105 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

Wolfways, on 27 February 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

I was busy looking after my son during the NGNG Town Hall last night/this morning and I caught a bit where Russ was talking about clan Endo.

Can someone confirm for me that I really did hear Russ say that he won't allow Endo to be unlocked because "clan mechs weren't designed that way" or something like that.
I'm pretty sure that's what he said although I find it hard to believe he's say something that ******* stupid.
IS mechs weren't designed to be fully customizable either but in MWO they are.

Hit the Deck, on 27 February 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

Really? So we will finally have what people have been requesting for.

I guess encouraging ballistic builds can't be bad.

Yea, We might see more people use the Gargoyles stock omnipods for the prime now.

Monkey Lover, on 27 February 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

Or lot more lrms haha

Tell me how deadly a Gargoyle LRM boat will be or a 1 missile hardpoint summoner?

Pjwned, on 27 February 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

I would rather see standard structure not be garbage than have a bunch of nonsense quirks.

How much will standard structure help a gargoyle prime?

cazidin, on 27 February 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Hmm... so... Clans have somehow unlocked the ability to carry more ammo for an equivalent amount of tonnage via this mysterious "qurikening". Clearly, their mastery of technology borders of the mythical powers of the ancients! The Inner Sphere must redouble their efforts to repel the invaders!

Lucian Nostra, on 27 February 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

So a the summoner is gonna get a choose what 3.5 tons of free ammo you want quirk or some such?

FupDup, on 27 February 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

We already have respawns...

In general, I don't think it's much worse than any other quirks in terms of "unrealism."

For example, why should a Summoner magically move faster with an XL350 than a different 70 ton mech with the same engine? Why should a Hunchback have different internal structure than any other 50 ton mech when all of them spend the same amount of tonnage on their structure (5% of maximum weight)? Why would the Medium Lasers on a Locust shoot further than the Medium Lasers on a Shadow Hawk? Etc.

All quirks are space magic. It's just a matter of accepting space magic in order to compensate mechs for being cursed by their innate design problems (many of which are ported straight from BT/TT).

Well, that, and the fact that space magic is necessary to make gigantic walking robots into viable combat machines to begin with. A mech like the Stalker probably wouldn't even be able to stand up in real life...

Well, in some games and kind of in BT is that each different brand/ specific type has different benefits. For eg. a "magma medium laser" will have 5% more range but 2% more heat. for eg. This is done in game in the form of quirks and modules... yea, a smidge lazy but overall more effective than telling a new player: oh yea there is the normal medium laser but there are also 75 other medium lasers that have barely a 3% difference from each other and some of them are literally worse in every way because they are a broken/ old model. Have fun memorizing.

Isn't that hard to believe as stated above "lighter ammo, done".
Similar stuff happen IRL, such as some tanks magically carrying more ammo even though it has the exact same volume as another tank. Happened a bunch in the Shermans in WWII and the T-34's...

I personally got no problem with this quirk. It is just as logical as everything else and in BT there is a lot of things not 'calculated' overall. Ranging from actuators being 0 weight, to things like having 'turrets' with no extra cost or a mech magically being 50% cheaper to repair like the Crab. I really doubt every mech is that exact weight to the dot. I doubt all 35 ton mechs are 35 tons. I just think that's just the catagory and they may vary from for eg 34 to 36 tons for eg. being where all this actuators/ myomer / turrets/ random quirk/ what ever came from. that's my explanation on all the 'magics' in BT and translated to MW: O.


Also I doubt Summoner will get a "3.5" ton of ammo buff unless you already got like 9 or 12 tons of ammo. I think it may be a 10% more ammo or 30% more ammo but nothing like 350% or anything above 30.

[Nightshade24]

Random personal comment time that isn't a response!:

I personally agree that we should not have unlocked endo/ ferro for omnis. I think most of them are fine as they are and only need quirks to nudge them the right way. I personally do quite well in the summoner as it is however ammo quirks will sure make it less of a niche mech. As I am myself aware that the ballistic capability of this mech isn't the best. As well as it's ability to unable to handle heat with high quantity of laser builds...

