customizing giant robots however I like, and battling with others who have done the same. However the past few months I can't go 3 games without someone b*tching at me for having LRM's on my AtlasD-DC. My build is 2 ER Lrg lasers, an AC 20, LRM 20, LRM 5, and ECM. It's what I have found I like best after playing this mech for 3 years. My DC (Hank) is my favorite, as well as my mainly used mech. (it's the 2nd mech I ever bought) I currently have a 1.41 W/L ratio and a 1.10 K/D ratio with it. I rarely do 'bad' with it and tend to do between 300-600 dmg a match. I know there are those with far better scores but as I have said I am a casual player and to me, staying positive is all that matters. And enjoying myself when I play.

And that is how it should be. It shouldn't matter what my build is as long as I do well with it and have fun with it. As should be the case for anyone enjoying this game. It's become so aggravating that last night I actually told someone to, "please eat a d*ck and stop telling people how to play the game". That's the first time I've ever been an *ss to anyone in this game, and to that person I do apologize. However it's nobody's business how I build my mech, nor should I have to hear about it every 2-3 games. (for the record the person who said that to me died early and did eighty something damage) There is no one single way to build any mech in this game, that's the beauty of it. That is why I love this game and it's the only 'shooter' I play. (if you want to call it that)

So please, everybody, stop crying about other people's builds, and if you must say something, don't be a d*ick about it. I shouldn't have to defend my choices in this game to anyone. Especially if I'm not losing games.

Edit: I'm not looking to have my ego stroked. I"m only trying to say there is no reason to hate on someone for using a build they enjoy in this game. Especially if that build works for that person.

Edit 2: Because of advice from this thread, I have switched to 2 lrm 10. They do work better I won't deny it. Thanks for that bit of advice to the people who recommended it.

Edit 3: So many people assume I stand back and lob lrms all day. I use lrms on the slow march to the fight to dish out what damage I can on the way. When I get to the fight, I can still use my lrms on far off targets while using my ac20 and lasers to fight those nearby. Also my speed is 52 not 48. Lrms don't become useless once you are in the thick of it, you can still use them to hit targets in the distance.

Final edit: I do have a brawler atlas. My AS7S(L) has 4 srm 6, 4 med pls, and an ac5. It also does well and I enjoy it. My D-DC is just my favorite mech, always has been, and as long as I do well with it don't see why it should be an issue to anyone. So if you want to give friendly advice, that's fine, and I may or may not choose to listen to it. Just be respectful about it. Use tact, make your point without making an enemy.
GLHF.

Bad builds are good builds if they work for the pilot. Some say the Atlas is a bad mech, not me mind ya.
Since my ping has been messed up, I have been forced to use the easy weapon myself. with a ping of 700 to 2000 I have had many matches with 600 to 800 damage ad kills. So I have been mixing them in a bit when my ping is good.
With your Atlas you have good direct fire weapons and hopefully(my world) you do not wait till your lrms are used to use those weapons.
I think it is great if you are wading into a battle AC 20 smashing, lg lasers zapping. really there is a lot of front line battle that is that 200 meter and more. So a perfect LRM playing ground. Many LRM pilots do not seem to feel that way. When My ping is bad I hang back to 3-400 meters.
I know some elite players that brag on their priceless build that they wreck in......but what they don't realize is, their skill overcomes the deficiencies of the mech.. or, it attributes cannot be exploited unless you have the skill, hardware and connection to make it succeed. Give those guys a small laser and a club and they still get the Ace of Spades. ..lol

[Nauht]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

I think I've kinda figured out how to express my feelings on this matter a little better than I was able to when this topic started yesterday.

/snip

tldr;

My fun > your fun....

... especially when it's with randoms you'll never see.

[Mystere]

Zolaz, on 15 February 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

The OP is complaining because other people are trying to make him better in spite of his own best efforts.

I think you missed this part from the OP:

Quote

don't be a d*ick about it.

I don't blame you. You were apparently not the only one.

[Sjorpha]

MeanFacedJohnny, on 15 February 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

As I've said multiple times, I have mechs taking advice from others. I just have a lot of fun playing this one. More and more people on here are assuming I'm bad at the game, or refuse to listen. I have a brawler atlas. It does well, but I get more enjoyment from my D-DC. It's not the only mech I play by a long shot. I have nearly 20 different mechs. The D-DC in question just happens to be my favorite and the one I get the most enjoyment out of. So please people, stop accusing me of refusing to listen. It's simply not the case.

