187 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

If you are using LRMs you should be getting your own locks and be at medium / short range. However, if you are able to see the enemy and get locks direct fire is just a way better option for dealing damage.

You are either gimping your team (by not getting your own locks and sharing armor) or gimping yourself (using LRMs when you can direct fire), either way LRMs are not an optimal weapon.

This isn't entirely true. Mostly true, but not 100%.

LRMs provide one distinct advantage over direct fire even in LOS fights: they give you the ability to have more than just the front line engaged in combat. There are a lot of places on just about every map where it is a huge advantage to be able to fire over your teammates at the same targets that they're hitting. If the enemy does not also have LRM Mechs, you're going to win those engagements.

LRMs are a force multiplier in tight quarters, which makes them really good brawl support.

But yeah, other than that you're almost always better off with direct fire weapons.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 18 February 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

This isn't entirely true. Mostly true, but not 100%.

LRMs provide one distinct advantage over direct fire even in LOS fights: they give you the ability to have more than just the front line engaged in combat. There are a lot of places on just about every map where it is a huge advantage to be able to fire over your teammates at the same targets that they're hitting. If the enemy does not also have LRM Mechs, you're going to win those engagements.

LRMs are a force multiplier in tight quarters, which makes them really good brawl support.

But yeah, other than that you're almost always better off with direct fire weapons.

They also allow you to engage units otherwise out of your LoS while you maneuver for key positions, and it's amazing how even comp players getting lrm'd tend to break off when they can't directly engage.

Mind you, I agree their use is situational which is why I seldom boat, but as a secondary/tertiary weapon system on some builds, I find them useful, though agreed, not ideal, note optimal in all situations

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 February 2016 - 04:55 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

There are the 1% or 2% of the player base that actually know how to LRM and then there is everyone else. Truth be told, LRM boats, especially Assault LRM boats, are a waste because they're typically driven by lesser skilled players that enjoy the more docile form of playing. I personally enjoy LRM Brawling which is a massive skill that not many people utilize. To be precise, it means dropping several "light" LRM racks on a mech capable of 90kph or master and using speed to keep your targets within your sights for extreme LRM uptime. People that forego backup weapons are bads, people that LRM all of the time from the back lines are bads, people that waste tonnage on Artemis and then do the afore mentioned LRMing from the back are bads, people that don't look at the mini-map and just LRM and pray are bads, LRM users that neither carry Beagle or TAG are bads, so on and so forth. This game is predicated upon maximizing your damage potential - failing to utilize all of your hard points to their maximum is a waste of a build and people should be told that (i.e., LRM Atlai are bad because of a lack of speed and the complete lack of synergy between said LRMs and the other hard points; carrying a single LRM rack on an Atlas as an "approach weapon" is completely different and not bad). The one thing that people always seem to fail to realize about LRMs is that they are spread weapons and, as such, will rarely achieve their maximum damage output. Having 5 tons of ammo is 900 possible damage but if you only have a 20-25% success rate with LRM launchers, that means that you're only ever going to do 250 damage for 5 tons - THAT is inefficient.

Think before you LRM!!!

[Jaymes Valluche]

Escef, on 18 February 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Wow, look at that, the EXACT same argument works against snipers, too. I guess the only "true" way to play is all brawling, all the time?

Yes. By all means, ALL of you, including the "at least one LRM-boat" mentioned in the statement you edited should be brawling in under 180. Same with the "at least on sniper" mentioned IN your edit. Both of them should be brawling, under 180, so that they can miss the point as completely as humanly possible.

If you're going to be sarcastic, you could at least read the full sentence you're editing.

[SQW]

My personal rule when using LRM boats: If you can't see where your LRM is landing, you are doing it wrong.

[Azalie]

I don't always pilot a Vulture Maddog...but when I do I chainfire LRM10s while strafing pointlessly back and forth.



It amuses me.

[Cai Merin]

Hey all,

I admit I'm a steam player. I remember being excited about this game's release when it was first announced and then it just fell off my radar. When it came out on steam and I remembered it existed I jumped in quickly.

I'm only in T3 at this point, and have stuck to quickplay until I get a solid drop deck, and my experience with LRMs is that they can perform well in low tier matches when people are running module-less trial mechs. I generally use medium and heavy peek-and-shoot mechs with radar deprivation modules, and LRMs just don't hit me unless I let myself get locked from multiple angles. They blow past me and occasionally hit my teammates.

