199 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Not sarcastically - This weekend I ran basic'ed only mechs, 3 mediums and a Black Knight. ~40 tons under.

All but 1 match 1100+ damage, top damage 1748 (and the Black Knight wasn't useful for more than 500 in any match). All but 2 matches 4+ kills.

3 Mechs with xl engines.

End of the day, playing as a team is what makes the difference the tech gap isn't that wide if you can regularly pull of acceptable games with under leveled mechs and run very much over-tonned.

Next week is medium only drops, and after that I'm going to run at minimum tonnage because the game won't let me drop in 4 Commandos.

[gloowa]

meteorol, on 28 February 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

Yeah. It's outrageous.

Just yesterday i was bringing my beloved Kingcrab to CW. In regular queue, this thing curbstomps everything. It uses a pair of lrms to weaken targets while i'm getting into range (which doesn't take too long thanks to the big xl engine). Once in range, i'm torturing enemy mechs with a thunderstorm of critseeking damage (2 lbx 10, 4 mgs, 2 spl). It's murder on legs.

Against clan mechs in CW? Zero chance. Timberwolfs just gaze at me with their godlike visage and set my world on fire. My whole existence dissipates into a neverending misery of nothing but agony and pain. I haven't killed a single one of those gods in flesh and metal.

PGI only loves clan players. If a top of the line, min-maxed build like my King Crab can't beat a single clan mech in CW, balance is obviously out of whack. PGI simply doesn't want IS players to win or have fun. It is objectively impossible to even win a single match against clans, ever. Skill difference has zero impact on this. It's solely due to OP clan mechs.



I'm out.

The sad part is, i meet LRM + 6 machinegun King Crabs with XL engines at least once per 2 days in CW. And then i'm like this:

Edited by gloowa, 29 February 2016 - 04:12 AM.

[Zolaz]

I am with the Original Poster on this one. I brought my laser vomit Black Knight to Vitroc Forge for CW. Normally the Black Knight just rolls over the competition in the solo queue. I just blast away and all kinds of mechs get blown away, like Spiders, Urbanmechs, Ravens and the like. However, when I tried to fight 2 lances of Direwolves I got blown away in seconds. I think they were cheating or something. All I heard was a bunch of autocannons or something blazing away.

[Der Hesse]

So 22 posts total and all but one of them mocking the OP. If that isn´t a toxic community....
The OP is exaggerating but he is not as far from truth as you guys obviously are.
Balance was good before the last patch but is off again now and most of you know it. That´s why you react to those posts like you did here again.

Answer Boglyft Kerenskys question!

If you also did read the threads of clan pilots whining you know that guy who said too that IS mediums are better then the Stormcrow and wanted to prove it through duels against me. He failed and then later relied on pure lies. And that was before the last buff to clans and nerf to IS.

Get off your ivory tower and put you feet on the ground!

[gloowa]

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

So 22 posts total and all but one of them mocking the OP. If that isn´t a toxic community....
The OP is exaggerating but he is not as far from truth as you guys obviously are.

No actually, it's exact opposite. 21 post are close to truth - people bring HORRIBLE builds into CW. I mean really, REALLY bad, dreadful, builds. I was not even joking about the 6 machinegun + LRM crabs.

All i see from pugs in CW is either LRMs or ERLLs. End then there is big cry and whine when the super pr0 sniper mechs get rekd by brawlers.

Yes, IS is at a disadvandage, but after changes from last 3 patches the balance is closer then it's ever been, imo.

[sycocys]

I'm just saying - If at my middle of the road skill level can put up reasonable numbers with 3 mediums and a heavy with a 5-6 man group and a bunch of pugs, the mech balance gap probably isn't really so terrible.

Most of the issue players still run into is dropping against opponents and teams that are far more skilled than they are, which much of that originates in the PSR system not being spread enough for them to actually be able to get an honest assessment of their own skill level.

[Kin3ticX]

Guys, I am having trouble ever winning in CW or getting good damage and I dont understand why

My XL + LRM + Laser + 6 Machinegun King Crab usually wrecks everything but in CW my teammates wont hold locks for me because they are too busy actually doing important stuff. I usually hide as long as it takes while trying to dispense my LRM ammo bins and then move in with my SIX machineguns and exploit all the holes in their armor!