Improving the summoner D, C, and Prime will be the best step in the right direction.
I however wish the Summoner M is added, which will give an energy missile side torso.

For gargles... slightly similar boat, however it's mostly laser vomit is okay and missiles/ ballistics are not the best of ideas. So ammo quirks here is nearly the only thing here that can help it.

I personally think hardwiring is what keeps these things very unique... and forces players to step outside of the meta. Do not care that their 30-35 ton light mech is as fast as a 40-45 ton medium mech. Because they got an advantage of firepower and stuff now over other lights such as carrying gauss, LRM's, ER PPC's, etc. I personally wish some battlemechs had light level hard wiring or something but that won't be a good idea...

[Wolfways]

I find it funny how people are against imposed stock mechs because "customizing is half the game" yet many are okay with clan mechs not being able to be customized.
(Note: Only being able to remove weapons is not customizing, it is nerfing.)

Nightshade24, on 27 February 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

I personally agree that we should not have unlocked endo/ ferro for omnis. I think most of them are fine as they are and only need quirks to nudge them the right way.

So what kind of quirks do you think the MDD-Prime needs, considering that it only has 2tons of LRM ammo and 12 DHS?

[Andi Nagasia]

the Ammo Quirk would have to be +50% to +100% Bonus Ammo Per single Ballistic HardPoint Location,
so a Nova with Ballistic arms could have x3 Ammo, Finally 2xAC5 Nova is Possible!

Personally i think Any less than +75-100% Ammo Quirk would be Useless,
whats the Point in only +3shot on an AC20 thats 0.5Tons perTon, you need 3Tons to have 1.5,

[Kira Onime]

Ammo quirks?

You see Ivan .. 1 ton ammo on this mech gives 10 boolets but 1 ton on this mech gives 13 boolets

When you pray space god, you get more boolets Ivan,

[MauttyKoray]

Wolfways, on 27 February 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

I was busy looking after my son during the NGNG Town Hall last night/this morning and I caught a bit where Russ was talking about clan Endo.

Can someone confirm for me that I really did hear Russ say that he won't allow Endo to be unlocked because "clan mechs weren't designed that way" or something like that.
I'm pretty sure that's what he said although I find it hard to believe he's say something that ******* stupid.
IS mechs weren't designed to be fully customizable either but in MWO they are.

He stated he won't change it because its part of the MWO construction rules for omnimechs. If he changes it, even for a single mech (the Summoner was used as the example) it would open a can of worms for 'can you do this, can you unlock that, can you do this for a specific mech' etc.

So he said they won't be doing that...we'll see what he does do though for the clan mechs who have the issue (Summoner, but I still have a hell of a time with it.)

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

MauttyKoray, on 27 February 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

He stated he won't change it because its part of the MWO construction rules for omnimechs. If he changes it, even for a single mech (the Summoner was used as the example) it would open a can of worms for 'can you do this, can you unlock that, can you do this for a specific mech' etc.

So he said they won't be doing that...we'll see what he does do though for the clan mechs who have the issue (Summoner, but I still have a hell of a time with it.)

The only problem with this defense (that is, that it'll open a can of worms for requests) is that adding Quirks has the same effect.

People will still ask: "If you can add ammo Quirks to Summoner, can't you add them to other 'Mechs?"

That's an excuse to choose one method over another, not a real reason. A weak excuse, at that.

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 27 February 2016 - 10:10 PM.

[Wolfways]

MauttyKoray, on 27 February 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

He stated he won't change it because its part of the MWO construction rules for omnimechs. If he changes it, even for a single mech (the Summoner was used as the example) it would open a can of worms for 'can you do this, can you unlock that, can you do this for a specific mech' etc.

