48 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

...can dish surprisingly decent/good amount of damage per match. It takes longer to kill a Mech compared to builds utilizing bigger ACs though, and the damage is more spread out. On the other hand, the smaller projectiles are much faster (same 2 km/s speed as the Gauss') and they can reach further (810 m optimal range).

I'm playing with this build to see how it would be like if the Kraken arrives with its super array of Autocannons. I'd most likely reduce the number of cUAC/2 to 8 or 7 from 10 to put more ammo and DHS.

Kraken:

• 8x cUAC/2 (15t ammo - 2250 points of potential damage)
  
• Endo, XL300 (Whale speed), 15x DHS

Probably too hot but we'll see. Let's hope!

[sycocys]

IIRC ultra 2's have lower dps than standard ac2s.

Think my dakka whale uses 3 5's, a 10, and a 20. It's just silly to watch mechs turn a corner into that.

[Hit the Deck]

sycocys, on 03 March 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

IIRC ultra 2's have lower dps than standard ac2s.

Think my dakka whale uses 3 5's, a 10, and a 20. It's just silly to watch mechs turn a corner into that.

They have actually the same DPS.

One can calculate the expected value of UAC/2 DPS with double tapping (jam mechanism) and see if it's lower or higher than no double tapping.

[Lugh]

Anytime I see a x AC2 anything, and I am fresh I think ooo look free kill.

The more you know.

[Hit the Deck]

Lugh, on 03 March 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Anytime I see a x AC2 anything, and I am fresh I think ooo look free kill.

The more you know.

The more I know what you think? Ok.....

[sycocys]

Hit the Deck, on 03 March 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

They have actually the same DPS.

One can calculate the expected value of UAC/2 DPS with double tapping (jam mechanism) and see if it's lower or higher than no double tapping.

Don't the ultras use the fire decay thing still where there's still a chance for them to jam even if you don't double tap because it takes x amount of time for them to reset to first shot.

Not that it really matters a whole lot with a .76 cd, you'd need to jam half your weapons to really see any loss of value when you are firing that quickly.

[Lugh]

Hit the Deck, on 03 March 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

The more I know what you think? Ok.....

If you want to think that way sure, but the 6 AC2 builds cannot out DPS any of the other more common AC builds. Heck they can't even out DPS the HBK IIC(0) with dual c-uac10s

So you are using 100 tons to do less DPS than my 50 tons? And you honestly think it's a good idea?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lugh, on 03 March 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

If you want to think that way sure, but the 6 AC2 builds cannot out DPS any of the other more common AC builds. Heck they can't even out DPS the HBK IIC(0) with dual c-uac10s

4 UAC2s actually out DPS 2 UAC10s iirc, they just require more face time to do it.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 March 2016 - 08:23 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

4 UAC2s actually out DPS 2 UAC10s iirc, they just require more face time to do it.

Face time is bad.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mister Blastman, on 03 March 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

Face time is bad.

Yes, I was just pointing out that 2 CUAC10s out DPSing a 6 UAC2 mech is wrong. I would much rather take 3 UAC10s over 6 UAC2 due to that fact, but that wasn't the point.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 March 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Lugh, on 03 March 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

If you want to think that way sure, but the 6 AC2 builds cannot out DPS any of the other more common AC builds. Heck they can't even out DPS the HBK IIC(0) with dual c-uac10s

So you are using 100 tons to do less DPS than my 50 tons? And you honestly think it's a good idea?

What I think about my little experiment is written on the OP. Did you read it?

[Mole]

While we are on the topic of AC/2s I used to consider them garbage weapons and groaned every time I saw a 'mech on my team using them. Then I mastered the Victor. 1 Gauss Rifle was terrible. 2 AC/5s was doable but mediocre. Then I got to the last variant that has three ballistics and I realized that 3 AC/2s actually brought more DPS to the fight than 2 AC/5s due to their rate of fire. Loaded that thing up with 3 AC/2s and gave it a try. It works pretty damn great, actually, and has become my favorite of the Victors. I have nearly a 2.0 KDR in that particular Victor whereas the other variants of the chassis have poor KDRs. I will never underestimate the power of grouped AC/2s again. I really won't.