Your problem, both in the game where you're being yelled at and in this thread where people misrepresent you, is that the game is actually full of completely off the map useless atlas pilots with LRMs.

I'm serious, atlases with LRMs hiding in the back has been the poster case for complete scrubbyness for years. Everyone who has played the game for some time has had the matches where an atlas LRM boat is hiding somewhere, refusing to join the fight and not hitting anything or doing any meaningful with his LRMs either.

You are being confused with all those people. You're not hiding uselessly in the back, you're not loading only LRMs on your mech, you're not refusing to take some hits for the team, you're probably actually hitting things with your LRMs and getting your own locks too.

But it doesn't matter, because people see LRM racks on your atlas and they thing you are "one of those guys". It's downhill from there. The problem it that 99 of the 100 times you facepalm at the sight of an LRM atlas, the results will confirm that reaction.

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 February 2016 - 04:39 PM.

[Mystere]

Sjorpha, on 15 February 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

Your problem, both in the game where you're being yelled at and in this thread where people misrepresent you, is that the game is actually full of completely off the map useless atlas pilots with LRMs.

I'm serious, atlases with LRMs hiding in the back has been the poster case for complete scrubbyness for years. Everyone who has played the game for some time has had the matches where an atlas LRM boat is hiding somewhere, refusing to join the fight and not hitting anything or doing any meaningful with his LRMs either.

You are being confused with all those people. You're not hiding uselessly in the back, you're not loading only LRMs on your mech, you're not refusing to take some hits for the team, you're probably actually hitting things with your LRMs and getting your own locks too.

But it doesn't matter, because people see LRM racks on your atlas and they thing you are "one of those guys". It's downhill from there. The problem it that 99 of the 100 times you facepalm at the sight of an LRM atlas, the results will confirm that reaction.

And so people decided to "be a d**k" in this thread and proved the OP's point.

Edited by Mystere, 15 February 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Nauht, on 15 February 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

tldr;

My fun > your fun....

... especially when it's with randoms you'll never see.

Here, my friends, is the moron with the cricket bat.

[Dahkoht]

Zolaz, on 15 February 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

The OP is complaining because other people are trying to make him better in spite of his own best efforts.

The OP is complaining because pro-bro , serious bizness , MWO pickup group solo queue MATTERS , players take it upon themselves to yell and be all around ******** in chat.

Bit of a difference there.

If someone can't control their own mouth , and cannot conduct themselves reasonably , nothing they say has any importance at all. If they can't manage their own emotions over a video game,s they really are not very intelligent or worth listening to.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

How is it fair to anyone if you're that one guy out on the ice with a cricket bat, leaving the team missing the goalie you said you were going to be? You wouldn't be that guy in real life... nor would you expect society would ever allow you to attempt to be that guy in real life. So why is it somehow acceptable HERE?

All is good except that in solo queue in the very same team you'll have a forward in scuba gear and a pair of defenders with golf clubs, plus a pair of players in full pro gear. Opposing team might have a professional goalie plus ballet dancer and Elvis-double amongst them. E.g. you kind of expect to have some not-top-unit-ready folk in solo queue. If you expect to be carried and that Atlas failed it... I'm not sure the team was ready. Really, it's solo queue, you expect to carry for you and for that guy. Do I have a skewed perception of solo queue as always having people levelling new mechs, testing loadouts and plainly having bad day?

[ScarecrowES]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

If someone can't control their own mouth , and cannot conduct themselves reasonably , nothing they say has any importance at all. If they can't manage their own emotions over a video game,s they really are not very intelligent or worth listening to.

Pot and kettle, eh?

Also, you're misusing the word "meta" every time you post. This word... I do not think it means what you think it means. Meta has a very specific definition in games like these. You're using the word to encompass any notion of build philosophy that does not embrace pure user choice. Saying you MUST use a gauss rifle and 6x CERML when your roll and Ebon Jaguar is meta. Suggesting you shouldn't roll LRMs in an Ebon Jaguar because the mech is designed around the ability to use high-mount large ballistics and many energy slots, and thus benefits from a large ballistic/small laser build is NOT meta.

