187 replies to this topic

[lshtaria]

No matter how "bad" lrms may be, my lrm5x6 MDD with 4x cERML and 1x TAG seems to constantly perform extremely well in tier 2. Either I'm having the best luck ever in a lurmboat, the opposing team can't ever deal with 1 lurmboat or perhaps if I take a lurmboat I know how the **** I should play the damn thing.

[Rushin Roulette]

Tyman4, on 18 February 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ecm stops it
radar deprivation stops it
breaking lock stops it
your spotter has to hold a lock for 2 minutes to kill something

AND, 1 AMS with overload stops it...

This build is worthless. Either go up to a volley of 40, 60, or 90, or bring something else.

Personally, I prefer the 60 or 90 because it lets you alpha someone for a significant amount of damage. But if you are going to take lrm5 just go down to streaks or srms.

Rant done
Tyman4

I am not going to dissagree... but this only applies to newbie LRM users.

Ever one of your arguments is invalid (except for the AMS with overload. but that also counters the Streaks you are suggesting) if the pilot is not lazy and actually moves to the fight and gets his own locks (CAP/TAG and own UAVs are a must).

Then breaking locks works just the same as breaking locks for any other direct fire weapon, Radar derp works the same as any other direct fire weapon and as you are your own spotter you dont have to rely on others to tank for you. As an added bonus, you can also actually see if your missiles are hitting your target instead of your teammates, derping into a building/rock/bridge/<enter your own obstruction here>.

[Nightshade24]

Jaymes Valluche, on 18 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

You're "doing better" by sacrificing other people's armor for your damage.
Don't get me wrong. I consider LRMs to be a valid strategy. A LRM boat is extremely powerful support, and I suggest having at least one in group play.
I just want you to understand that they don't like you because you're playing a low-risk/high-reward gamble where you profit directly from other people risking themselves. They don't understand that THEIR role is specifically to sacrifice their armor for victory, and until PGI finds a way to reward them for playing blocker, it'll continue to be so.

It is virtually impossible to get all 12 people out in the open for the enemy to shoot at all 12 of you at the same time to share the damage or doing cycling (at least if you are not in a extremely meta co ordinated CW 12 man group who can do an extent do this to a 12 pug team...).

LRM boats are quite useful as they easily able to deal damage without shooting at the backs of the people tanking instead of trying to squeeze in front of them, get shot by them, and than fire. Due to congestion with the teams movement.

Another thing is LRM's is some of the biggest risks (to rather medium rewards) out there. A single light mech can ruin your day, or a well placed ECM mech, or lack of team co ordination (such as no one pressing R even though you and the enemy are engaged for half a minute in the open without ECM disturbance) or working together. You require team work more than any other mech (well besides spotters/ scouts).

You do not profit directly from other people risking themselves. They still get a bigger wallet at the end of the day due to them killing the enemy (as LRM's spread a lot and thus often do not get the kills), as well as the killing blow and other stuff like brawler/ hit and run / kill with most damage [depending on your mech] etc. All you got as an LRM boat is a sweet simple flat damage reward and kill assist most of the time. Also they directly benefit as well from having support. 1 vs 1 is always going to end much more uglier than a 2 vs 1. The LRM mech support could have assisting in disposing the enemy instead of the enemy killing him / running away.

The reason LRM boats can be percieved as them profiting off others for little effort is the fact that if no one works with the LRM boat or all things turn to custard than the LRM boat will suffer (easily hitting bellow 50 damage and such) as a direct resault as a break down in co ordination and team work. Meanwhile if he was an SRM boat or any other build he would have done better if things turn to custard. PGI has already rewarded people for 'taking the hits', in the form of "brawler", that's it because in hindsight it is stupid to pay someone to get hurt a lot... in the real world you would just get a bigger repair bill- a penalty. (and RnR is always floating around since it was removed, mentioned here and there and may return). The only reward PGI can really push is having a simple victory bonus as those who did do their tasks and/ or did the damage, the support, the damage soaking, etc etc etc. Will get a win, while people who are so timid that a medium laser at 1000 meters away is enough to scare them all behind a rock with a UAv above them then they most likely lost.

Note to self: I make huge wall of texts when it's "past my bed time"... I should go to bed more often instead of foruming.

[Kyynele]

If you have to LRM, 6x LRM5 MDD isn't a bad choice for that.

However, it is annoying when new players think they're most useful for their team when they hide the whole match and shoot LRMs to the walls every time they get a lock.

If you're completely useless when nobody's spotting for you, then you're actually pretty useless in general, and should learn to play.

[Tyman4]

Are we seriously having this discussion Again?!