So he said they won't be doing that...we'll see what he does do though for the clan mechs who have the issue (Summoner, but I still have a hell of a time with it.)

So it's fair that he uses construction rules for omnimechs and gives IS mechs full customization? Why not lock IS structure and engines? Or give everyone full customization?

Kira Onime, on 27 February 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Ammo quirks?

You see Ivan .. 1 ton ammo on this mech gives 10 boolets but 1 ton on this mech gives 13 boolets

When you pray space god, you get more boolets Ivan,

If I pray hard enough do I get more (or improved) DHS for non-ammo mechs?

[Andi Nagasia]

its Lore to not have those Changeable?
so give us what should be Changeable?

Again then we Need,
Omni JJ Upgrade(The Upgrade Option That All OmniMechs should have)(Here),
Ambidextrous Arms/Torsos(which is Really How All OmniPods Really Work)(Here),
and Even Engine Type Changes(XL250 to STD250)(See SavageWolf TBR-Mk4),
(O and all 3 of these things will be Necessary for IS OmniMechs not to fully Suck)
Edit- Spelling

[MauttyKoray]

You all whine too much about stuff. Yes some omnis are a bit wonky and need help, but I don't think unlocking FF/Endo is the solution. IS mechs also can't swap their hardpoints, Omnis can, there's your reason why Omnis have the locked upgrades/engines. While it doesn't follow the TT Omni system, I think the Omnipods designed for MWO are a neat feature that give Omnimechs some flavor instead of their actually OP table top counterparts which can field exactly whatever loadout they want and be ridiculously imbalanced monsters. The only balance they had was the lore (which TT players avoid by saying an IS pilot is in a captured clan mech) and the higher BV cost.

Hopefully it does get the ammo and JJ quirks, or better yet JJ quirks on top of a reworked JJ system so that not only mediums can jump while lights 'glide' and heavies struggle hopelessly and the assault can barely hover their metallic butts off the floor.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 27 February 2016 - 10:48 PM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

MauttyKoray, on 27 February 2016 - 10:46 PM, said:

You all whine too much about stuff. Yes some omnis are a bit wonky and need help, but I don't think unlocking FF/Endo is the solution. IS mechs also can't swap their hardpoints, Omnis can, there's your reason why Omnis have the locked upgrades/engines. While it doesn't follow the TT Omni system, I think the Omnipods designed for MWO are a neat feature that give Omnimechs some flavor instead of their actually OP table top counterparts which can field exactly whatever loadout they want and be ridiculously imbalanced monsters. The only balance they had was the lore (which TT players avoid by saying an IS pilot is in a captured clan mech) and the higher BV cost.

Hopefully it does get the ammo and JJ quirks, or better yet JJ quirks on top of a reworked JJ system so that not only mediums can jump while lights 'glide' and heavies struggle hopelessly and the assault can barely hover their metallic butts off the floor.

Don't get me wrong: I'm quite satisfied with Omnimech rules as they are. I think the two construction type rules are a great contrast to each other.

I have no desire to be able to switch structure/armor type or engine rating. Certain outlier 'Mechs (Summoner, specifically) just need to have structure/armor type permanently changed. Not swappable, changed.

I also don't like them use of Quirks as a primary balancing mechanism (can't say 'system' because they're arbitrary!) because it prevents them from being special and bringing out the uniqueness of each 'Mech.

Edited by Brandarr Gunnarson, 27 February 2016 - 10:59 PM.

[Wolfways]

MauttyKoray, on 27 February 2016 - 10:46 PM, said:

You all whine too much about stuff. Yes some omnis are a bit wonky and need help, but I don't think unlocking FF/Endo is the solution. IS mechs also can't swap their hardpoints,

They don't need to, there are more IS mechs to choose from.

Quote

Omnis can, there's your reason why Omnis have the locked upgrades/engines.

What reason? That something I'm not using benefits me in some way?