By the way... my Atlai... all 3 I use... would not conform to any of the top 5 builds for these mechs... so not meta... and yet are all 1000+ damage per match mechs that accentuate all the best characteristics of the chassis to great effect.

Effective builds are not meta. Meta is meta.

[Dahkoht]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Pot and kettle, eh?

Also, you're misusing the word "meta" every time you post. This word... I do not think it means what you think it means. Meta has a very specific definition in games like these. You're using the word to encompass any notion of build philosophy that does not embrace pure user choice. Saying you MUST use a gauss rifle and 6x CERML when your roll and Ebon Jaguar is meta. Suggesting you shouldn't roll LRMs in an Ebon Jaguar because the mech is designed around the ability to use high-mount large ballistics and many energy slots, and thus benefits from a large ballistic/small laser build is NOT meta.

By the way... my Atlai... all 3 I use... would not conform to any of the top 5 builds for these mechs... so not meta... and yet are all 1000+ damage per match mechs that accentuate all the best characteristics of the chassis to great effect.

Effective builds are not meta. Meta is meta.

I've never yelled at anyone in a video game as an adult , and you think it's ok to do so. Pretty much all that needs to be said there.

You think anything that happens in pixels on a video game "matters", I call that delusional , and sad , and hilarious.

Pretty much makes anything you say worthless ,and I love the fact it's soooo easy to get you riled up here and in game.

Rage tears are such a bonus.

Continue to scream in game like a petulant child , I and most others wont even hear it , but it's still hilarious.

[Mcgral18]

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

I've never yelled at anyone in a video game as an adult , and you think it's ok to do so. Pretty much all that needs to be said there.

You think anything that happens in pixels on a video game "matters", I call that delusional , and sad , and hilarious.

Pretty much makes anything you say worthless ,and I love the fact it's soooo easy to get you riled up here and in game.

Rage tears are such a bonus.

Continue to scream in game like a petulant child , I and most others wont even hear it , but it's still hilarious.

A "grown man" insulting others over the internet?

What a mature and responsible adult!


Get over yourself. No one's insulting the OP, but criticising his, quite frankly, bad build.
There's nothing personal over that, that's factual and in line with how the game plays.


Now, grow up, or shove off. Put forward a real argument, or keep whining about the neckbeard grognards that keep touching you in special places.

[ScarecrowES]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

All is good except that in solo queue in the very same team you'll have a forward in scuba gear and a pair of defenders with golf clubs, plus a pair of players in full pro gear. Opposing team might have a professional goalie plus ballet dancer and Elvis-double amongst them. E.g. you kind of expect to have some not-top-unit-ready folk in solo queue. If you expect to be carried and that Atlas failed it... I'm not sure the team was ready. Really, it's solo queue, you expect to carry for you and for that guy. Do I have a skewed perception of solo queue as always having people levelling new mechs, testing loadouts and plainly having bad day?

I won't disagree that solo queue often breaks down this way. Inevitably, its where new players and rogues will find themselves most. New players won't know better, and rogues won't care. It's where unit players go to test new builds (often against competition that won't be so punishing). There's no arguing that solo queue is the most "casual" queue, if you could define it as such. It might be hard to define things that way, though, when playing with tier 3+ players, as the competition becomes more solidified. As you move up, you see fewer rookies, fewer rogues, and fewer mouth-breathers.

The thing is... a rookie only stays a rookie if he doesn't want to learn. A rogue only stays a rogue if the community is willing let him gain reward for bad behavior. You probably can't ever do anything about mouth-breathers except work your way up out of the Underhive.

A rookie who doesn't know better... I'm very willing to tolerate. Hell, my unit prides itself on focusing on new player development, and I'm always willing to point newer players to better builds and tactics. But if after 2 years of being pointed at better builds and tactics, you're still unwilling to get with the program... well, you're either a rogue, or a mouthbreather. Either way, you're not going to get tolerated very well by players who know and do better.

Dahkoht, on 15 February 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

I've never yelled at anyone in a video game as an adult , and you think it's ok to do so. Pretty much all that needs to be said there.

