1212 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Conjurer is a good mech but I can't understand the love for the MW4 version its ugly as sin.

It's simple. That's not a Conjurer, it is a new Battle Mech called the Hell hound.

Well that's how I look at it,only reason I can really come up with for the completely different look.

[pbiggz]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Conjurer is a good mech but I can't understand the love for the MW4 version its ugly as sin.

Never speak to me again.

[Archangel.84]

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

It also means that the only Clans listed as ever fielding the Mad Cat MkII, Nova Cat and Wolf-in-Exile, were not allied with the "Clans," who are noted specifically as never fielding it (both were abjured, and thus are enemies of the "Clans", and using mechs won through Trials does not count as fielding for the purposes of MWO). All factions listed as having fielded the MkII were, thus, Inner Sphere, including Nova Cat (for all the reasons above), and Wolf-in-exile (for reasons that should go without saying).

You're being way reductive/simplistic and trying to use pre-Refusal War/Tukayyid political reality to talk about the late 3050s/early '60s.

The Nova Cats - and Wolves in Exile - never stopped being Clan just because they were abjured and fought for the Inner Sphere against the other Clans. While they were under the... suzerainty, I suppose?... of the Draconis Combine and Federated Commonwealth/Lyran Alliance, they maintained their own governance and economy and technology base and toumans rather than being fully integrated. Their Khans were still a step above other regional governors.

After the Refusal War (and further, Operation Bulldog), it was no longer just "Clan vs. IS." By the time of the Mk. II you had Clans that were allied to the Inner Sphere but still Clan, so if the Mk.II makes it in game, it will be a Clan machine. The whole "Clans vs. IS only" was a pretty brief state of affairs in the grand scheme of things, and by the time of the Jihad and Wars of Reaving it had broken down entirely. (Unless of course you're going to suggest that post-WoR the only true Clans are the Star Adders, Coyotes, Cloud Cobras, and Stone Lions.) Even in MWO, it's not set up that way as Clans are free to attack each other, and IS factions are free to attack each other.

What you're talking about, a "Clan that is no longer Clan" doesn't really describe anything until the Rasalhague Dominion and Raven Alliance which is waaaaay down the timeline and likely never for this game. Or maybe Wolf's Dragoons after they formally renounced the Clans (but still maintained some elements thereof).

Edited by Archangel.84, 09 March 2016 - 08:21 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Wow that is a giant wall of text still full of wrong.. like how you typed that much and basically solidified that your wrong in your own words is astounding. You also seem to have missed all the dates I posted.

Whats your point about the Nova Cats being abjured in 3060? By than the machine had been in production for 2 years.. kinda lost why that was important? The Great Refusal was April 23rd 3060 at which point Clan Nova Cat sided with the IS against the Clans it was after the Great Refusal was fought and lost that Clans voted to Annihlated/Abjure Clan Nova Cat (vote was held april 27th)

Wave 1 of Operation Bulldog was mid 3059, after production was already started (again in 3058 on the homeworlds and early 3059 on Irece). You can only be Abtakha after your captured as it skips the bondsmen process so the Nova Cats that where being 'captured' became Abtakha as the DCMS and SLDF rolled up their planets and joined the fight against the Jaguars.

Also I don't know where your getting the idea that the Nova Cats had lost these trials pre-Operation bulldog as all the weirdo trials clan Nova Cat created where done as Combine and SLDF forces landed on their worlds so your just flat out wrong there that somehow the DCMS was taking Nova Cat worlds and units before Bulldog.

Also I will point out that the Nova Cats governed their area of the DCMS in the name of the Combine but they had their own economy and government style and Combine citizens living there where free to leave (which sadly many did.. prejudice), so your sorta right each Nova Cat produced after 3060 was techincally DCMS property but they still belonged in the Nova Cat units not DCMS regular house units.

So again.. Machine designed and built on Barcella in the clan homeworlds, later built on the planet Irece in early '59, Clan Nova Cats started being rolled into the SLDF and DCMS mid '59 onward and Clan Nova Cat abjured mid 3060.