Ecm is the Jesus box...unless you take counter equipment, I can prance my way around any lrm boat without a care in the world

Radar Derp does play different from direct fire weapons because with direct fire I can damage someone in a small time or distance window. Think strafing or a drive by. Radar Derp negates those missiles you launched when you had lock before they get to me because you couldn't HOLD the lock.

AMS shoots the missiles down reducing the DPS.

And you miss my point again...a volley of 40 60 or 90 will have less total missiles shot down than 3 groups of thirty. Not to mention, people seek cover when being rained on. You have at best 15 seconds b4 someone gets to cover and you need to swap targets. In those crucial seconds you need maximum # of missiles.

Look, tactically the only reason to have lrms is for indirect fire. Otherwise you tonnage is better spent on a laser or a ballistic. Therefore, it is really not necessary to bother with any of the frills that pgi tries to sell (tag, artemis, bap, cap), I mean sure they are nice but they don't really change your strategy. Your goal with lrms is to NOT acquire your target yourself. It's to stand right behind your buddy who is pushing and drop 50 additional damage on his target killing it before it can hurt your buddy.

If you are getting your target yourself you should just shoot with a direct weapon for consistent pinpoint damage.

[mark v92]

Otto Cannon, on 18 February 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

Yes, but it's lower. Ghost heat is applied based on the largest LRM rack you fire in the group, no matter how small the others are.

and thats why you fire them in 2 groups. Chainfire will get eaten by ams and alpha will get big ghostheat.
alpha only if you got a very small window and plenty of heat left.
2 groups will keep you firing and helps manage the different cooldowns.

trust me, i got 2 days and 19 hours on the maddog in tier 1. 95% of that time it carries lrm's.
mixing 15's and 5's is the best way to go for a maddog with a big missile count.

dont waste tonnage on 10's and 20's and dont waste chainfire missiles to ams.

[Jenovah]

Due to this thread I grabbed my 6xLRM5 MDDG and went for a spin... it was a *meh* round, but still... the scores speak for themselves...

[-Vompo-]

Tyman4, on 18 February 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ecm stops it
radar deprivation stops it
breaking lock stops it

You do know that those things stop your lrm 40. 60 and above builds too. The difference only being that the lrm 5 boater only wastes 5-10 missiles depending if they chain fire in one or two groups. The bigger launchers waste more ammo and spread the damage more and cannot deliver constant barrage like the 5's can.

[Sorbic]

Tyman4, on 18 February 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ecm stops it
radar deprivation stops it
breaking lock stops it
your spotter has to hold a lock for 2 minutes to kill something

AND, 1 AMS with overload stops it...

This build is worthless. Either go up to a volley of 40, 60, or 90, or bring something else.

Personally, I prefer the 60 or 90 because it lets you alpha someone for a significant amount of damage. But if you are going to take lrm5 just go down to streaks or srms.

Rant done
Tyman4

Except none of those things actually stop it but might slow it down. Yes ams with overload can eat up most if a player is dumb enough to only chain fire but when you catch mechs without it the constant rain can really annoy folks which is what I'm sure most posts like this are really about.

[Paigan]

Mister D, on 18 February 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

why?
Because you're useless anyway.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f74694ec0b4418a

It's funny: I had a idea like that a while back, with the following notion in mind:

If someone really wants to play a nice safe LRM-boat hanging back and avoiding enemy fire, it's moreless his DUTY to strip away armor and maximize the damage output as good as possible. Then, maybe then (given a competent LRM-boat player that doesn't shoot half his missiles into the terrain), an LRM-boat in the back can be worth its weight.

[InspectorG]

Op is correct.

6LRM5 in a Vulture is pointless.

You are supposed to run 6LRM5 in a Jenner llC.

[Otto Cannon]

mark v92, on 19 February 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

and thats why you fire them in 2 groups. Chainfire will get eaten by ams and alpha will get big ghostheat.
alpha only if you got a very small window and plenty of heat left.
2 groups will keep you firing and helps manage the different cooldowns.

trust me, i got 2 days and 19 hours on the maddog in tier 1. 95% of that time it carries lrm's.
mixing 15's and 5's is the best way to go for a maddog with a big missile count.

dont waste tonnage on 10's and 20's and dont waste chainfire missiles to ams.

I'm sure you were trying to be helpful, but you're not telling me anything I don't know. I'm glad you enjoy using your two LRM groups, but some players would find the unbalanced fast and slow cooldowns annoying and less fun to use, and others think the loadout makes the mech look silly. There's room in the game for all preferences because it's ultimately about enjoying your matches.

