102 replies to this topic

[Mole]

cazidin, on 22 February 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

I don't want to nerf lasers into MG tier weapons, just limit alpha strikes. Their damage is unchanged you just couldn't fire more than X without penalty. I wouldn't want to break your mechs, my mechs or anyones mechs because some rely solely on energy weapons.

Oh trust me, what you want isn't worrying me. What is worrying me is the fact that PGI thinks: Balance = Completely breaking whatever is best at the moment instead of dialing it back a little bit.

[cazidin]

Mole, on 22 February 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Oh trust me, what you want isn't worrying me. What is worrying me is the fact that PGI thinks: Balance = Completely breaking whatever is best at the moment instead of dialing it back a little bit.

I absolutely do NOT want to break lasers. I like them too much but I know that they can do incredibly amounts of damage in a short amount of time with very little penalty/trade off to the user. If we had a proper heat scale and maybe even lower heat capacity this wouldn't be as much of an issue if would be an issue at all.

[Mole]

cazidin, on 22 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I absolutely do NOT want to break lasers. I like them too much but I know that they can do incredibly amounts of damage in a short amount of time with very little penalty/trade off to the user. If we had a proper heat scale and maybe even lower heat capacity this wouldn't be as much of an issue if would be an issue at all.

I know you don't want to break lasers, man. But PGI is gonna break them. I have no faith in their ability to come up with something reasonable on their own and they always ignore player made balance suggestions.

Edited by Mole, 22 February 2016 - 02:52 PM.

[cazidin]

Mole, on 22 February 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

I know you don't want to break lasers, man. But PGI is gonna break them. I have no faith in their ability to come up with something reasonable on their own and they always ignore player made balance suggestions.

What? PGI would never break something. They swing their nerf sledgehammer with gentle care in order to maintain a constant balance between weapons, mechs and skill.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cazidin, on 22 February 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

There'd be a few mixed loadouts that could still pull off a more impressive alpha strike but at some cost. (Either limited ammo, very high heat, or short range.)

That's already the case, most heavy laser vomits are mid range (because they use MLs to buff their alpha) and suffer from high heat.

Khobai, on 22 February 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

gauss was nerfed

Charge-up wasn't added until later, and it wasn't because of dual Gauss boats.

[jaxjace]

Or we could you know balance the weapons.

[Krivvan]

The meta isn't just lasers right now. It's lasers and brawl (mostly SRMs).

Sometimes I feel the forums are always half a year behind on what people think the "meta" is...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Krivvan, on 22 February 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

The meta isn't just lasers right now. It's lasers and brawl (mostly SRMs).

Sometimes I feel the forums are always half a year behind on what people think the "meta" is...

They are, because it takes a while for the meta to shake down to all forms of play.

[cazidin]

jaxjace, on 22 February 2016 - 03:12 PM, said:

Or we could you know balance the weapons.

Sure! How?

Krivvan, on 22 February 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

The meta isn't just lasers right now. It's lasers and brawl (mostly SRMs).

Sometimes I feel the forums are always half a year behind on what people think the "meta" is...

Yeah, SRMs are in a good place atm but the damage is a bit more spread out and they need ammo.

[Krivvan]

DivineEvil, on 22 February 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Not really. That "weakest" mech is a go-to Light mech at the moment, particularly relating to competetive league games, simply by the virtue of the most powerful alpha-strike without limiting it's effective range by small or small pulse lasers. There's just no more competetive Lights out there, except maybe for Arctic Cheetahs with their own version.

You're a couple months behind. The FS9-S is being phased out of competitive drop decks right now. I think we'd know that better than you.

It's being replaced by the ACH, the Oxide, and even the Wolfhound. The Light meta is in heavy flux right now and hasn't settled yet.

The FS9-S simply doesn't do as much damage with as much convergence as those mechs.

cazidin, on 22 February 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Yeah, SRMs are in a good place atm but the damage is a bit more spread out and they need ammo.

They're strong enough to outright beat laser builds in brawls now, and that includes Small and Small Pulse laser builds. But not so much that they totally replace them. They're in a good place yes, and in the context of everything else at the moment they don't need a buff.

Edited by Krivvan, 22 February 2016 - 03:26 PM.

[Druarc]

I think you need to take in the weight consideration of the mech as well, as 100ton mech should be pumping out massive damage. Also engine rating, number of HS, masc, JJ, target comps, maybe even weapon counts and number of different weapon types.

[Johnny Z]

The linking all the lasers together for ghost heat is worth looking at.

[Pjwned]

There's nothing wrong with an alpha strike itself, the problem is that perfect convergence makes them too powerful.