I am considering using my free name change to add Kerensky to the end of my name. I read all the novels and my theory is that other players will simply clam up when they see that heavyweight bloodname before them.

Any thoughts?

[KinLuu]

IMHO balance currently is very close. IS is better at specializing, Clan is better at generalizing. In Unit vs. Unit games, this gives the IS side a small edge, while in PUG vs. PUG games, this gives the Clan side a significant edge.

Personally I prefer IS currently, more viable mech choices.

[WANTED]

Slight edge Clan now. When I go up against premades, the top units are clan again and they have take advantage of the longer laser range and clan targeting computers on certain maps like Boreal. Not complaining as they completely wiped us out 1st wave and we didn't even sniff the gate again after that as they sat and sniped us dropping in. Either way, top comp units will dominate your team with even mechs if your team is not on their level or mostly pugs. I've experienced enough CW to know by now. Having said that, my pug teams I led on defense against clans and organized drops against clans have been more wins than I usually see in CW when other team is primarily clan pugs. That's why I don't see the mechs as much as a huge advantage as the team and skill.

[Der Hesse]

gloowa, on 29 February 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

No actually, it's exact opposite. 21 post are close to truth - people bring HORRIBLE builds into CW. I mean really, REALLY bad, dreadful, builds. I was not even joking about the 6 machinegun + LRM crabs.

All i see from pugs in CW is either LRMs or ERLLs. End then there is big cry and whine when the super pr0 sniper mechs get rekd by brawlers.

Yes, IS is at a disadvandage, but after changes from last 3 patches the balance is closer then it's ever been, imo.

The OP didn´t say anything about his builds or if he was dropping solo or not. So most of the accusations against him are made up of presumptions. Still so many people felt the necessity to attack him with those presumptions.

Im with you that balance is better then it was at other times. But the last patch was a bad joke by PGI. At the moment i wouldn´t call the game balanced. It somehow was before that patch.

sycocys, on 29 February 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

I'm just saying - If at my middle of the road skill level can put up reasonable numbers with 3 mediums and a heavy with a 5-6 man group and a bunch of pugs, the mech balance gap probably isn't really so terrible.

Most of the issue players still run into is dropping against opponents and teams that are far more skilled than they are, which much of that originates in the PSR system not being spread enough for them to actually be able to get an honest assessment of their own skill level.

Many people can put up reasonable numbers, especially when running in a group, even if it´s a small one. That doesn´t tell much about balance.
But if you run in full IS pug groups and lose 95% of your matches against full Clan pug groups (sometimes hard to tell if you are though) even though you score 10-20 kills yourself per match then you get the feeling that balance is off. And when you know the game you can give a pretty precise educated guess what it is.

Kin3ticX, on 29 February 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

Guys, I am having trouble ever winning in CW or getting good damage and I dont understand why

My XL + LRM + Laser + 6 Machinegun King Crab usually wrecks everything but in CW my teammates wont hold locks for me because they are too busy actually doing important stuff. I usually hide as long as it takes while trying to dispense my LRM ammo bins and then move in with my SIX machineguns and exploit all the holes in their armor!

I am considering using my free name change to add Kerensky to the end of my name. I read all the novels and my theory is that other players will simply clam up when they see that heavyweight bloodname before them.

Any thoughts?

MS as constructive as ever. ^^

[gloowa]

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

The OP didn´t say anything about his builds or if he was dropping solo or not. So most of the accusations against him are made up of presumptions. Still so many people felt the necessity to attack him with those presumptions.

What you call presumptions, i call experience. I drop CW only for 6 months now, and 90% of people who go "IS/Clan balance is a joke yadda yadda" are those with terribad builds that net them grand total of 300 damage over 4 mechs. Yes, he could actually be in the 10% who are good and still think balance is terribad, but then his OP is just ranting so i'll put about as much thought into my response.

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

Im with you that balance is better then it was at other times. But the last patch was a bad joke by PGI. At the moment i wouldn´t call the game balanced. It somehow was before that patch.

And what exactly was this bad joke? Flamer changes? 7 ton TC giving "massive" 10% range boost? Finally reducing blackjack armor so that it "only" has armor and structure of a 60 tonner instead of 70 tonner?