I use lasers exclusively. I generally get 600-800 damage per game unless my side loses. I've had several games at 1250+ and one of them earned me the Ace of Spades badge (8 kills in one game). Granted, this is partly due to playing at T3 and I encounter a lot of new and/or bad players. My point is that the 600-800 damage I do per game hits very specific locations; legs on lights and hopefully the core on anything else. I think as I get better at this game my damage will go down as I'm able to pinpoint cores and blow people up faster. Using damage as a yardstick in an LRM boat just highlights why they become less effective as people get better at the game. LRMs spread damage all over the place instead of focusing components. I think it can be handy to have one LRM boat for the screen shake factor, but the only times I see LRM mechs do well is when the game is a slam dunk and they get to sit in back splattering damage all over the few remaining enemies while the direct fire folks orbit and kill them.

This is just the experience of a 2 or 3 month old player doing quick matches in low tiers. I don't have any CW experience. However, LRM assaults like I see in QP seem like an abusive waste of tonnage in CW.

Edit: To sounds like less of a ***** I need to point out that I use fully unlocked and modded mechs against people that are most likely using trial mechs when I do well. When I hop in a trial mech I get rolled up like a burrito most of the time.

Edited by Cai Merin, 18 February 2016 - 05:56 PM.

[Novakaine]

LOLz let me add to your rage.

Trauglodyte, on 18 February 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

There are the 1% or 2% of the player base that actually know how to LRM and then there is everyone else. Truth be told, LRM boats, especially Assault LRM boats, are a waste because they're typically driven by lesser skilled players that enjoy the more docile form of playing. I personally enjoy LRM Brawling which is a massive skill that not many people utilize. To be precise, it means dropping several "light" LRM racks on a mech capable of 90kph or master and using speed to keep your targets within your sights for extreme LRM uptime. People that forego backup weapons are bads, people that LRM all of the time from the back lines are bads, people that waste tonnage on Artemis and then do the afore mentioned LRMing from the back are bads, people that don't look at the mini-map and just LRM and pray are bads, LRM users that neither carry Beagle or TAG are bads, so on and so forth. This game is predicated upon maximizing your damage potential - failing to utilize all of your hard points to their maximum is a waste of a build and people should be told that (i.e., LRM Atlai are bad because of a lack of speed and the complete lack of synergy between said LRMs and the other hard points; carrying a single LRM rack on an Atlas as an "approach weapon" is completely different and not bad). The one thing that people always seem to fail to realize about LRMs is that they are spread weapons and, as such, will rarely achieve their maximum damage output. Having 5 tons of ammo is 900 possible damage but if you only have a 20-25% success rate with LRM launchers, that means that you're only ever going to do 250 damage for 5 tons - THAT is inefficient.

Think before you LRM!!!

Lurm this.

[adamts01]

wanderer, on 18 February 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

If you're not getting your own locks, you're failing at using LRMs to begin with.

Not always true. I run no armor LRM boats with some guys and never see a mech the entire match but win the game because I have a dedicated spotter. Without planning on that strategy, you're right.

The Atlas Overlord, on 18 February 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

How much "damage" can you "absorb" in an atlas by standing around getting shot?

I never said "stand around and get shot." I said it's everyone's job to spread damage among the entire team. And yes, that means get shot at, take some aggression off your teammates, maybe take some serious damage so the 11 other cored out mechs on your team can get a few more shots off before they die. Nowhere did I even hint that you should tank. Of course with prior planning, this isn't always the case. See above example.

Escef, on 18 February 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Wow, look at that, the EXACT same argument works against snipers, too. I guess the only "true" way to play is all brawling, all the time?

Bad snipers use their team as shields and pad their damage. Good snipers take as much pressure off their team as possible, many times by having the enemy team focus the sniper. That doesn't mean "brawling. all the time." Why does everyone hear "spread damage" or "don't hide in the back" and immediately think it means YOLO forward at max speed? I'm normally the last one alive when sniping because I do well at keeping away on the flanks, but I'm normally pretty wrecked from trying to get the enemy to focus on the annoying sniper instead of my team.

[Trauglodyte]

Quote

Lurm this.