Solution? ELIMINATE ALPHA STRIKES FROM THE GAME BECAUSE I'M-- Address convergence (by toning it down) and solve a lot of different issues at once.

[Trauglodyte]

The OP wants to punish the Jenner, Cicada, Firestarter, Locust, Panther, Hunchback, etc. etc. etc.

[Ultimax]

cazidin, on 22 February 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

If ALL lasers are part of the same family as far as ghost heat is concerned then mixing/matching energy weapons wouldn't help them. At all. Worst case? An end of the laser meta and the beginning of a new, more balanced game. We might even see more mixed loadouts!

If they were all part of the same family they would be unplayable, your idea is worthy of ridicule because it is terrible.


We had mixed builds at one point, and completely clueless posters constantly lobbied for them to be nerfed.

And they were, and then we had a laser meta because every other good weapon system had been nerfed due to bad ideas and bad threads, like yours.

Edited by Ultimax, 22 February 2016 - 07:24 PM.

[cazidin]

Druarc, on 22 February 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

I think you need to take in the weight consideration of the mech as well, as 100ton mech should be pumping out massive damage. Also engine rating, number of HS, masc, JJ, target comps, maybe even weapon counts and number of different weapon types.

Theoretically, a heavy or assault mech would want to carry larger weapons rather than boat several small ones. In practice, they boat multiple medium lasers because the heat penalty is almost negligible. IS can probably put in a lot of heat sinks if the critical slots allowed.

Trauglodyte, on 22 February 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

The OP wants to punish the Jenner, Cicada, Firestarter, Locust, Panther, Hunchback, etc. etc. etc.

But I like Cicada's, Firestarters, Locusts, Panthers and Hunchbacks!

Johnny Z, on 22 February 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

The linking all the lasers together for ghost heat is worth looking at.

Thank you.

Pjwned, on 22 February 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

There's nothing wrong with an alpha strike itself, the problem is that perfect convergence makes them too powerful.

Solution? ELIMINATE ALPHA STRIKES FROM THE GAME BECAUSE I'M-- Address convergence (by toning it down) and solve a lot of different issues at once.

PGI won't implement a convergence or COF mechanic and I don't know if they'll ever implement a proper heat scale. Work with what you got even though Ghost Heat is lame.

Ultimax, on 22 February 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

If they were all part of the same family they would be unplayable, your idea is worthy of ridicule because it is terrible.


We had mixed builds at one point, and completely clueless posters constantly lobbied for them to be nerfed.

And they were, and then we had a laser meta because every other good weapon system had been nerfed due to bad ideas and bad threads, like yours.

If you ridicule me for an idea, please atleast use good jokes, not insults.

[jaxjace]

SRMS are in a good place, they should just get more ammo.

Lasers are still OP as **** and have been for over 2 years

1. Increase duration for all IS lasers by 25 percent. increase all clan lasers by 25 percent.

2. Decrease ALL laser dmgs to Table Top Values, Increase Heat to Table Top Values,

3. Increase ALL PPC velocity back to when poptarting was king. In addition adjust heat to TT values

4. Reduce gauss cooldown to 4.25 (i want 4)

5. When Armor was x2 from TableTop ammo was not, this is strange, and instantly made energy the way to go, the only exception to this rule was the ac10, some weapons received no bonus, others a 50 percent bonus and some other fractions but none other than the ac10 had x2, its time to be uniform with that and have x2 ammo on every ammo dependent weapon.

6. Rework LRMS... Someone else put an idea here I do not have one.

7. Either give jump jet quirks, go with the Mechwarrior Living Legends jump jet style, OR put them back to the way they were before they were nerfed, pick one, but what he have now is ****, there is no point to jump jetting highlanders, the only reason the executioner gets away with it is its massive engine, masc, and light low slot lasers.

8. There was no good reason to nerf the skill tree.

9.??? release mech packs. ???

10. Profit.

11. Adjust Laser Duration and quirk as needed.

Edited by jaxjace, 24 February 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[cazidin]

jaxjace, on 24 February 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

SRMS are in a good place, they should just get more ammo.

Lasers are still OP as **** and have been for over 2 years

1. Increase duration for all IS lasers by 25 percent. increase all clan lasers by 25 percent.

2. Decrease ALL laser dmgs to Table Top Values, Increase Heat to Table Top Values,

3. Increase ALL PPC velocity back to when poptarting was king. In addition adjust heat to TT values

4. Reduce gauss cooldown to 4.25 (i want 4)

5. When Armor was x2 from TableTop ammo was not, this is strange, and instantly made energy the way to go, the only exception to this rule was the ac10, some weapons received no bonus, others a 50 percent bonus and some other fractions but none other than the ac10 had x2, its time to be uniform with that and have x2 ammo on every ammo dependent weapon.