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

Many people can put up reasonable numbers, especially when running in a group, even if it´s a small one. That doesn´t tell much about balance.
But if you run in full IS pug groups and lose 95% of your matches against full Clan pug groups (sometimes hard to tell if you are though) even though you score 10-20 kills yourself per match then you get the feeling that balance is off. And when you know the game you can give a pretty precise educated guess what it is.

Yes, and the fact that vast majority of new players use IS mechs only transitioning to clan tech after playing a bit and meking decent money has nothing to do with pug vs pug matches. No sir, nothing at all.

Many people can put up reasonable argument, but if they don't look at all aspects of teh situation, that doesn't tell much about balance.

And again - yes IS is at a slight disadvantage. Combine that with the nature of the game where the snowball effect is very strong (if sides are equal, loosing mech first is a big deal that will lead to 12-6 loss for you) and you arrive at the high clan pug victory ratio vs is pug.

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

MS as constructive as ever. ^^

About the same as OP.

[FullMetalJackass]

balance was actually as close as it ever has been until this last pass. Shame PGI over does it every time. Just remove the negative quirks on clans and it would have been fine. Same thing w/the Guass cool down increase.

[DarklightCA]

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

The OP didn´t say anything about his builds or if he was dropping solo or not. So most of the accusations against him are made up of presumptions. Still so many people felt the necessity to attack him with those presumptions.

Im with you that balance is better then it was at other times. But the last patch was a bad joke by PGI. At the moment i wouldn´t call the game balanced. It somehow was before that patch.

Many people can put up reasonable numbers, especially when running in a group, even if it´s a small one. That doesn´t tell much about balance.

But if you run in full IS pug groups and lose 95% of your matches against full Clan pug groups (sometimes hard to tell if you are though) even though you score 10-20 kills yourself per match then you get the feeling that balance is off. And when you know the game you can give a pretty precise educated guess what it is.

I like how you start off your post talking about making assumptions than you proceed by pulling some 95% statistic out of your ***. First of all if you are solo dropping and gambling on pug teams than you are likely to lose in the first place. Secondly the last patch was as close to balanced as the game has ever came but it wasn't balanced.

Clan mechs which really should have the range advantage were losing pretty much all there ranged trades. All they did was remove majority of the negative quirks from some of the Clan mechs so they would be on par with the other clan mechs, reduce IS energy range quirks slightly and reduce some of the quirks from some IS mechs that were frankly way overly quirked.

Anybody that relied on the superior range and overly quirked variants to win their games I imagine would be having a harder time now but I'd suggest trying all the IS mechs which are still very much good and optimizing their builds before you cry out in-balance.

Edited by DarklightCA, 29 February 2016 - 08:33 AM.

[Der Hesse]

gloowa, on 29 February 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

What you call presumptions, i call experience. I drop CW only for 6 months now, and 90% of people who go "IS/Clan balance is a joke yadda yadda" are those with terribad builds that net them grand total of 300 damage over 4 mechs. Yes, he could actually be in the 10% who are good and still think balance is terribad, but then his OP is just ranting so i'll put about as much thought into my response.


And what exactly was this bad joke? Flamer changes? 7 ton TC giving "massive" 10% range boost? Finally reducing blackjack armor so that it "only" has armor and structure of a 60 tonner instead of 70 tonner?



Yes, and the fact that vast majority of new players use IS mechs only transitioning to clan tech after playing a bit and meking decent money has nothing to do with pug vs pug matches. No sir, nothing at all.

Many people can put up reasonable argument, but if they don't look at all aspects of teh situation, that doesn't tell much about balance.

And again - yes IS is at a slight disadvantage. Combine that with the nature of the game where the snowball effect is very strong (if sides are equal, loosing mech first is a big deal that will lead to 12-6 loss for you) and you arrive at the high clan pug victory ratio vs is pug.


About the same as OP.

You want to know the joke?
How about nerfing every IS energy range quirk down to 10%?
How about removing all Clan negative quirks, even from the chassis that already were the best in game?
You are only calling out the changes that doesn´t impact balance as much and don´t mention the huge ones.