[Robot Kenshiro]

Think im with mosy ppl here and run 6xlrm5. Get my own locks mostly. Moving with group and not on my own since well...60t and pretty speedy. Stay with group. Give some space. Punch lrms. Observe for hits. Observe for ams. If ineffective. I alpha 3 at a time. Lrm5 cool down is plenty quick. Yea youbhave to watch ghost heat but shooting 3 lrm5s aint much heat. Occasionally let a full alpha ( think you can do 2 alphas before reaching high heat lvls i cant recall tho).
Depending on how much ammo and spare tonnage. 4 erml as direct fire. Or 4 ersl if carrying extra ammo.
I sucked at lrms. And i still do. But its fun. Lrms are bad bla bla bla. If used correctly they send ppl hiding.
I know everyone hides. Everyone. I hide when lrms are covering the sky. Obviously if you are trolling the open with the enemy bearing down on you expect to die.
LRMS have been the bad talk for ages. Its a useful weapon that requires a pilot to know to not stay in one spot if your group is on the move. That just leaves you an easy target.
I support lrms. They are not bad weapons. They still serve a purpose if used and supported correctly.
In comp play. Thats entirely up to the llayers and their units on how they utilise the lrms. Some use em. Some never ever.
But. Im a nobody. So...... see yas on the battlefield o7

[mark v92]

Otto Cannon, on 19 February 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

I'm sure you were trying to be helpful, but you're not telling me anything I don't know. I'm glad you enjoy using your two LRM groups, but some players would find the unbalanced fast and slow cooldowns annoying and less fun to use, and others think the loadout makes the mech look silly. There's room in the game for all preferences because it's ultimately about enjoying your matches.

i understand. For some reason seeing subpar lrm boats just bugs me.
those tips werent necessarily aimed at you, just at people reading the chat that might not know.

If you enjoy playing a mech that might not have the best loadout, keep playing it. im not here to tell you what you cant play.
and i totally understand the visual/symmetry part.

its just that the op was telling people to not use only lrm5's. I just gave my opinion on a maddog with lrms.

[Lily from animove]

Tyman4, on 19 February 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

Generally, my strategy is to build to 1000 damage. If I have the capability of 1000 damage in a match, that's all I care about. Y? Because that means I carried my weight. As we know this is a team game, and if I need to exceed 1200 damage that means my team was awful or out of position or something.

But, the LRM 90 carries 1850 rounds of LRM which I have used on several occasions to break 1100 damage. So no, it's not out of ammo on any regular basis.

The main part people aren't understanding in this thread is that, unlike the paltry lrm 5 drizzle...90 lrms in an alpha will SHRED an assault leading a charge...on several occasions it has stopped a push with 1 volley and the spotting mech.
BC that is 4.5 ac20's worth of damage into an atlas (nearly none of the lrm 15's will miss that huge profile)...

And if you push it into overheat, that's 180 missles on target in whatever the cycle time of the lrm15s is...vs 6 full volleys of the lrm5 drizzle...yeah I'm pretty sure which one will stop that atlas within 100m of starting his push as he looks for cover...

Tyman4

careful, because this is a bad way to calculate your possible damage. go to your stats page and see what your hitrate for lrm's actually is. then you multiply your ammo with this rate to see what damage you cna expect to happen with your current ammo loaded.

and your lrm15 will bring a lot less missiles through ams than 3xlrm5. thats just the way how mechanics work.. Past lrm10 stuff starst to get inaccurate with lrm's due to peopel starting to hide whe they get incomming missiles will be able to dodge some.
Seriously have a look at your stats page and your lrm accuracy for various racks.

[cazidin]

Don't hate LRMs. Hate bad pilots who equip LRMs and don't know how to use them effectively. I've seen good pilots with LRM builds, albeit in a Catapult not a Vulture/Mad Dog, perform brilliantly.

[wanderer]

Quote

Catapult does the LRM5 better.

Except for having no secondary weapons and a 180m deadzone.

I think the 9-hardpoint Archer is gonna take top billing for LRM-5 spam next month, if only because it can pack some close-combat weapons/NARC while keeping the 6x5 going.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Tyman4, on 19 February 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

I didn't say it wasn't fun, but pretending it is the best build...or even a good build is just silly.

Tyman4

Builds don't get your results. Being good does.

Which is why your meta-Jenner lost to a LRM Atlas.

Seriously, that should never happen.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 19 February 2016 - 01:02 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

MDD-A

Small launcher spam optimizes both rate of fire and weight/space consumption. Max armor, a decent ammo load, nasty lasers for close range fighting, and a cAP to get cECM credit... this thing should be quite effective.

[Whatzituyah]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 February 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

Cool story. Want to stop me? Come kill me. I'll be waiting to pick the meat off the bones of your carcass.

Those of us who know how to use those MDD are less than 400 meters away, have TAG and 4 erml.

You can run, but you can't hide, son.

I actually can stop you just not the way you think. I just can't right now because my computer is a potato.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 19 February 2016 - 01:16 PM.