64 replies to this topic

[BattleMasterAtlas45]

After growing up in Japan and watching Gundam as a child I was always intrigued by robots fighting it out and blowing each other up, but when I came to America and being exposed to the wonderful world of Battletech/Mechwarriors - I can't help to ask myself- Did Gundam influence the designs of EARLY Battletech/Mechwarrior mechs? The resemblance between some mechs and mobile suits are so striking that I've always been thinking, was Battletech influenced by Gundam?


Just as a matter of time Gundam was first released on April 7th 1979 by Sunrise Studios

And I believe Battletech was released by FASA Corporation in 1984.

Just want opinions

Edited by BattleMasterAtlas45, 06 December 2011 - 11:40 PM.

[Hayden]

I'd say Macross was a much bigger influence, especially RE the imagery. Gundam's depiction of Giant Robots is very different, in that they are highly mobile, even acrobatic, and pretty much defy physics. Not to say that Battletech/MW is really accurate either in that regard, but in comparison the machines of BT/MW act a lot more like I would expect of a lumbering war machine weighing dozens of tons. While the developers of Battletech may have been aware of Gundam, I doubt it carried much influence.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited by Hayden, 07 December 2011 - 02:13 AM.

[John Clavell]

Pretty much what Hayden said. Macross was the big influence for Battletech. Decisions which still have repercussions to this day. There are other anime which have effected Battletech in terms of the Mechs. I'm sure stuff like Transformers and other Mecha shows in the US had a big effect, in that people saw a market for their product. Design wise, I don't know if any of the mechs has a direct influence from Gundam.

[Nataku]

The universes are really different. As you can probably guess from my tag I love the anime but it had (from my knowledge) little to no influence. As Hayden said over the top gravity defying super machines versus Battletech's ultra realistic grittastic mecha combat.

[sadamle]

Look familiar.

[Dougram]

Hi,

Look at Youtube for : Dougram or Fang of the sun.
There you have Shadow Hawks, T-Bolts, Griffins, Goliath´s and as far as i know Battlemasters.

I think it´s from the early 80´s too.

Greetings from Hessen, Germany ;-)

[Saurok]

Nataku, on 07 December 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

The universes are really different. As you can probably guess from my tag I love the anime but it had (from my knowledge) little to no influence. As Hayden said over the top gravity defying super machines versus Battletech's ultra realistic grittastic mecha combat.

What?


Anyway. There are some things which are similar to other mecha series.
And 08th MS Team had very similar mech combat compared to Battletech.
But at the end, Battletech is far from common Gundam or other anime.


And that is Zaku for you
http://www.sarna.net...%28Peregrine%29

[God of War]

the battletech designs for the original 3025 Mechs are from 3 sources:
-Crusher Joe
-Dougram
-Macross

so thats a no for "Mobile Suit Gundam"

[ethnic minority]

On the contrary, I think western influences (we'll lump btech in with this) have influenced newer Gundam series (mainly Universal Century) to take on a more gritty, grounded approach. Gundam started off with colourful suits and acrobatic stunts - even though the same exists for today, many newer MS designs have also taken on an unconventional militarized look or grounded colours. The political aspects behind both Gundam and Mechwarrior are definitely similar - probably not influenced by one another, but influenced by the political climates of the times.

[Brakkyn]

Most all of the "mecha" franchises inspired each other in some way, then had their own layer of originality placed upon it. They're all essentially modified themes of the same thing--giants robots fighting each other.

[Xhaleon]

But... but!

Macross was the core inspiration, and Variable Fighters are EVEN MORE flippy acrobatic than the original Gundam!

And then they went and made LAMs anyway! Which one's the more ridiculous universe, huh?

Yeah, there's newtypes and their shenanigans, but that's just their unique constant about their fictional universe, just like Battletech has telleporty FTL drives to get around.

[eXecute]

I watch Gundam as a kid on Tooinimi on cartoon network, Loved the show (Gundam Wing at the time)

But if you look at it (mostly game play) I don't see any mechs in space fighting it out (might be in some books or a game I have not played) Most of the time its on planet side or with MWLL on an asteroid. Gundams where both, land/space fighting and I do like to see the space fights.

As I look back in my childhood I see a lot of robots, Power Rangers zoids, Zoids, Gundams, Robotech, BettleBorgs, Godess Canadate (Spelling is wrong for some)... Never really watch battletech (played the game on the Sega G and the MechWarrior 3 and Up games for PC and Xbox) and I have to say MechWarrior is the best..... Gundam is in 2nd and Zoids are in 3rd, the rest is trash (Altho I did love the Power Rangers Turbo with the cop zoid.... loved it.)