[Der Hesse]

DarklightCA, on 29 February 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

I like how you start off your post talking about making assumptions than you proceed by pulling some 95% statistic out of your ***. First of all if you are solo dropping and gambling on pug teams than you are likely to lose in the first place. Secondly the last patch was as close to balanced as the game has ever came but it wasn't balanced.

Clan mechs which really should have the range advantage were losing pretty much all there ranged trades. All they did was remove majority of the negative quirks from some of the Clan mechs so they would be on par with the other clan mechs, reduce IS energy range quirks slightly and reduce some of the quirks from some IS mechs that were frankly way overly quirked.

Anybody that relied on the superior range and overly quirked variants to win their games I imagine would be having a harder time now but I'd suggest trying all the IS mechs which are still very much good and optimizing their builds before you cry out in-balance.

If you drive IS mechs you absolutely need huge range quirks because nearly every Clan counterpart has more range. Even the wirks didn´t change much, but made some builds at least a bit more even.

How the hell shall IS mechs and their weaponry compare to the Clan LPL for example? That thing is crazy

And why do you think clan mechs should have the range advantage? Why should they have ANY advantage?
I would say in a match with even numbers all should be equal, so stop with such stupid arguments.

[Sandpit]

ehr meh gerd!

The robots are takin our joooooobs

[xWiredx]

In an effort to be constructive here...

I did propose a system where CW players could 'salvage' at random from the other teams dead mechs in order to 'unlock' those mechs for their own use in CW. It didn't get much attention. It was probably too complex for PGI to plan development for or even consider.

In other news...

OP, do you not face TBRs in regular matches? How do you deal with them there? It's the same in CW - teamwork, using cover well, making good trades, etc. They are no more godly in in one type of match than the other.

[sycocys]

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you drive IS mechs you absolutely need huge range quirks because nearly every Clan counterpart has more range. Even the wirks didn´t change much, but made some builds at least a bit more even.

How the hell shall IS mechs and their weaponry compare to the Clan LPL for example? That thing is crazy

Why do you need range quirks when most of your mechs have structure, armor + a far larger heat cap?

Competing is simple, you push on em same as it was before all the messing around as well as through it. Clan mechs can't sustain anywhere near the output that IS heavy mechs can or even many IS medium mechs.

[DarklightCA]

Der Hesse, on 29 February 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you drive IS mechs you absolutely need huge range quirks because nearly every Clan counterpart has more range. Even the wirks didn´t change much, but made some builds at least a bit more even.

How the hell shall IS mechs and their weaponry compare to the Clan LPL for example? That thing is crazy

And why do you think clan mechs should have the range advantage? Why should they have ANY advantage?
I would say in a match with even numbers all should be equal, so stop with such stupid arguments.

You serious? Clan lasers are hotter and weapons like LPL's can only be shot 2 at a time compared to 3 at a time for IS. IS also have really good cooldown and some heat quirks which make them fire faster and cooler than there clan counter-parts. You really can't have all that and range to go with it, that's what was broken in the first place.

The main thing PGI did was give the range advantage to Clan's as it should be. Before IS had cooler weapons, higher DPS and the range to out trade Clan's. Now Clan's have the better range for the most part to use their more hot and higher duration weapons with.

That makes total and complete sense to me. The people who are getting wrecked are likely in poorly optimized builds or sticking with old overquirked meta which is trying to range fight Clan mechs. Stick to the strengths the IS have and fight within your optimal range and not Clan mechs optimal range which being most maps are closer range shouldn't be that hard to do.

Edited by DarklightCA, 29 February 2016 - 10:20 AM.

[Der Hesse]

sycocys, on 29 February 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

Why do you need range quirks when most of your mechs have structure, armor + a far larger heat cap?

Competing is simple, you push on em same as it was before all the messing around as well as through it. Clan mechs can't sustain anywhere near the output that IS heavy mechs can or even many IS medium mechs.

Indeed most pulse laser boats in IS have higher DPS then their clan counterparts. But in many situations all structure buffs of the world don´t help you to survive the try to close in on the enemy that has way higher range.

And if you compare pug matches you´ll see that most matches are poke matches, if you like it or not. And there clans always win because of higher range and higher alphas. DPS doesn´t help you when the enemy cools down in cover.