Please man just stop.. your wrong it's a Clan Machine designed by the Nova Cats used by the Nova Cats before they stopped being a Clan.

Sources used: Dragon Roars for Invasion Dates and a few smatterings about the trials, Twilight of the Clans for Refusal Dates, The Clans Warriors of Kerensky for Abjuration Dates and more trial examples, Field Manual Comstar for some background and Era Reports 3062 for some of the same. TRO 3060 for the basics on the mech

Yeah no. Like I said, we may have to make confirmations against the TRO, but the timeline laid out in Sarna is pretty specific. You jump around all over the place, where I lay things out in order. Coordinate starting 3053, become Combine in 3058, Bulldog in 3059, abjuration 3060.

You've not mentioned Nova Cat rolling Nova Cat mechs against Smoke Jaguar on behalf of the Combine and the Star League during Bulldog. You make it sound like they only jumped in during the Refusal, which is not true. The TROs make this quite clear. Nova Cat was already Combine before Bulldog was even finalized. Their hatred toward CSJ is what made the sphere target that faction specifically. Pretty hard for CSJ to capture examples of the NC after they've already been wiped off the face of the galaxy, and the TRO calls this one out.

So the sourcebooks specifically contradict you here. Like... all over the place. You get the major points right, but you miss all the other ones in between. Like all of 3058, which is probably the most important. And 3059 and Nova Cat's participation in Bulldog with NC mechs on behalf of the Star League.

[pbiggz]

Archangel.84, on 09 March 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

You're being way reductive/simplistic and trying to use pre-Refusal War/Tukayyid political reality to talk about the late 3050s/early '60s.

The Nova Cats - and Wolves in Exile - never stopped being Clan just because they were abjured and fought for the Inner Sphere against the other Clans. While they were under the... suzerainty, I suppose?... of the Draconis Combine and Federated Commonwealth/Lyran Alliance, they maintained their own governance and economy and technology base and toumans rather than being fully integrated. Their Khans were still a step above other regional governors.

After the Refusal War (and further, Operation Bulldog), it was no longer just "Clan vs. IS." By the time of the Mk. II you had Clans that were allied to the Inner Sphere but still Clan, so if the Mk.II makes it in game, it will be a Clan machine. The whole "Clans vs. IS only" was a pretty brief state of affairs in the grand scheme of things, and by the time of the Jihad and Wars of Reaving it had broken down entirely. (Unless of course you're going to suggest that post-WoR the only true Clans are the Star Adders, Coyotes, Cloud Cobras, and Stone Lions.) Even in MWO, it's not set up that way as Clans are free to attack each other, and IS factions are free to attack each other.

What you're talking about, a "Clan that is no longer Clan" doesn't really describe anything until the Rasalhague Dominion and Raven Alliance which is waaaaay down the timeline and likely never for this game. Or maybe Wolf's Dragoons after they formally renounced the Clans (but still maintained some elements thereof).

Also to be noted is that the rasalhague dominion, though technically an IS faction, still manufactured clan mechs with clan tech.

[Imperius]

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

Yeah no. Like I said, we may have to make confirmations against the TRO, but the timeline laid out in Sarna is pretty specific. You jump around all over the place, where I lay things out in order. Coordinate starting 3053, become Combine in 3058, Bulldog in 3059, abjuration 3060.

You've not mentioned Nova Cat rolling Nova Cat mechs against Smoke Jaguar on behalf of the Combine and the Star League during Bulldog. You make it sound like they only jumped in during the Refusal, which is not true. The TROs make this quite clear. Nova Cat was already Combine before Bulldog was even finalized. Their hatred toward CSJ is what made the sphere target that faction specifically. Pretty hard for CSJ to capture examples of the NC after they've already been wiped off the face of the galaxy, and the TRO calls this one out.

So the sourcebooks specifically contradict you here. Like... all over the place. You get the major points right, but you miss all the other ones in between. Like all of 3058, which is probably the most important. And 3059 and Nova Cat's participation in Bulldog with NC mechs on behalf of the Star League.