You think anything that happens in pixels on a video game "matters", I call that delusional , and sad , and hilarious.

Pretty much makes anything you say worthless ,and I love the fact it's soooo easy to get you riled up here and in game.

Rage tears are such a bonus.

Continue to scream in game like a petulant child , I and most others wont even hear it , but it's still hilarious.

You realize, of course, you're about the most petulant and hostile person posting in this thread, right?

Again, pot and kettle, kiddie.

[pyrocomp]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

A rookie who doesn't know better... I'm very willing to tolerate. Hell, my unit prides itself on focusing on new player development, and I'm always willing to point newer players to better builds and tactics. But if after 2 years of being pointed at better builds and tactics, you're still unwilling to get with the program... well, you're either a rogue, or a mouthbreather. Either way, you're not going to get tolerated very well by players who know and do better.

OP stated to have meta-Atlases also. Stated he play them. Stated that he perform better in that LRM build. So where if falls in you diagram? That 'I tried those proposed 'better' builds but still do better in mine own build'. Should he undermine team using community-approved build with degraded performance or help the team with a not-approved mech with a better overall performance?

[JC Daxion]

this thread is insane..


It's called a PUG, and Pugs are for casual fun time play.. for people to level mechs, to try things out, and learn the game.. If you wan't to play with Pro's Join a unit and play with pro's

Especially considering the OP clearly stated in his first post, or an early post.. i didn't bother to read all 28 pages, i got the jist after one.... He is Tier 3.. Just like me in fact.

That means i will be on teams that people have never even dropped in a trial mech, Or i can end up on teams that people are teir 1's in meta mechs. Some times i beat those top guys, others they beat me. But i always try my best no mater what i am playing, and i like to have fun. So if i wanna drop in my Spider with a pair of MPL's i am going to.

It's a game, and some people can totally suck at an FPS, i don't care what mech they are driving. I have seen and killed more meta mechs that don't even register 50 damage than i can count. (then again i have gotten killed in them myself if i am having a bad day.) But just because you suck, does not mean you shouldn't be able to play.. And if someone that sucks has a right to play, so do all those that can do well in non-conventional builds

some people play with their kids, some kids get there old man to play or mom,, or even sister. Not everyone is a great player, Nor should they have to be to have fun. So like i said.. Deal with PUG's, and what they are, Or better yet NEVER PUG, and go play with a Unit, cause i know i get sick of hearing how great some people are, or listen to them rage if they die, or the team does not do what they want. (granted i have gotten annoyed at times with people doing dumb things, but i try to take a breath, and typically say,, tonight's not my night, and go do something else.



OP: i will take a guy like you that knows how to play, and has fun playing, and trys to win, no mater what they are running.. verse so many people that have posted nothing but hate, or trying to justify there elites positions.




For the record, i just wouldn't play a LRM atlas, for me, i go with stalkers,, though an awesome might be worth doing as well. I have seen these mechs do quite well with them. Not to mention they are high on the list for re-sizing which is very nice

and to those that think all a LRM mech does is hide in the back, i dunno what to say.. LRM's work best from 200-450m.. Far closer than what most sniper run.. My LRM mechs, are typically just in back of the front line guys, and i do try to tank my fair share of damage too. I often will help with the initial push., and then as i tank damage, i let the brawlers pass, and i continue to lob damage over their heads, as i take my shots of opportunity with pin-point damage.

Maybe none of this maters in top tier play, but i don't care, In pugs, they can use many strategies, and have fun, and win..

It's like collage and pro-football. A spread offence, and no defense works in collage, and some people love the collage game.. But what works there, does not work in the pros. It doesn't make collage wrong, it makes it a different game. People need to understand PUG's and team play are different beasts.. If you don't like PUG play, don't play it.. go join a unit/team, and have fun all night with your friends..

Sorta like how i miss playing PUG conquests all night back when we could OPT out of skirmish and assault. We had a really nice crew that would run into each other all night long playing just conquest.. Boy do i miss that

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 February 2016 - 05:34 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The only important metric is win/loss. You can get high damage/kdr by playing very poorly. That's still bad, you're sacrificing your team to pad your own stats. I watched someone run off and power down when mostly weaponless last night "because it improves his PSR if he survives".