6. Rework LRMS... Someone else put an idea here I do not have one.

7. Either give jump jet quirks, go with the Mechwarrior Living Legends jump jet style, OR put them back to the way they were before they were nerfed, pick one, but what he have now is ****, there is no point to jump jetting highlanders, the only reason the executioner gets away with it is its massive engine, masc, and light low slot lasers.

8. There was no good reason to nerf the skill tree.

9.??? release mech packs. ???

10. Profit.

11. Adjust Laser Duration and quirk as needed.

I agree that SRMs are in a good place now. LRMs could use a slight velocity or spread buff still but they're in a good place now too. However, increasing the duration of lasers is the worst way to nerf them. Remember the days of 1.3 second ER Medium laser burn duration? 1.5 second ER Large Lasers? Let's never go back to that.

Here's what I'd do.
1.Increase SRM ammo to 120/ton.
2.Increase Ballistic ammo to roughly 200 damage/ton.
3.Increase Ballistic and PPC velocity to original, pre-nerf values. Adjust quirks appropriately.
4.Reduce Ghost Heat firing for IS medium and medium pulse lasers to 4 or 5.
5.Reduce Ghost Heat firing for Clan ER Medium and Medium Pulse Lasers to 3 or 4.
6.Reduce Clan ER-LL duration to 1.12 or 1.25
7.Reduce Clan Large Pulse Laser Duration to .92 or 9.5. (.25 more than IS LPL)
8.Increase the range of all IS lasers. (Except ER)
9.Reduce the heat of IS Small and Medium lasers by 1.
10.Reduce the heat of Clan ER Medium Lasers by 1.
11.Increase Clan maximum range to 1.5x of optimal range value. This would be a small but noticeable increase. It'd also add a bit more distinction to ER lasers, which would thus have a greater optimal range but lower maximum range.
12.Put PPCs and Gauss Rifles in the same heat family.
13.Fix Jumpjets. Do not make them OP.
14.Buff the Command Console.
15.???
16.Profit!

[jaxjace]

cazidin, on 24 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

I agree that SRMs are in a good place now. LRMs could use a slight velocity or spread buff still but they're in a good place now too. However, increasing the duration of lasers is the worst way to nerf them. Remember the days of 1.3 second ER Medium laser burn duration? 1.5 second ER Large Lasers? Let's never go back to that.

Here's what I'd do.
1.Increase SRM ammo to 120/ton.
2.Increase Ballistic ammo to roughly 200 damage/ton.
3.Increase Ballistic and PPC velocity to original, pre-nerf values. Adjust quirks appropriately.
4.Reduce Ghost Heat firing for IS medium and medium pulse lasers to 4 or 5.
5.Reduce Ghost Heat firing for Clan ER Medium and Medium Pulse Lasers to 3 or 4.
6.Reduce Clan ER-LL duration to 1.12 or 1.25
7.Reduce Clan Large Pulse Laser Duration to .92 or 9.5. (.25 more than IS LPL)
8.Increase the range of all IS lasers. (Except ER)
9.Reduce the heat of IS Small and Medium lasers by 1.
10.Reduce the heat of Clan ER Medium Lasers by 1.
11.Increase Clan maximum range to 1.5x of optimal range value. This would be a small but noticeable increase. It'd also add a bit more distinction to ER lasers, which would thus have a greater optimal range but lower maximum range.
12.Put PPCs and Gauss Rifles in the same heat family.
13.Fix Jumpjets. Do not make them OP.
14.Buff the Command Console.
15.???
16.Profit!

Negative, I DO remember the days of super long duration, that was fine Lasers either should be really really hot for their dmg like in TT or have them take longer to do dmg, they are simply the best weapon there is, and still would be in the top 2 weapon categories even with my proposed nerfs.

The laser meta is not just clan large medium vomit its also the unholy trinity laser (3x ISLPL) that weapon system is by far the most effective weapon in the game, boated heat sinks and firing all day thats a 33 dmg shot every trigger pull which is OFTEN, but thats not the kicker of it, its that it does all of that, in about less than a second.

[GreyNovember]

cazidin, on 22 February 2016 - 07:30 PM, said:

But I like Cicada's, Firestarters, Locusts, Panthers and Hunchbacks!

Your alpha limitation is gimping these mechs especially.

" No, bad 6E Hardpoint mech. I refuse to allow you to fire all your hardpoints without a penalty. What's that? You don't have the tonnage to do something different? PAH! As if that matters!"