My unit picks the faction I'm with not I, and dude we've colored things for you bro to help... You're sadly beyond help. Good luck, and Godspeed!

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

Also to be noted is that the rasalhague dominion, though technically an IS faction, still manufactured clan mechs with clan tech.

'Cause Ghost Bear did thing right, they gave the citizens standing in the Clan, they rebuilt what got knocked down, brought medical Tech, industry and education to the masses... Hell they integrated the old standing army into their military....

[LastKhan]

Metus regem, on 09 March 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

'Cause Ghost Bear did thing right, they gave the citizens standing in the Clan, they rebuilt what got knocked down, brought medical Tech, industry and education to the masses... Hell they integrated the old standing army into their military....

The many things i liked about ghost bear is their incorporation in the IS.

Edited by LastKhan, 09 March 2016 - 08:35 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Archangel.84, on 09 March 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

You're being way reductive/simplistic and trying to use pre-Refusal War/Tukayyid political reality to talk about the late 3050s/early '60s.

The Nova Cats - and Wolves in Exile - never stopped being Clan just because they were abjured and fought for the Inner Sphere against the other Clans. While they were under the... suzerainty, I suppose?... of the Draconis Combine and Federated Commonwealth/Lyran Alliance, they maintained their own governance and economy and technology base and toumans rather than being fully integrated. Their Khans were still a step above other regional governors.

After the Refusal War (and further, Operation Bulldog), it was no longer just "Clan vs. IS." By the time of the Mk. II you had Clans that were allied to the Inner Sphere but still Clan, so if the Mk.II makes it in game, it will be a Clan machine. The whole "Clans vs. IS only" was a pretty brief state of affairs in the grand scheme of things, and by the time of the Jihad and Wars of Reaving it had broken down entirely. Even in MWO, it's not set up that way as Clans are free to attack each other, and IS factions are free to attack each other.

What you're talking about, a "Clan that is no longer Clan" doesn't really describe anything until the Rasalhague Dominion and Raven Alliance which is waaaaay down the timeline and likely never for this game. Or maybe Wolf's Dragoons after they formally renounced the Clans (but still maintained some elements thereof).

Lost in all the descriptions I've had to make is the point of all this... faction play in MWO is broken down in to IS vs Clan. 3050-3057, IS only used IS tech, and Clan only used Clan tech. All Clans were united against the Inner Sphere. It's very simple, the 2 faction, 2 tech, 2 mech system works for MWO.

After 3058, things get very complicated. From 3058 to 3060, the Clans decline to near irrelevance. Some of the major Clans move to the Inner Sphere and fight against their former allies. Ghost Bear says "**** all!" and just does it's own thing. By 3067, there is no clear line between 2 opposing sides, with IS on one side with IS tech and Clans on the other with Clan tech.

But MWO operates under the simple system. Clan mechs and clan tech belong to Clans. If you're not a Clan, then you're Inner Sphere. And all the mechs released up until 3057 will follow this same basic concept. After 3057, MWO's systems break down. One of the most anticipated mechs waiting to be released is a mech used only by factions that for the purposes of MWO would be Inner Sphere, but that mech uses outdated 3050's Clan tech.

How do we rectify this in MWO? If you release the MkII based on what tech it uses, it goes Clan, and a bunch of factions that never used it get to use it, while all the factions that DID use it miss out. Is that fair? If you release it as Inner Sphere, you're keeping tight to the lore, and giving the mech to the factions that used it. But giving IS factions access to clan tech is not in keeping with the current line drawn separating factions and tech for MWO.

Same for the Nova Cat. The Totem mech for the exiled Nova Cats, proudly used to eject its former allies from its new home in the Inner Sphere, and to destroy its biggest rival for good. This is a mech that marched along side the Star League, and we'd be giving it to the very factions in which it was meant to inspire fear?

At least MW4, where these mechs were available to play last, had the common sense to acknowledge the state of the galaxy when it chose its mechs.

My opinion is, mechs like the Nova Cat and Mad Cat MkII are too problematic to release until PGI has some idea of how we're going to deal with the discrepancy between tech base and faction alignment. It's best if they either stick to mechs no later than 3057, or with mechs with pure faction/tech lines.