"I just get dressed faster when I put my boots on before my pants" isn't a good argument. Some approaches to doing things are inherently better. It's okay to goof around sometimes, we all do it. You can even just have an irrational hatred of doing things efficiently or whatever. Reasons don't matter.

LRM Atlases are generally pretty bad though. People are going to criticize them. It's a team game, nobody is playing solo. You're always affecting other peoples performance. They have a vested interest.

[Dahkoht]

ScarecrowES, on 15 February 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

I won't disagree that solo queue often breaks down this way. Inevitably, its where new players and rogues will find themselves most. New players won't know better, and rogues won't care. It's where unit players go to test new builds (often against competition that won't be so punishing). There's no arguing that solo queue is the most "casual" queue, if you could define it as such. It might be hard to define things that way, though, when playing with tier 3+ players, as the competition becomes more solidified. As you move up, you see fewer rookies, fewer rogues, and fewer mouth-breathers.

The thing is... a rookie only stays a rookie if he doesn't want to learn. A rogue only stays a rogue if the community is willing let him gain reward for bad behavior. You probably can't ever do anything about mouth-breathers except work your way up out of the Underhive.

A rookie who doesn't know better... I'm very willing to tolerate. Hell, my unit prides itself on focusing on new player development, and I'm always willing to point newer players to better builds and tactics. But if after 2 years of being pointed at better builds and tactics, you're still unwilling to get with the program... well, you're either a rogue, or a mouthbreather. Either way, you're not going to get tolerated very well by players who know and do better.


You realize, of course, you're about the most petulant and hostile person posting in this thread, right?

Again, pot and kettle, kiddie.

I just enjoying pointing out the idiots who think it's ok to get upset over a video game. Am I being hostile to anyone who thinks its ok to yell at someone like the OP in voice chat ? Absolutely.

They deserve to have their silliness in regarding MWO as a "competitive sport" and acting like an *** being ok ridiculed.

Oh , I even let my 4 year old daughter sit in my lap and push the enter button for LRM locks when she wants to watch "the robot game". I bet you just bit your tongue in anger over that idea. Imaging the idea of a parent letting their little kid participate in your holy Olympic life and death sport. Blasphemy.

Tier 2 , about to be tier 1 , and I cannot wait to see the 4 year old hit a button and kill the "competitive sport professionals" bragging on themselves and berating others for choosing to play their own way.

Oh yes , MWO is serious competitive skill.

Edited by Dahkoht, 15 February 2016 - 05:33 PM.

[Elkfire]

Hey guys, what's going on in he-

[Deathlike]

pyrocomp, on 15 February 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

A friend of mine that I brought to the game... or more precise, whom I showed the game, stayed here because of those shiny mechs (with some more interest after her mothers comment to her about Timber 'oh, I remember that one'). Really accepted artistic part of the game.
As to mind set... well, as long as I remember it's better described 'I don't want to suck'. All that you wrote are a road-map of an old salty gamer (with all those IDDQDs and IDKFAs long since abbandoned - not forgotten - even for the difficult games) who can read a game at a glance. New players usually need to be politely and softly adviced on those, since pt.3 seemes like a complete mystery to many. Really, not obvious as there is no description how the match outcome matters (and win adds points. C-bills etc).

The salt is real.

Some of us play games not giving a crap about the manual (most of the time, there weren't any good ones and/or you had to find/make them yourself). Lots of experimenting was done.

I find that we're playing in some sort of an "ADD" era, where figuring out how to succeed is Lostech, and complaining about stuff that was done and researched for their benefit (the meta) is a thing.

A good player usually ends up to the same conclusion the others have... but the difference is that they are more likely to understand WHY and HOW things work, instead of those who literally just copy and paste builds and tactics, and totally bomb on the execution of said stuff.

In this current era of gaming, it's just harder to convince people w/o experiencing and experimenting... and given how MWO functions, it's difficult to be sure whether you are progressing or not. People who understand the game (certainly more than myself) know exactly what the Atlas can and cannot do. While you "can" do so many silly things in the solo queue, it is invariably ineffective when things get far more serious - the more common build/concepts for the Atlas are the ones get cited... and for good reason.

It's not a random coincidence when people notice these things.