1212 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 March 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

Two sides of the coin. Asym builds only work on some mechs, and there is nothing wrong with symmetrical builds if you know how to armor roll. The total damage you can soak with a humanoid mech spreading damage across the entire mech is higher than you can imagine, and all it takes is one patient player with good aim to lop off the loaded side torso of an asymmetrical mech, and that target is a nonthreat from there on out. Asyms can poke from exactly one direction, and poke extremely well while shielding with a deadside, but because of that they are also extremely predictable in a firing position.

Meanwhile, I love seeing asym EBJs or TBRs. People who do that don't seem to "get" why the deadside technique is crap on them. Pssst. I can still hit your side torso, even if you try and twist away. :3

Well, every example you're giving there is a perfect example of a plane-body mech. Better hitboxes than humanoid mechs overall, but as you've noted, have a huge potential drawback on some builds if you're not smart enough to protect those side torsos - which is technically easier because those torsos are fully visible through a much smaller number of twist degrees than on humanoid mechs. Even in the plane-body mechs, you lose most of a ST in roughly 45 degrees of twist - closer to 90 for most humanoid mechs. I really don't favor asym builds, myself. It relies on a level of control that is rarely possible during most matches in order to mitigate risk. When you know risk cannot be truly mitigated, you build for that risk. That being said, throwing all your tech on one side of a mech which is completely obscured through most degrees of twist by the CT and opposing ST isn't a terrible idea in theory. In practice though, you're going to present a fairly easy target when you're not careful.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 March 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

Meanwhile, I love seeing asym EBJs or TBRs. People who do that don't seem to "get" why the deadside technique is crap on them. Pssst. I can still hit your side torso, even if you try and twist away. :3

I've made it a little personal rule not to use asymmetric builds when stacking weapons on one side ALSO makes that side bigger and easy to hit from all angles. Lol.

[Omaha]

I really like the Stooping Hawk @ 55 ton med, I think it would be a nice contender. <------- Plus it's all bird like ^.^

Edited by Omaha, 17 March 2016 - 06:44 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 March 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

I've made it a little personal rule not to use asymmetric builds when stacking weapons on one side ALSO makes that side bigger and easy to hit from all angles. Lol.

Same. This is one of those things the Marauder is forced into, though, and one reason why it is not as good as it could be. Except the 5D...which has no weapon hump unless you stick a PPC in the RT.

[dervishx5]

Again, they're not going to put the Coyotl in. That's like putting a ME-262 in a modern fighter game.

Also, the Battle Cobra is a real possibility for the 40 ton slot.

But it will be the Viper or Pouncer, and I'm willing to bet money on it.

Edited by dervishx5, 17 March 2016 - 07:05 PM.

[Omaha]

Well they could do a "remembrance" Package, and bring in those oldies.

Remember, it's us clan warriors that are OP, not the machines we pilot...

Edited by Omaha, 17 March 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[dervishx5]

Omaha, on 17 March 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

Well they could do a "remembrance" Package, and bring in those oldies.

It's about as likely as them putting in a Rim Worlds Republic mechpack. It's not impossible, but they'd have to spend so many resources creating models for mechs people barely recognize (and thus will pay less for) rather than those people know (and thus pay more for).

[Omaha]

Naw it's about bringing the lore to a new generation so BATTLETECH LIVES FOREVER!

Edited by Omaha, 17 March 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[CK16]

Clans did not really keep producing a mech or weapon though if there was a distinct replacement for it. Remember clans are kind of minimalistic specially in our military hardware.

The Innersphere freebirth surats have petty contracts that bind them to old out dated chassis for mechs a lot of the times. Thus can not just swap over to the next mech as easy.

If it is deemed extinct by our nature we would never use them or keep parts around, it is fat that would be cut from our lean process.

[Omaha]

There's alot of stuff I'm still reading about an finding out about, it's so freaking expansive. Truth be told I was really just a Jade Falcon Freak, due to the video games. I was still pretty young when the TT was in it's hay day. So I'm learning whats it all about even today.

[CK16]

If you are a Jade Falcon warrior, then why not promote the Blacklanner and Turkina. Two very distinct and iconic mechs for your clan? Some would even say they are your totem mechs.

[dervishx5]

Black Lanner is what the Stormcrow would be if the Stormcrow was bad.

Edited by dervishx5, 17 March 2016 - 07:29 PM.

[Omaha]

Because I'm artistic, so I will pick mechs based on looks lol Hence changing my vote to stooping hawk. It's looks pretty bad ***.

