199 replies to this topic

[fbj]

Darrin Call, on 29 February 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

Do any of you complainers even look at your mechs specs? I read about King Crabs with 6 machine guns. Did you know that the Arrow, a med mech has 6 machine guns? What are you doing with the other 50 tons? You are wondering why a 75 ton Black Knight with lasers that take a sec to recycle and can overheat is losing to 100 ton assault Dire with 4 auto cannons that can put out 20 -40 more damage while you are waiting for your guns to recycle? That you cannot make an IS mech with the same specs as Clan, you have to make a good IS mecha using the quirks. Do you know what rolling off damage means? That brawling will beat range if they can close. My unit would rather play IS because it is so much easier to roll up damage. But since there are more IS players, and so many make such poor designs it is easier to get games as Clan. I hope we stay IS a while longer cause I'm loving my Black Knight so much I bought another one of the same design. See you on the Battlefield!

Can't fix stupid.

[MischiefSC]

Chef Kerensky, on 29 February 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

I wouldn't call balance 'good.' Both sides have very viable builds that can do their jobs very well right now. Both still suffer from being primarily composed of absolute garbage. Both still suffer from a lack of public information on what makes a good mech a good mech.

Protips to struggling players: never, ever go smaller than engine size 250, stack lasers or weapons that synergize together and optimize damage from 300-700 meters (ER larges are for cowards who aren't presenting a target and never get anything useful done,) and stack double heat sinks. Form a line and focus targets. Any second a teammate is getting shot and 12 mechs aren't shooting back is bad news

If PGI comes out and allows direct in game education on how to build good mechs then they have to admit to the lore-****** that stock mechs and original TT balance for this game is absolute and total ****. Which they won't do.

There's a ton of material out there for people, it's just hard to find.

Have you seen this? People should have to read that and pass a test on it before they're allowed to play in group queue or CW.

How about this? It's a ******* google doc presentation on everything a new player needs to know for CW.
Here's a set of 19 instructional videos that are absolutely brilliant.

Church of Skill, an opportunity to sit down in TS and talk with top tier comp players and drop matches with them specifically to help people learn to play better, is that even going? Do we know? How do you even find it and when?

A lot of players have put a genuinely stupid amount of work into trying to help people get good at the game but it's like trying to empty the ocean with a tea cup. Too much bad information, too many people way too invested in trying to make bad information true by dint of getting everyone to make the same poor choices. Follow that up with PGI genuinely not actually KNOWING what GIT GUD in their game really looks like or why it's important.

The biggest obstacle to people getting good at MW:O is their fellow players and the inability to easily and consistently find good direction among the sea of bad ideas.

You do what you're supposed to, get on faction TS to drop with a group and have a bunch of them explain how the best way to fit over 2K LRM rounds onto a Stalker is or debate the relative merits of LRM 60 EBJ vs LRM 80 EBJ. If you're new how do you recognize that those people are the food you should be eating to get space-rich, not sources of wisdom to learn from.

We need a Church of Skill sort of thing that's going 24x7. Teamspeak to go to that's just there for training for people do work on their GIT GUD. Something you can get everyone to go to from time to time, brush up on their skillz, do some 1v1 and 8v8 and 12v12 and CW practice. We need the equivalent of a lobby system that PGI is never going to give us.

Someone do that. I'm too white, to rich and too entitled, it sounds like a lot of work. Someone else needs to make that happen.

[Count Zero 74]

But I can make LRMs work !!!!

[feeWAIVER]

Go Clan or Go Home.

[XM15]

I get about 1 win to every 10 loses in CW. Seems like to me IS is getting more love from PGI.

[Chef Kerensky]

XM15, on 29 February 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

I get about 1 win to every 10 loses in CW. Seems like to me IS is getting more love from PGI.

Use clan large pulse lasers and er mediums on the stormcrow and madcat. Stop staring at alpha strikes. There, I just fixed your winrate.

[sycocys]

Chef Kerensky, on 29 February 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

Use clan large pulse lasers and er mediums on the stormcrow and madcat. Stop staring at alpha strikes. There, I just fixed your winrate.

Well should help his kdr anyhow. Dropping pug and refusing teamwork is more likely his W/L problem.

[Windscape]

clans are supposed to be superior. I for one enjoy a good challenge.

[Kin3ticX]

Space Trump 3050, Build a space wall to keep out the Clans! Make Jade Falcon pay, they took our jerbs!

[fbj]

Space Khan Trump 3052! Bringing the Clans to Terra!

[MischiefSC]

XM15, on 29 February 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

I get about 1 win to every 10 loses in CW. Seems like to me IS is getting more love from PGI.

Things that kill Clans -

Don't hang back and snipe/LRM. Think of both armor and firepower like a pool your team shares. When someone pulls his armor out of the team pool he's forcing them to effectively play 11 v 12. Add to that several other teammates doing the same thing and jockeying to be in the back and what you're doing is feeding your team 4 v 12 or so into the other team.

