1212 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Coralld, on 18 March 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Can we just all agree that of the existing Clan Mediums that the Huntsman is by far the better choice already. However, if we really must have a 40t Clan mech that the Pounced would be the better choice if for the only reason being that Its 40t, would probably be good, and doesn't have any stigma attached to it.

Fair enough.

dervishx5, on 17 March 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Again, they're not going to put the Coyotl in. That's like putting a ME-262 in a modern fighter game.

Bad analogy, the F-15 Eagle would be a better example, still a capable combat aircraft by today's standards, but not as advanced as the F-22....

[dervishx5]

Metus regem, on 18 March 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

Bad analogy, the F-15 Eagle would be a better example, still a capable combat aircraft by today's standards, but not as advanced as the F-22....

I forgot the F-15 was the first jet fighter.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 March 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

.....yet, being a slightly better Adder isn't what I would call good. Either way, any 40 tonner addition is going to need quirks to compete.

The Huntsman will be nice, but the HBK-IIC will outshine it except for maybe some ERML+Ballistics build (which aren't as strong these days) and possibly brawling (depends on whether it has Cheetah-esque missile mounts).

So a 5 ton heavier Adder (with probably less quirks) or a 10 ton heavier Cheetah without ECM (but extra true dubs!). I think I would take the Viper.. especially since wasn't it supposed to be the original 40 tonner of the initial Clan invasion anyway?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 March 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

I think I would take the Viper.. especially since wasn't it supposed to be the original 40 tonner of the initial Clan invasion anyway?

Yes, everyone knows they secretly want the Clan Firestarter that looks like a duck.

[dervishx5]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 March 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

Yes, everyone knows they secretly want the Clan Firestarter that looks like a duck.

*Clan Spider

[Metus regem]

dervishx5, on 18 March 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

I forgot the F-15 was the first jet fighter.

-sigh- you don't understand my point.... being the first jet fighter, has nothing to do with still be a capable combat aircraft by today's standards...

The Coyotl is still a highly effective mech when compared to anything in the 40t line up till very advanced weapons show up (read Post 3060). Even in the post 3060 era for Battle Tech, the Coyotl is still effective, just not as effective as it is before 3060.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 March 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

Yes, everyone knows they secretly want the Clan Firestarter that looks like a duck.

Lol it does look like a duck. I don't know, I guess in the end I don't really care I just want a 40 tonner.

[dervishx5]

Metus regem, on 18 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

-sigh- you don't understand my point.... being the first jet fighter, has nothing to do with still be a capable combat aircraft by today's standards...

The Coyotl is still a highly effective mech when compared to anything in the 40t line up till very advanced weapons show up (read Post 3060). Even in the post 3060 era for Battle Tech, the Coyotl is still effective, just not as effective as it is before 3060.

I don't care about a mech you read about on Sarna first rather than the sourcebook it came in. People advocating the Coyotl lack context, aren't true Battletech fans and thus are not qualified to be advocating what mech should be brought in next.

Edited by dervishx5, 18 March 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 March 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

So a 5 ton heavier Adder (with probably less quirks) or a 10 ton heavier Cheetah without ECM (but extra true dubs!). I think I would take the Viper.. especially since wasn't it supposed to be the original 40 tonner of the initial Clan invasion anyway?

Try 10-ton lighter Nova. 11 E hardpoints, faster than the Nova, plus 2 hardwired DHS, plus jump jets. Unlike the Adder, it has a hilarious number of hardpoints to play with. That can make all the difference. The NVA has problems, but none of them are offensive limitations. They're more scale related than anything.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 March 2016 - 08:45 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 March 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

Yes, everyone knows they secretly want the Clan Firestarter that looks like a duck.

Question is does.that make it a duckstarter or a fireduck? Kinda in favor of duckstarter

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 18 March 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Try 10-ton lighter Nova. 11 E hardpoints, faster than the Nova, plus 2 hardwired DHS, plus jump jets. Unlike the Adder, it has a hilarious number of hardpoints to play with. That can make all the difference. The NVA has problems, but none of them are offensive limitations. They're more scale related than anything.

Or a 40 ton lighter Gargoyle!!


What's its effective podspace again (with full armor)?

I'm guessing 14-15 tons?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 March 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Metus regem]

dervishx5, on 18 March 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't care about a mech you read about on Sarna first rather than the sourcebook it came in. People advocating the Coyotl lack context, aren't true Battletech fans and thus are not qualified to be advocating what mech should be brought in next.

Little short sighted are you?

I first read about the Coyotl in the Golden Century supplement, when I started to use them in TT, I found that they were better over all than the Dragonfly, well worth the loss of 1 hex of movement (as well as jump for the Alpha) for the extra amount of fire power they bring.

As for me being a 'true' fan of Battle Tech, I've been playing it regularly since the mid 90's, I maintain three forces:

1 Supernova trinary of Ghost Bears (1 star Elementals +1 light star+1 mixed medium and heavy star)
1 3025 Heavy Battle company (4 WHM-6R, 4 CN9-A, 4x LCT-1V)
1 Advanced Search and Rescue company (3x PXH-HK-M, 3x WSP-105, 6x STG-A5)

The LAM squadron is by far the hardest to run, but with the right mission, it is extremely effective.