[Metus regem]

LastKhan, on 09 March 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

The many things i liked about ghost bear is their incorporation with the IS.

When I first got into BT, I was all about Clan Wolf, but as I started reading about the Clans, the more I found myself reading about Clan Ghost Bear, the more I read about Ghost Bear, the more I liked Ghost Bear.

I like how in Clan Ghost Bear, everyone, from the lowest member of the Labour Cast to the Khan gets to have a vote on big actions for the Clan, like moving to the IS.

[ScarecrowES]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

My unit picks the faction I'm with not I, and dude we've colored things for you bro to help... You're sadly beyond help. Good luck, and Godspeed!

Can't argue against the sourcebooks dude. Don't be mad at me, be mad at FASA. Look, it's rough finding out that something you're fighting so hard for is based on a lie. But that's life some times. You can still use the MkII in Quick Play regardless. If it ever gets released, which it might not if PGI balked at the challenge of rectifying lore and their systems.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 09 March 2016 - 08:44 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Metus regem, on 09 March 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

When I first got into BT, I was all about Clan Wolf, but as I started reading about the Clans, the more I found myself reading about Clan Ghost Bear, the more I read about Ghost Bear, the more I liked Ghost Bear.

I like how in Clan Ghost Bear, everyone, from the lowest member of the Labour Cast to the Khan gets to have a vote on big actions for the Clan, like moving to the IS.

Ghost Bear is the second of my two favorites. My favorite is the one you see next to my name, which I feel has a better arch. My buddy though LOVES Ghost Bear. He talks about the MW2 expansion almost as if the series stopped there and MWO is just a confused dream.

[Archangel.84]

The Clan is family. (Also having a popular Rasalhague Prince as your saKhan publicly pushing for integration doesn't hurt one bit.)

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

3050-3057, IS only used IS tech, and Clan only used Clan tech. All Clans were united against the Inner Sphere.

Except no, because of Clan Wolf (in Exile) - the original Clan Wolf. Vlad Ward's Clan Wolf was a new Clan with the old name. ETA: But you know this, I think.

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

How do we rectify this in MWO? If you release the MkII based on what tech it uses, it goes Clan, and a bunch of factions that never used it get to use it, while all the factions that DID use it miss out. Is that fair? If you release it as Inner Sphere, you're keeping tight to the lore, and giving the mech to the factions that used it. But giving IS factions access to clan tech is not in keeping with the current line drawn separating factions and tech for MWO.

It's best if they either stick to mechs no later than 3057, or with mechs with pure faction/tech lines.

The truth is we're already well past this point in MWO. Not with the tech bases and the "over-factions" per se, but when you have Maulers running Steiner/Davion colors when they're rare and Combine-exclusive, or Wolfhounds running Kurita colors when they were explicitly designed to fight Draconis Panthers, or lostech Black Knights available to anyone outside of ComStar, or Orion IICs available to any Clans but Wolf, you've already pissed all over faction specificity and are only left with tech base as a divider.

Now, do you really want to propose limiting what Mechs you can pilot (or acquire!) based on what faction you're tagged as, in keeping with lore? Even in CW which is where this would matter? I'm all for adding more factions - Nova Cat, Steel Viper, Diamond Shark, St. Ives, Taurian Concordat, Magistracy of Canopus, bring them on - but there's little enough point to it right now,

Edited by Archangel.84, 09 March 2016 - 08:58 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

Yeah no. Like I said, we may have to make confirmations against the TRO, but the timeline laid out in Sarna is pretty specific. You jump around all over the place, where I lay things out in order. Coordinate starting 3053, become Combine in 3058, Bulldog in 3059, abjuration 3060.

You've not mentioned Nova Cat rolling Nova Cat mechs against Smoke Jaguar on behalf of the Combine and the Star League during Bulldog. You make it sound like they only jumped in during the Refusal, which is not tru Their he. The TROs make this quite clear. Nova Cat was already Combine before Bulldog was even finalized.atred toward CSJ is what made the sphere target that faction specifically. Pretty hard for CSJ to capture examples of the NC after they've already been wiped off the face of the galaxy, and the TRO calls this one out.