[Mead]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

4 UAC2s actually out DPS 2 UAC10s iirc, they just require more face time to do it.

That doesn't make sense. If the 2s have higher dps they would necessarily take less facetime to deal the same damage as the 10s.

What am I missing here?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mead, on 03 March 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

That doesn't make sense. If the 2s have higher dps they would necessarily take less facetime to deal the same damage as the 10s.

Wat.

No, DPS is just that, average damage per second. Alpha oriented weapons tend to have lower DPS, but which weapons do you use to poke, Gauss, or AC2s? DPS has no indication of required face-time, the damage per shot however does.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 03 March 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mead, on 03 March 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

That doesn't make sense. If the 2s have higher dps they would necessarily take less facetime to deal the same damage as the 10s.

What am I missing here?

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Wat.

No, DPS is just that, average damage per second. Alpha oriented weapons tend to have lower DPS, but which weapons do you use to poke, Gauss, or AC2s? DPS has no indication of required face-time, the damage per shot however does.

The initial burst DPS of the 2 UAC 10s is higher, but then you have to wait for cooldown, while the UAC2s keep on trucking. Its kind of like the difference between Dakka Dires using UAC10s and UAC5s and the Mauler, which gets close to overall DPS there, but the initial burst of 70-80 damage over ~1 second or so of the Dire is unmatched.

[Mead]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Wat.

No, DPS is just that, average damage per second. Alpha oriented weapons tend to have lower DPS, but which weapons do you use to poke, Gauss, or AC2s?

Oh ok, I see what you think is happening.

[Lugh]

Hit the Deck, on 03 March 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

What I think about my little experiment is written on the OP. Did you read it?

Straight from Smurphy's AC/2 2.00 0.80 0.72 720 1,440 1 6.0 2,000 75 2.78 2.50 0.46 1.11 0.038
10.00
C-ULTRA AC/10 10.00 3.00 2.50 540 1,080 4 10.0 950 60 4.00 3.33 0.40 1.20 0.040 10.00
While you are mostly correct it stating that you'd have the higher on paper dps. 2.78 x 8 = 22.24

The double tapping potential for the two uac 10s is similiar 4x2 x2 or 16. So your dps best case is only 6.24 better on the ac2s you are running hotter, and need longer face time. And by hotter I mean at .9 heat per shot you've got your wad shot in 4? maybe 5 ? seconds.

But whatever makes you happy.

Edited by Lugh, 03 March 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[sycocys]

The only thing I'd like to add is that despite the facetime, 6+ ac2s is just fun to use.

Especially in slow mechs where your team is going to be in the battle before you could engage with better weapons, or on maps were everyone wants to turtle down. Just waddle around and plink away with your endless amount of ammo.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lugh, on 03 March 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

And by hotter I mean at .9 heat per shot

Where are you getting .9 more heat per shot?
8 * 0.8 = 6.4
2 * 3 = 6

Also, you forget cUAC2s have the same double tap potential as the UAC10s, so you may want to consider that in your calculations, since that actually adds 22.24 to the already existing 6.24 advantage, though both of those numbers on smurfy aren't accounting for double tap or jam capabilities since the DPS numbers are the exact same (which I have trouble believing).

[Lugh]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 03 March 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Yes, I was just pointing out that 2 CUAC10s out DPSing a 6 UAC2 mech is wrong. I would much rather take 3 UAC10s over 6 UAC2 due to that fact, but that wasn't the point.

not exactly the straight up damage of 6 UAC2 is 16.68 they don't ever benefit from double tap as near as I can tell.

the straight up non double of the two 10s is 2x4x2. which is 16. So they are very close. My experience has been that any c-uac is better than ac2 or cuac2.

There's a little bit too much pray in their spray. As can be seen with all the missing they do when you fight them.