All that being said, I am done arguing with you, if you are going to result to base insults and taunts because I disagree with you, on what is or is not a good solid 40t mech for the clans.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lucian Nostra, on 18 March 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

Question is does.that make it a duckstarter or a fireduck? Kinda in favor of duckstarter

Definitely duckstarter, my spirit mech.

[dervishx5]

Metus regem, on 18 March 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

Little short sighted are you?

I first read about the Coyotl in the Golden Century supplement, when I started to use them in TT, I found that they were better over all than the Dragonfly, well worth the loss of 1 hex of movement (as well as jump for the Alpha) for the extra amount of fire power they bring.

As for me being a 'true' fan of Battle Tech, I've been playing it regularly since the mid 90's, I maintain three forces:

1 Supernova trinary of Ghost Bears (1 star Elementals +1 light star+1 mixed medium and heavy star)
1 3025 Heavy Battle company (4 WHM-6R, 4 CN9-A, 4x LCT-1V)
1 Advanced Search and Rescue company (3x PXH-HK-M, 3x WSP-105, 6x STG-A5)

The LAM squadron is by far the hardest to run, but with the right mission, it is extremely effective.


All that being said, I am done arguing with you, if you are going to result to base insults and taunts because I disagree with you, on what is or is not a good solid 40t mech for the clans.

Good /= right for game.

Check your privilege.

[Gas Guzzler]

So on the Pouncer you could do like 6 cER MLs with ~20 DHS
2 ER PPCs with ~14-15 DHS
2 cLPLs with ~14-15 DHS
Probably some good SRM boating but at 40 tons you are a little slow to be running around brawling, no?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 March 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

dervishx5, on 18 March 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

I don't care about a mech you read about on Sarna first rather than the sourcebook it came in. People advocating the Coyotl lack context, aren't true Battletech fans and thus are not qualified to be advocating what mech should be brought in next.

So, people advocating for a superior mech which will actually be used in game are wrong, and people blindly clamoring for some terrible pile of rubbish which will see next to no use ingame, because they used it this one time playing tabletop games when they were 12 are right?

I disagree with your premise. The only reason i dont think PGI should create completely new designs is.. well people would rage if they weren't shaped like a stick man with HUGE HULKING ARMS and 10 laser ports in each shoulder. Least with existing designs people cant blame PGI for the shapes.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 March 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

So, people advocating for a superior mech which will actually be used in game are wrong, and people blindly clamoring for some terrible pile of rubbish which will see next to no use ingame, because they used it this one time playing tabletop games when they were 12 are right?

I disagree with your premise. The only reason i dont think PGI should create completely new designs is.. well people would rage if they weren't shaped like a stick man with HUGE HULKING ARMS and 10 laser ports in each shoulder. Least with existing designs people cant blame PGI for the shapes.

I actually don't think the Viper or the Pouncer would be rubbish though. I could see both having uses. The Viper can likely support 6 cSPLs very well (running cooler than an ACH) and can bring 4 lasers in the torsos with is nice for ER ML poking (aren't low like the ACH arms), and the Pouncer could actually bring solid firepower for a medium, with JJs and run a little bit cooler than an Adder.

The Coyotl is at that middle of the road Mist Lynx speed and it doesn't have an enormous amount of hardpoints. You are looking at a 2 cLPL mech essentially. Aesthetically speaking, it does look the best out of the three though..

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 March 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 March 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

Probably some good SRM boating but at 40 tons you are a little slow to be running around brawling, no?

Not necessarily, but considering it is a 40 ton mech (meaning 40 ton armor), probably.

Gas Guzzler, on 18 March 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

The Coyotl is at that middle of the road Mist Lynx speed and it doesn't have an enormous amount of hardpoints. You are looking at a 2 cLPL mech essentially.

Most Coyotl advocates are really hoping PGI gives it more hardpoints with a 3rd variant since it requires at least one custom variant, which knowing PGI it will be a 7 ballistic variant so that it is a lot like the SCat.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 March 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 March 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

Or a 40 ton lighter Gargoyle!!


What's its effective podspace again (with full armor)?

I'm guessing 14-15 tons?

14 after armor correction. You can pack 5 MPLas and 4+2=16 DHS, with JJ. Runs reasonably cool and hits for 40 damage. 10 ERSLas and 9+2=21 DHS. Run 4x SRM6 4 tons ammo and 2 ERMLas with 2+2=14 DHS and the Adder works as a supporting SRM boat as is so I'm not terribly concerned with that, though you could also choose to drop the extra dubs and the lasers to upgrade those to A-SRM6 instead. Maybe make those 4xASRM4 and 2 SPLas. I donno.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 18 March 2016 - 09:20 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 March 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

40 ton armor

Yeah, that is my issue with getting into an SRM brawl with it.