I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not, Novakaine. At any rate, the Hunchie 4J is one of my favorites. If it had JJs, I'd be in hog heaven. 2x LRM5s, 6 Md Lasers, 3 tons of ammo and lots of heat sinks. Come at me mech bros!!!

Edited by Trauglodyte, 18 February 2016 - 06:02 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

FupDup, on 18 February 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

How are you going to get enough tonnage for 90 LRMs on a 60 ton mech? Smurfys tells me you only get 5 tons of ammo and no backup weapons or Active Probe, unless you strip a lot of armor...

I call mine the "longbow"

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3deab58d9b14d80

you would be surprised the names you get called, and the frequency with which you can break 1k damage.

and its not like any other lurm boat, literally in a league of its own in firepower and how you have to play.

(edit) note normal LRM ammo not arti, forgive me just woke up .

Edited by Mellifluer, 18 February 2016 - 06:13 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

This means you either have bad aim (no shame in that) or have bad awareness. If you consistently perform better with LRM builds, good for you. Just stop pretending that they are "good" weapons. LRMs are some of the worst weapons in the game, it just allows players who would perform even worse with direct fire a viable option to contribute to a fight.

I admit I can't hit the broadside of a barn. Only weapon/loadout that I seem to do well in are the up-close and very personal sort (that is; optimal range sitting at about 300m or less).

And to be clear, I'm not pretending anything; I never said they were good weapons. I said I do better with them.

My stance on LRMs is that they are just 'a' weapon, neither good nor bad. They have their benefits and detriments...just like every other weapon in this game.

What they lack in raw-damage, they more than make up for in other aspects, both psychological tactical, and I try to leverage those things to either my advantage or my team's advantage.

[Escef]

Demoyan, on 18 February 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

You just told the whole forums how bad they are yourself...

I never get tired of telling tools like you how bad I am.
















Would you like some more?

[Cai Merin]

Escef, on 18 February 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

I never get tired of telling tools like you how bad I am.
















Would you like some more?

Escef. your highlight reel looks like games that I feel pretty good about and then forget. And you are splattering damage all over the place instead of focusing components.

Granted, you may be playing at a higher tier than I am. ****'s pretty derpy at T3.

[Escef]

adamts01, on 18 February 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

Why does everyone hear "spread damage" or "don't hide in the back" and immediately think it means YOLO forward at max speed?

For the same reason why people think "hold locks" means "stare at teh enemy until they kill you". Because it for some reason is easier to believe that people want you to die than that they are simply asking for whatever help you can give without slitting your own throat..

[Trauglodyte]

If you don't have a 55% hit rate with LRMs on the stats page here on the forums, you're LRMing way wrong.

[Escef]

Cai Merin, on 18 February 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Escef. your highlight reel looks like games that I feel pretty good about and then forget. And you are splattering damage all over the place instead of focusing components.

Granted, you may be playing at a higher tier than I am. ****'s pretty derpy at T3.

Honestly, many of those are pre-tier system (I think all of them, actually), and only one of them with an LRM boat (the BLR-1S). EDIT: Two of them, the CPLT-C4 is mostly LRMs.

People want to tell me that I'm a bad player for using an LRM boat every now and again, and I'm like, sure ok, whatever you say, toolbag. I'm not going to beg for their approval because every now and again I feel like playing but don't feel mentally fresh enough to use a striker build.

Edited by Escef, 18 February 2016 - 06:36 PM.

[Cai Merin]

In my limited experience, LRMing appears to be LRMing the wrong way.

Also, why do people fire off their weapons when the game starts? At best you give away your position. At worst you shoot your teammate in the back (this happens all the ******* time).

I had one guy tell me he was testing his groupings. How do you not already know your groupings?

Quit that ****.

[Escef]

Jaymes Valluche, on 18 February 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

If you're going to be sarcastic, you could at least read the full sentence you're editing.

I did. I was demonstrating how insipid your post was.

Edited by Escef, 18 February 2016 - 06:36 PM.

[Cai Merin]

Escef, on 18 February 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Honestly, many of those are pre-tier system (I think all of them, actually), and only one of them with an LRM boat (the BLR-1S).

People want to tell me that I'm a bad player for using an LRM boat every now and again, and I'm like, sure ok, whatever you say, toolbag. I'm not going to beg for their approval because every now and again I feel like playing but don't feel mentally fresh enough to use a striker build.

I'm cool with that. Not trying to be a ***** at all.