I don't see a whole lot of Gundam games out (Got the SD one but i hate SD - its for kiddy kids) and either out in Japan or where out and shut down. I would like to play MechWarrior, Gundam and Zoids in Video games, (all on PC if I can - or PS3 and Xbox 360 doesn't matter)

But for the Topic at hand, I would have to say maybe only because it's a lil sci-fi. The cockpits are some times look alike. I know G-Gundam the dude had a suit on and basically his body was the controls.

MechWarrior is more realistic tho, I wouldn't mind having an larg light saber tho (energy sword)

[cabadrin]

It would be hard to not be influenced by Gundam if you're in the giant robot / mecha genre. As Mobile Suit 0080 had come out a few years prior to Battletech launching, I think it would be difficult to ignore it. But, at the same time, anime was comparatively new in the states, and it was difficult to find series. Even up into the early 90s, it was difficult to find anime series on VHS. Most likely, they pulled from what was available, which was Dougram, Macross (later Robotech), and Crusher Joe. What's interesting to note is that their early mecha designs, pulled from Macross specifically, were used in Robotech a full year AFTER Battledroids came out (in 1984).

[Haeso]

One thing I'd just like to point out to those who seem to think BattleMechs were slow or ponderous or anything of that nature: Read ANY of the books. They're actually quite agile. None of the video games has had an input device capable of translating that though, so 90 degree locked arms that seem welded onto the torso and hands that do nothing were what we've seen.

But in the books - you could shoulder roll, jump, fist fight, crawl, 'Mechs were indeed very agile, if they weren't they'd be damn near useless. Why make a Bipedal machine if it's just a large tank, so it can woefully inefficient and present an easier to hit target with less armor comparative to surface area?

[Paladin1]

Haeso, on 07 December 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

One thing I'd just like to point out to those who seem to think BattleMechs were slow or ponderous or anything of that nature: Read ANY of the books. They're actually quite agile. None of the video games has had an input device capable of translating that though, so 90 degree locked arms that seem welded onto the torso and hands that do nothing were what we've seen.

But in the books - you could shoulder roll, jump, fist fight, crawl, 'Mechs were indeed very agile, if they weren't they'd be damn near useless. Why make a Bipedal machine if it's just a large tank, so it can woefully inefficient and present an easier to hit target with less armor comparative to surface area?

While I agree that `Mechs can be quite agile, you also have to remember that a large portion of that agility comes from the pilot's skill in utilizing the `Mech to it's extreme. If you put a green cadet into a `Mech, no matter how agile that machine is, it can only do what the pilot is capable of pulling off.

[Haeso]

Paladin1, on 07 December 2011 - 09:03 AM, said:

While I agree that `Mechs can be quite agile, you also have to remember that a large portion of that agility comes from the pilot's skill in utilizing the `Mech to it's extreme. If you put a green cadet into a `Mech, no matter how agile that machine is, it can only do what the pilot is capable of pulling off.

Sure... But even an ace pilot in all of the video games has been able to do none of it. The input doesn't exist for it, that's the only reason we don't see it.

[Paladin1]

Haeso, on 07 December 2011 - 09:05 AM, said:

Sure... But even an ace pilot in all of the video games has been able to do none of it. The input doesn't exist for it, that's the only reason we don't see it.

I hate to say it, but I doubt we'll ever see that level of realism. Well, unless someone invents a neurohelmet soon. Now THAT would be an awesome game.

[Haeso]

That level of realism can't be more than a few decades off, if that. Technology advances rapidly, and it's shown no signs of slowing down. Technically reading brainwaves already exists, I just don't think it would be commercially viable right now or accurate enough.

Edited by Haeso, 07 December 2011 - 10:01 AM.

[Paladin1]

As sad as it seems, a few decades doesn't sound all that bad now. I mean, we waited a decade for another Mechwarrior and there are those of us who've been playing the TT game for over two decades now, so what's another three or four decades to get a real neurohelmet? Needless to say, I'll want to be able to plug it into a real `Mech, but hey we all want that.

[Tannhauser Gate]

These franchises are shaped by what the developers foresee as a successful product according to trends of the time. Giant robot designs and "physics" for games and tv shows will overlap to some degree as they occupy the same market space and will be related closely depending on time period when they were developed but they will vary depending on the target audience (i.e. age, geography, and local trends) Gritty, heavy, realism, vs clean, colorful, fast, less realistic etc... Also take into account that graphics "back then" relied more on hand drawn cartoon processes which allowed for more color and faster action. Today, computer graphics can push the grit and realistic physics factors much higher so games are becoming progressively more "realistic and immersive".

As for Battletech/MW I agree that it has more in common with Macross in terms of mech design but BT/MW obviously represented a much more gritty, heavy, and realistic approach. As time goes on, and graphic on PCs and consoles improve more and more, the gritty, heavy, and realistic stuff *should* improve.

Edited by lakedaemon, 07 December 2011 - 12:21 PM.