So the sourcebooks specifically contradict you here. Like... all over the place. You get the major points right, but you miss all the other ones in between. Like all of 3058, which is probably the most important. And 3059 and Nova Cat's participation in Bulldog with NC mechs on behalf of the Star League.

like I said as they took Nova Cat worlds those units joined the SLDF and fought against the Jaguars it was a 4 wave attack not like it just all happened at once fully hitting the depth of the Jaguars territory simultaneously.

Lucian Nostra, on 09 March 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

Wave 1 of Operation Bulldog was mid 3059, after production was already started (again in 3058 on the homeworlds and early 3059 on Irece). You can only be Abtakha after your captured as it skips the bondsmen process so the Nova Cats that where being 'captured' became Abtakha as the DCMS and SLDF rolled up their planets and joined the fight against the Jaguars.

The source Material is clear as I laid out in my prior post YOUR the ONLY source saying the Nova Cats joined the Combine in 58 prior to Bulldog. YOUR the ONLY source saying anything beyond talks started that early.

There IS no source to your claims I've laid out all the material I've drawn mine from and dude your wrong, just accept it, it happens. I was wrong earlier about the Kingfisher having only 1 slot in the torso open you don't see me trying to blindly defend that stance, I checked it when I got home I was wrong.

The sourcebooks lay out the planets hit and in those little sidebar quips you can find information about what trials the Cats tossed out. Like The Clans stating Avon, Caripare, Chupadero (all wave 1) and Mualang (wave 2) being standard battles but Sawyer (wave 1) being an arcade game battle, Bjarred (wave 2) being a coin toss, Irece (wave 1) being a drinking contest, and Itabaiana (wave 2) being a soccer game.

There where no Nova Cat units striking Jaguars till later in the invasion, and actually by source material it wasn't till wave 4 when the SLDF Nova Cat Lancers struck Kabah which was somewhere in August - September of 59 a unit which was made abtakha during wave 1 on the planet of Jeanette at the onset of Operation Bulldog by the Second Dieron Rangers that we see a Nova Cat unit redeployed.

But lets get to the root of all this your trying in some way to say that since the Nova Cat was used by the Nova Cats and the Mad Cat Mk II was used primarly by IS factions that that somehow makes them IS mechs not Clan mechs.

Well lets see where can we find instances of products sold to entirely different markets than the country that produces them? Oh the Ford Euro Car, a Ford produced vehicle sold in Europe and not in the US.. is that somehow suddenly a European car? Nope it's an American car on the European market.

Are the T-72M and the T-90E Russian tanks suddenly Arab and Chinese tanks since they are export only models? Nope those are Russian tanks sold to foreign markets

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 09 March 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Archangel.84, on 09 March 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

The Clan is family. (Also having a popular Rasalhague Prince as your saKhan publicly pushing for integration doesn't hurt one bit.)



Except no, because of Clan Wolf (in Exile) - the original Clan Wolf. Vlad Ward's Clan Wolf was a new Clan with the old name. ETA: But you know this, I think.




The truth is we're already well past this point in MWO. Not with the tech bases and the "over-factions" per se, but when you have Maulers running Steiner/Davion colors when they're rare and Combine-exclusive, or Wolfhounds running Kurita colors when they were explicitly designed to fight Draconis Panthers, or lostech Black Knights available to anyone outside of ComStar, or Orion IICs available to any Clans but Wolf, you've already pissed all over faction specificity and are only left with tech base as a divider.