3xTBR and 1xACH or 4x EBJ/HBR deck. Run a 2LPL 3 or 4 CERML one, run 2xUAC10 and 3 CERML on another and whatever you like on the 3rd. I like 4xSRM6A and 4xSPLs but to each their own.

Clan teams have to play aggressive. You're all supposed to have decks that are fast; 4xEBJ/HBR or TBR-heavy decks which should give you a consistent fast speed. Play mobile and play aggressive. If you're not a competitive team calling targets then you're not going to be as good at trades (peek-and-shoot) stuff. Play to your speed and high alpha.

Also don't drop into a match with 11 other skittles. You're better off spending a time shopping pug drops for one with a 5man or better. 11 other skittles are never going to help you learn how to get better and drive wins.

[meteorol]

Darrin Call, on 29 February 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

Do any of you complainers even look at your mechs specs? I read about King Crabs with 6 machine guns. Did you know that the Arrow, a med mech has 6 machine guns? What are you doing with the other 50 tons? You are wondering why a 75 ton Black Knight with lasers that take a sec to recycle and can overheat is losing to 100 ton assault Dire with 4 auto cannons that can put out 20 -40 more damage while you are waiting for your guns to recycle? That you cannot make an IS mech with the same specs as Clan, you have to make a good IS mecha using the quirks. Do you know what rolling off damage means? That brawling will beat range if they can close. My unit would rather play IS because it is so much easier to roll up damage. But since there are more IS players, and so many make such poor designs it is easier to get games as Clan. I hope we stay IS a while longer cause I'm loving my Black Knight so much I bought another one of the same design. See you on the Battlefield!

I'm sorry, but if you don't put MGs on a XL King Crab you are doing it. I don't want to sound harsh, but please l2p before spreading such misinformation. And please don't confuse people here with this whole made up "rolling damage" stuff. The only thing real IS players roll is a dice.

[Der Hesse]

DarklightCA, on 29 February 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

"Way" higher range? It's not that huge of a difference. Only really noticeable with medium lasers. Also Clan mechs don't have that big of a advantage in poking. You are correct they can use their higher alphas and get back into cover but trading at IS optimal ranges there is not much of a difference.

IS DPS mechs can use their much lower duration to poke out, do their full damage really quickly and get back into cover faster. Clan mechs have to expose, stayed exposed for longer to get their full burn out making it pretty easy to focus them down as they poke out. Not to mention the IS have quite a few mechs that have a lot of high mounts and really good energy quirks. Stalker and Battlemaster being prime examples. I'd really love to see a Clan mech out trade them in good cover and at their optimal ranges.

IS LPL: Range 365
C LPL: Range 600 (+ the possibility to use a targeting computer with up to 10% range bonus)

Not that huge of a difference?

Yes, trading at IS optimal ranges is no big difference. I would even say IS will have a small advantage there. But try to get a trade at IS optimal ranges. Doesn´t happen often, especially in pugland.

For your mech examples regarding hardpoints: I don´t even use Stalkers or Battlemasters anymore. I used to do that a lot, but lately they just can´t withstand the 4-5 clan builds that are used nearly exclusively. Mostly because they are just to slow to get them into IS optimal ranges alive.
And better hardpoint positioning is also not true. Just look at the now unnerfed Timberwolf A (which i see now 24-36 times in some matches) or the Hellbringer. IS may have more mechs with good hardpoints but it only needs 1-2 to build a dropdeck.

I for my part rely nearly purely on AC5/UAC5 now because i need that range to counter the Clan laser range advantage. But we all know how difficult it is to use those weapons on high ranges in comparison to lasers. And no, the pinpoint argument doesn´t count. With AC5/UAC5 you have constand facetime if you want to use your DPS, just like with Clan UACs and Lasers.

[Widowmaker1981]

Der Hesse, on 01 March 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

IS LPL: Range 365
C LPL: Range 600 (+ the possibility to use a targeting computer with up to 10% range bonus)

Not that huge of a difference?

Yes, trading at IS optimal ranges is no big difference. I would even say IS will have a small advantage there. But try to get a trade at IS optimal ranges. Doesn´t happen often, especially in pugland.

For your mech examples regarding hardpoints: I don´t even use Stalkers or Battlemasters anymore. I used to do that a lot, but lately they just can´t withstand the 4-5 clan builds that are used nearly exclusively. Mostly because they are just to slow to get them into IS optimal ranges alive.
And better hardpoint positioning is also not true. Just look at the now unnerfed Timberwolf A (which i see now 24-36 times in some matches) or the Hellbringer. IS may have more mechs with good hardpoints but it only needs 1-2 to build a dropdeck.

I for my part rely nearly purely on AC5/UAC5 now because i need that range to counter the Clan laser range advantage. But we all know how difficult it is to use those weapons on high ranges in comparison to lasers. And no, the pinpoint argument doesn´t count. With AC5/UAC5 you have constand facetime if you want to use your DPS, just like with Clan UACs and Lasers.