Quote

While it doesn't follow the TT Omni system, I think the Omnipods designed for MWO are a neat feature that give Omnimechs some flavor instead of their actually OP table top counterparts which can field exactly whatever loadout they want and be ridiculously imbalanced monsters. The only balance they had was the lore (which TT players avoid by saying an IS pilot is in a captured clan mech) and the higher BV cost.

Hopefully it does get the ammo and JJ quirks, or better yet JJ quirks on top of a reworked JJ system so that not only mediums can jump while lights 'glide' and heavies struggle hopelessly and the assault can barely hover their metallic butts off the floor.

[nehebkau]

dervishx5, on 27 February 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

nehebkau, on 27 February 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

I have said this 1000 times -- and every time the TT fanboys come rushing in like Trump's hairstylists to defend the dice.

Go make your own non-Battletech themed game.

case in point

Edited by nehebkau, 28 February 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 27 February 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

We already have respawns...

If you hold your nose and see "respawns" as "reinforcements", then things make more sense.

[Mystere]

nehebkau, on 27 February 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

I have said this 1000 times -- and every time the TT fanboys come rushing in like Trump's hairstylists to defend the dice.

And at the same time the CoD kiddies still keep conflating "lore" with "dice". That must be some really weird dictionary they're using.

[Trauglodyte]

Wolf, I don't get your point here. You want Russ to unlock Endo for Clan mechs but you're firmly against getting a quirk on a specific couple of mechs that would mirror a tonnage gain similar to Endo. It is the same thing but it keeps to the lore. Nobody really cares about quirks. Do you really care that the one Locust gets a -50% energy weapon recycle? Then why on Earth would you care about this?

[Summon3r]

Monkey Lover, on 27 February 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

What he said is you will not get endo but you will get ammo quirks. This will free up the same tonnage as endo so you basically get endo if you use any ammo weapons.

i would be shocked if for example the SMN got a 300+% bonus per ton of ammo to make up for endo BUT if that is the case then props to PGI/Russ

[Wildstreak]

I am still surprised no one asks for more Summoner variants. With it now clairfied PGI will include variants further in the timeline so long as the tech fits the time period, there are a couple missing here.

Summoner-F, has 1 Ballisitc and 1 Energy in each arm, 1 Missile and 1 Energy somewhere in the torsos. No other Summoner has these arms or an Energy torso mount.

Summoner-M, not sure where the ER Small Laser is, if a torso mount and different than the F, it should be in.

At least, the F variant gives you new weapon options to consider.

[Summon3r]

Wildstreak, on 28 February 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

I am still surprised no one asks for more Summoner variants. With it now clairfied PGI will include variants further in the timeline so long as the tech fits the time period, there are a couple missing here.

Summoner-F, has 1 Ballisitc and 1 Energy in each arm, 1 Missile and 1 Energy somewhere in the torsos. No other Summoner has these arms or an Energy torso mount.

Summoner-M, not sure where the ER Small Laser is, if a torso mount and different than the F, it should be in.

At least, the F variant gives you new weapon options to consider.

people have been asking for this for a long time

[Andi Nagasia]

Wildstreak, on 28 February 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

I am still surprised no one asks for more Summoner variants. With it now clairfied PGI will include variants further in the timeline so long as the tech fits the time period, there are a couple missing here.

Summoner-F, has 1 Ballisitc and 1 Energy in each arm, 1 Missile and 1 Energy somewhere in the torsos. No other Summoner has these arms or an Energy torso mount.

Summoner-M, not sure where the ER Small Laser is, if a torso mount and different than the F, it should be in.

At least, the F variant gives you new weapon options to consider.

Summon3r, on 28 February 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

people have been asking for this for a long time

that and the NVA-k, with is 3M and 12MG,
the WHK-F with its RT Ballistic Mount,
the KFX-G with its 1Missile RT & LT,
the Missile Boat BJ-2,

all that use in Game Tech,
we really need more Variants,