Now, do you really want to propose limiting what Mechs you can pilot (or acquire!) based on what faction you're tagged as, in keeping with lore? Even in CW which is where this would matter? I'm all for adding more factions - Nova Cat, Steel Viper, Diamond Shark, St. Ives, Taurian Concordat, Magistracy of Canopus, bring them on - but there's little enough point to it right now,

Refusal War - 3057. Clan Wolf-in-Exile makes official home in Arc-Royal 3058. That's why I say that up to 3057 is fair game. Once Wolf-in-Exile arrives in the Inner Sphere, they immediately start building brand new mech models at the Arc-Royal mechworks. And the Kell Hounds start building all new mechs based on their new Wolf knowledge. And then all the brand new retrofits and toys. So 3058 is pretty much the beginning of the end for tech exclusivity.

And no, I think going all the way down to minor faction exclusivity for individual mech models is far too complex for MWO. I mean, it might be kinda cool... almost... if IS houses could only use mechs they owned, or if Jade Falcon could only use Summoners (screw you guys and your really crappy lopsided mech). But it would be horrible in MWO. Up til 3057, the current system, where ever minor faction gets to use any mech in the major faction toybox works fine.

But in 3058 and later? I dunno. Since tech exclusivity basically went away when Wolf went IS, maybe post 3057-mechs and tech shouldn't be faction exclusive either. It might be the easiest way to make this work. And honestly, we could stop hearing about Clan Vs IS balancing in CW.

[Lucian Nostra]

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

Lost in all the descriptions I've had to make is the point of all this... faction play in MWO is broken down in to IS vs Clan. 3050-3057, IS only used IS tech, and Clan only used Clan tech. All Clans were united against the Inner Sphere. It's very simple, the 2 faction, 2 tech, 2 mech system works for MWO.

After 3058, things get very complicated. From 3058 to 3060, the Clans decline to near irrelevance. Some of the major Clans move to the Inner Sphere and fight against their former allies. Ghost Bear says "**** all!" and just does it's own thing. By 3067, there is no clear line between 2 opposing sides, with IS on one side with IS tech and Clans on the other with Clan tech.

But MWO operates under the simple system. Clan mechs and clan tech belong to Clans. If you're not a Clan, then you're Inner Sphere. And all the mechs released up until 3057 will follow this same basic concept. After 3057, MWO's systems break down. One of the most anticipated mechs waiting to be released is a mech used only by factions that for the purposes of MWO would be Inner Sphere, but that mech uses outdated 3050's Clan tech.

How do we rectify this in MWO? If you release the MkII based on what tech it uses, it goes Clan, and a bunch of factions that never used it get to use it, while all the factions that DID use it miss out. Is that fair? If you release it as Inner Sphere, you're keeping tight to the lore, and giving the mech to the factions that used it. But giving IS factions access to clan tech is not in keeping with the current line drawn separating factions and tech for MWO.

Same for the Nova Cat. The Totem mech for the exiled Nova Cats, proudly used to eject its former allies from its new home in the Inner Sphere, and to destroy its biggest rival for good. This is a mech that marched along side the Star League, and we'd be giving it to the very factions in which it was meant to inspire fear?

At least MW4, where these mechs were available to play last, had the common sense to acknowledge the state of the galaxy when it chose its mechs.

My opinion is, mechs like the Nova Cat and Mad Cat MkII are too problematic to release until PGI has some idea of how we're going to deal with the discrepancy between tech base and faction alignment. It's best if they either stick to mechs no later than 3057, or with mechs with pure faction/tech lines.

Your arugement falls flat on its face when you realize the Wolfs Dragoons had Clan tech all along and started to produce it slightly before the clan invasion hit giving Dire Wolves to Prince Davion and a few others.

Clan wolf in exile also forms in 57 (I think or a bit after) when the refusal war is fought and becomes a Clan... in exile..

So does that mean that we now need to give every single clan mech to the IS because of Clan Wolf in exile and the dragoons?

Also how do you rectify clan Solahma units using IS mechs? Some with Clan tech? Or the caches of old IS mechs back on the Clan homeworlds that got cracked open?

Oh wait.. you don't you use them based on what tech basis they are.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 09 March 2016 - 09:25 PM.