IS LPL = 1.57 dmg per heat, 0.67s duration (+ quirks!)
C-LPL = 1.3 dmg per heat, 1.12s duration

Within its optimal range, the IS LPL craps all over the C-LPL from a gigantic height. Getting within 450 range is EASY on most maps. I use mechs with IS LPLs almost exclusively in CW, and have no problem doing 2-3k dmg every single game. FYI i normally drop in 2-4 mans for CW, not big groups.

If you want to outsnipe clans, just bring a BJ-3 with 2xERPPCs in your deck. 1.5s beam clan ERLLs have zero chance of trading with that and its 972 meter optimal range.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 01 March 2016 - 02:31 AM.

[Koshirou]

Widowmaker1981, on 01 March 2016 - 02:30 AM, said:

Getting within 450 range is EASY on most maps.

Which is fine, but not the optimum range for the IS LPL. It is, however, the optimum range for the IS LL... which is a more apt comparison and one which looks far, far worse for the IS weapons.

[H I A S]

Der Hesse, on 01 March 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

IS LPL: Range 365
C LPL: Range 600 (+ the possibility to use a targeting computer with up to 10% range bonus)

Not that huge of a difference?

Do you know W?
Btw 7 tons for an TC lol

Quote

, trading at IS optimal ranges is no big difference. I would even say IS will have a small advantage there. But try to get a trade at IS optimal ranges.

WWWWWWWWWWW!!!! 11

Quote

better hardpoint positioning is also not true. Just look at the now unnerfed Timberwolf A (which i see now 24-36 times in some matches) or the Hellbringer. IS may have more mechs with good hardpoints but it only needs 1-2 to build a dropdeck.

-HBR where is your Cockpit?

Quote

I for my part rely nearly purely on AC5/UAC5 now because i need that range to counter the Clan laser range advantage. But we all know how difficult it is to use those weapons on high ranges in comparison to lasers. And no, the pinpoint argument doesn´t count. With AC5/UAC5 you have constand facetime if you want to use your DPS, just like with Clan UACs and Lasers.

Most engagements ends in the 400 m or less range.
You can gut to that range faster if you use W.

[Widowmaker1981]

Koshirou, on 01 March 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

Which is fine, but not the optimum range for the IS LPL. It is, however, the optimum range for the IS LL... which is a more apt comparison and one which looks far, far worse for the IS weapons.

10% range quirk is 438m for IS LPL.

438m range weapons work FINE at 450m.

[zudukai]

ride the cheater & get on my level

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b256534f358914e

[Koshirou]

Widowmaker1981, on 01 March 2016 - 02:49 AM, said:

10% range quirk is 438m for IS LPL.

Hm, no? 365*1.1=401.5
438 would be correct if you also factored in a range module. But that is of course a completely dishonest comparison, since modules can also be used by Clan Mechs.

And of course, without incorporating the newly buffed TCs, the comparison is false to begin with. Comparing Mechs which mount, say, 4 LPLs each, the lower weight of the Clan weapons could be used to afford a MkIV TC, which would boost the range by 7%, so we are looking (modules, quirks and TCs) at the following values:
IS LPL 438m - Clan LPL 702m.

Finally, there is this really, really annoying tendency to just assume that every single IS Mech has an energy range quirk. FYI: Many of them don't.

[Widowmaker1981]

Koshirou, on 01 March 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

Hm, no? 365*1.1=401.5
438 would be correct if you also factored in a range module. But that is of course a completely dishonest comparison, since modules can also be used by Clan Mechs.

And of course, without incorporating the newly buffed TCs, the comparison is false to begin with. Comparing Mechs which mount, say, 4 LPLs each, the lower weight of the Clan weapons could be used to afford a MkIV TC, which would boost the range by 7%, so we are looking (modules, quirks and TCs) at the following values:
IS LPL 438m - Clan LPL 702m.

Finally, there is this really, really annoying tendency to just assume that every single IS Mech has an energy range quirk. FYI: Many of them don't.

Yes, obviously im including the range module because... well, you would. Doesn't change the fact its easy to get into IS LPL range. I would say that C-LPLs have a 660m range tbfh. Its also a GREAT DEAL less dishonest than the people claiming clan weapons get 10% more range for a TC, without taking into account that it costs SEVEN TONS AND SEVEN SLOTS.

TC cost tonnage, they are good now. For projectile weapons. NOT for lasers, because 6 tons and 6 slots is not worth paying to get 5% range (MK1 gives 5%).

You cannot say 'oh 4 clan LPL is 4 ton lighter, MKIV TC! because they are also considerably hotter, even AFTER spending those extra four tons on heatsinks.

I dont have any problem finding mechs with range quirks. I dont give a rats arse if they dont ALL have them, because you only drive one at a time. Just like you dont care that the Mist Lynx is a steaming pile of junk, because no one drives them anyway.

Try to understand that range is not the be all and end all. Longer range is useless once the enemy is in range, at that point its all about heat efficiency and duration, where IS win hands down. Getting into range is normally easy, because maps are not big flat open plains, they have hills and cliffs and buildings and rocks.