Part of the TT was role play right? So you could use mech not specifically made from your faction could you not? Not sure on official rules.

Edited by Omaha, 17 March 2016 - 07:32 PM.

[dervishx5]

Omaha, on 17 March 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Because I'm artistic, so I will pick mechs based on looks lol Hence changing my vote to stooping hawk. It's looks pretty bad ***.

RARE HOMEWORLD CLAN MECH. WOULD NOT BE SEEN BEFORE-

You know, I have a soft spot for the Blood Spirits, so I'd be okay with that. It's a pretty good mech.

[Widowmaker1981]

ScarecrowES, on 17 March 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

I don't understand the sudden contention that humanoid mechs actually have BETTER hitboxes than non-humanoid mechs. Mathematically this makes no sense. Humanoid mechs will have a larger surface area per volume than non-humanoid mechs, and present the largest possible frontal profile. By default, their hitboxes will be worse. Using the concept of arm position as an advantage in torso blocking while twisting is disingenuous, as the much larger frontal profile is presented for a much greater number of degrees during twist than in non-humanoid mechs, meaning the advantage in arm blocking is already countered by the abnormally long visibility of the torso during a twist maneuver. By the time the arms finally come into play, the torso has already rotated through most available twisting degrees - the arm position only being a possible advantage approaching 80+ degrees of twist.

Especially after the rescale is complete, it's just better to be in a more compact mech.

Walk round a corner in a Banshee, realise it was a mistake because three enemy mechs are looking at you. Twist 90° and reverse out of danger while they shoot your massive shield arm. Lose one arm, worst case 2 DHS gone.

Walk round a corner in a Warhawk, realise it was a mistake because three enemy mechs are looking at you. Due to non humanoid hitboxes it is impossible to prevent the enemies shooting your torso sections. Best case scenario you get out of that with a completely cored ST. Likely you will be half a mech.

In my opinion, the ONLY mech that benefits from egg shape hitboxes is the Stalker due to its INCREDIBLE front profile and incredibly narrow CT strip - and even then if its only a good thing because its tiny engine cap means it has no use for an XL anyway.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 March 2016 - 01:39 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 March 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

Walk round a corner in a Banshee, realise it was a mistake because three enemy mechs are looking at you. Twist 90° and reverse out of danger while they shoot your massive shield arm. Lose one arm, worst case 2 DHS gone.

Walk round a corner in a Warhawk, realise it was a mistake because three enemy mechs are looking at you. Due to non humanoid hitboxes it is impossible to prevent the enemies shooting your torso sections. Best case scenario you get out of that with a completely cored ST. Likely you will be half a mech.

In my opinion, the ONLY mech that benefits from egg shape hitboxes is the Stalker due to its INCREDIBLE front profile and incredibly narrow CT strip - and even then if its only a good thing because its tiny engine cap means it has no use for an XL anyway.

Yet another case for the Kingfisher over the Dire Turkey. Afterall, it is basically a slightly slower Clan Banshee.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

CK16, on 17 March 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

Clans did not really keep producing a mech or weapon though if there was a distinct replacement for it.

You mean like the Mist Lynx *cough*

[William Pryde]

CK16, on 17 March 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

If you are a Jade Falcon warrior, then why not promote the Blacklanner and Turkina. Two very distinct and iconic mechs for your clan? Some would even say they are your totem mechs.

If they bring these 'Mechs into the game, they will most likely be awful but I will pilot them nonetheless and be the best Turkina/Black Lanner pilot the Clans have ever seen! I would very much like the Fire Falcon or the Night Gyr, too. Both of those seem like they would be good options - Fire Falcon has a lot of high hardpoints and moves at a respectable 130kph, the Night Gyr has a lot of pod space.

[Coralld]

Can we just all agree that of the existing Clan Mediums that the Huntsman is by far the better choice already. However, if we really must have a 40t Clan mech that the Pounced would be the better choice if for the only reason being that Its 40t, would probably be good, and doesn't have any stigma attached to it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Coralld, on 18 March 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

would probably be good, and doesn't have any stigma attached to it.

.....yet, being a slightly better Adder isn't what I would call good. Either way, any 40 tonner addition is going to need quirks to compete.

The Huntsman will be nice, but the HBK-IIC will outshine it except for maybe some ERML+Ballistics build (which aren't as strong these days) and possibly brawling (depends on whether it has Cheetah-esque missile mounts).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 March 2016 - 08:31 AM.