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

Refusal War - 3057. Clan Wolf-in-Exile makes official home in Arc-Royal 3058. That's why I say that up to 3057 is fair game. Once Wolf-in-Exile arrives in the Inner Sphere, they immediately start building brand new mech models at the Arc-Royal mechworks. And the Kell Hounds start building all new mechs based on their new Wolf knowledge. And then all the brand new retrofits and toys. So 3058 is pretty much the beginning of the end for tech exclusivity.

And no, I think going all the way down to minor faction exclusivity for individual mech models is far too complex for MWO. I mean, it might be kinda cool... almost... if IS houses could only use mechs they owned, or if Jade Falcon could only use Summoners (screw you guys and your really crappy lopsided mech). But it would be horrible in MWO. Up til 3057, the current system, where ever minor faction gets to use any mech in the major faction toybox works fine.

But in 3058 and later? I dunno. Since tech exclusivity basically went away when Wolf went IS, maybe post 3057-mechs and tech shouldn't be faction exclusive either. It might be the easiest way to make this work. And honestly, we could stop hearing about Clan Vs IS balancing in CW.

You do understand that even IF the clans in the sphere were considered IS factions and not clans (and they are clans), their mechs are CLAN mechs using CLAN tech.

CLAN tech is a tech base. It has a separate set of stats and mechanics and does not rely on the faction making it. The Nova Cat, The Ursus, the MK II, and anything else manufactured in the occupation zones or by clans operating near or in the inner sphere are STILL CLAN MECHS no matter what side of CW you think they should be on. Under the current rules of MWO those mechs using that tech are used by the clans, not the IS, and are available not to the IS, but to the clans.

We're here trying to talk about what the next few clan mechs could be and you're just here trying to start a debate about the definition of a clan mech.

Edited by pbiggz, 09 March 2016 - 09:25 PM.

[Imperius]

pbiggz, on 09 March 2016 - 09:23 PM, said:

You do understand that even IF the clans in the sphere were considered IS factions and not clans (and they are clans), their mechs are CLAN mechs using CLAN tech.

CLAN tech is a tech base. It has a separate set of stats and mechanics and does not rely on the faction making it. The Nova Cat, The Ursus, the MK II, and anything else manufactured in the occupation zones or by clans operating near or in the inner sphere are STILL CLAN MECHS no matter what side of CW you think they should be on. Under the current rules of MWO those mechs using that tech are used by the clans, not the IS, and are available not to the IS, but to the clans.

We're here trying to talk about what the next few clan mechs could be and you're just here trying to start a debate about the definition of a clan mech.

Please let's get back on topic, I think enough people told him and laid out facts that he just can't accept.

[Lucian Nostra]

Imperius, on 09 March 2016 - 09:28 PM, said:

Please let's get back on topic, I think enough people told him and laid out facts that he just can't accept.

Damnit Imperius.. Im suppose to despise you.. GRRRR

[Sounder Till I Die]

ScarecrowES, on 09 March 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

Refusal War - 3057. Clan Wolf-in-Exile makes official home in Arc-Royal 3058. That's why I say that up to 3057 is fair game. Once Wolf-in-Exile arrives in the Inner Sphere, they immediately start building brand new mech models at the Arc-Royal mechworks. And the Kell Hounds start building all new mechs based on their new Wolf knowledge. And then all the brand new retrofits and toys. So 3058 is pretty much the beginning of the end for tech exclusivity.

And no, I think going all the way down to minor faction exclusivity for individual mech models is far too complex for MWO. I mean, it might be kinda cool... almost... if IS houses could only use mechs they owned, or if Jade Falcon could only use Summoners (screw you guys and your really crappy lopsided mech). But it would be horrible in MWO. Up til 3057, the current system, where ever minor faction gets to use any mech in the major faction toybox works fine.

But in 3058 and later? I dunno. Since tech exclusivity basically went away when Wolf went IS, maybe post 3057-mechs and tech shouldn't be faction exclusive either. It might be the easiest way to make this work. And honestly, we could stop hearing about Clan Vs IS balancing in CW.

This completely ignores the fact that when the Springfield kids go over to Shelbyville, there was another Milhouse, who was cool! I mean mind...blown. But at the end of the day I think its important to remember that everything is coming up Milhouse.