119 replies to this topic

[Graugger]

That Atlas shouldn't have survived so yes, LRMs need buffed obviously.

[MechWarrior414712]

I love T1, my yesterdays experience;

-Game 1, in a Hunch 2C, 5 of my team down even before I get to the carnage, shoot people for 10 seconds and die, still end up as the #1 with 2 kills and 400 damage

-Game 2, Direwolf, enemy team dies before I even get to the killing fields, do a little bit over 100 damage, which was on their last mech standing

Doesn't this kinda prove that a single player has no impact in this game? God I love this games matchmaker.

PS. Did not watch.

[Wolfways]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

Technically, Polar Highland is full of concealment, not cover.

The difference, whilst seemingly minor, actually IS the difference between life and death.
http://www.offthegri...vs-concealment/

But I find gamers get the idea confused just as often as the difference between viable and optimal.

I just call everything cover because there isn't anything you can shoot through...except the foliage (or little trees) I suppose.

[SQW]

Wintersdark, on 03 March 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

This is true. NARC, particularly on PH, is a death sentence. It's VERY difficult to survive being NARC'd if you not near buildings, at long range, or one of the better rocky outcroppings. On the other hand, on most maps, effective LRM use means that NARC isn't very useful (you're close, and probably have LOS most of the time anyways)... But on PH, NARC is lethal.

I leveled up tier 4 to 3 mostly on a narc raven. The only map that's narc unfriendly is Bog, HPG and River and even then, narcing half of the other team is worth it just for the radar. On PH, a narc raven is almost an auto win if there are 2-3 LRM boats but my win ratio on Mining, Canyon and Forest are almost as good.

There are tricks to being a good NARCer. I had a huge losing streak when I first started using the 3L but eventually you pick up on the subtleties.

[Clownwarlord]

HACKATHON!!! Lies to be tier 1 ... you must hack.

First minute or so ... wow, what a rant. New strategy ... let the enemy run out of lrms.

Edited by clownwarlord, 03 March 2016 - 10:25 PM.

[627]

If I saw it right, one of the maddogs carried the narc, so a selfnarcer that played it right. That was a prime example how you have to play a missile boat and a good proof that LRMs can be more than a joke in this game.

And for rushing the boats on polar, that only works if they stand side by side. But they didn't as we could see very well from saders angle, that was hilarious to watch by the way
So you can rush one boat, in the open but have to eat all the missiles from the other 4.

And by the way, that would have worked on alpine and caustic, too. Even on frozen. The key is the Narc, plain and simple. Without that they had lost the game on polar, no doubt.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

627, on 04 March 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

If I saw it right, one of the maddogs carried the narc, so a selfnarcer that played it right. That was a prime example how you have to play a missile boat and a good proof that LRMs can be more than a joke in this game.

And for rushing the boats on polar, that only works if they stand side by side. But they didn't as we could see very well from saders angle, that was hilarious to watch by the way
So you can rush one boat, in the open but have to eat all the missiles from the other 4.

And by the way, that would have worked on alpine and caustic, too. Even on frozen. The key is the Narc, plain and simple. Without that they had lost the game on polar, no doubt.

Even without NARC/TAG, LRM's can be effective if you have even a lance of mechs functioning as dedicated LRM boats. Hell, even 2 LRM boats can be a real pain in your ***.

The thing is, you have to co-ordinate, work together and think of your positioning very carefully. Your LRM boats must know what they are doing, and be willing to expose themselves on occasion, especially if using ALRM's. That little bit of extra accuracy from the Artemis system can mean a lot.

But the thing is, LRM's are "Support" weapons, It's why they're such a devisive weapons system, some feel they're totally OP, other's feel they are horribly under powered. The truth is, just like with any weapons system, they are OP in the right situations, and UP in the wrong ones. The trick is utilizing the team and figuring out the proper times to utilize them.

Some of my best games are in mechs with LRM's... my post 1000 damage games have all been in LRM boats. or my Timberwolf which is a slightly downgraded prime variant.

The other Key to LRM boats... Backup weapons, do not go ammo exclusive, make sure you have a minimum of 2 mlas as backup. Without backup weapons, you have no way to protect yourself should you become exposed or encounter light scouts set on ruining your day.

So, i'm glad to see LRM play in Tier1, With so many Tier1's screaming how it's non-viable. I'm glad to see matches where it works. Of course, at Tier1 play, people tend to ignore things such as AMS... Regardless fun vid.

[Lily from animove]

Sader325, on 03 March 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Simple really, because on pretty much any other map that team would have lost. Horribly.

this, but hey you still cna rely on the map vote gambling and then have at leats all your lrm team (at leats 50%) voting for that one map xD

But next time just feakign hide soemwhere and let the lrm guys come in. Because hey no oen forces you to go into their niche.

627, on 04 March 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

If I saw it right, one of the maddogs carried the narc, so a selfnarcer that played it right. That was a prime example how you have to play a missile boat and a good proof that LRMs can be more than a joke in this game.

And for rushing the boats on polar, that only works if they stand side by side. But they didn't as we could see very well from saders angle, that was hilarious to watch by the way
So you can rush one boat, in the open but have to eat all the missiles from the other 4.

And by the way, that would have worked on alpine and caustic, too. Even on frozen. The key is the Narc, plain and simple. Without that they had lost the game on polar, no doubt.

yes but not many maps support narc as a working system, any map that easily lets you break the arc of fire for missiles makes narc worthless. Tahts why on caustic and this map it can work very well, but is borderless pointless on MANY other maps.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 March 2016 - 03:34 AM.

[Almond Brown]

LOL! This place is way funnier than that other place.. LOL!

P.S. Well played by the Noobs though right, as only Noobs use LRM's right?
The T1 LEET folks preach that as if gospel ffs. Thus it has to be true right? LOL!

[Sjorpha]

So you lost a match because you couldn't counter what the other team did, and are now using excuses for why you should have won.

That's pretty much the definition of thinking like a scrub.

If LRMs that sometimes actually be competitive that's good news, it's ok for specific strategies to be strong on specific maps btw. This is no different from bringing cool brawlers to terra therma or long range snipers to alpine.

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

Technically, Polar Highland is full of concealment, not cover.

The difference, whilst seemingly minor, actually IS the difference between life and death.
http://www.offthegri...vs-concealment/

But I find gamers get the idea confused just as often as the difference between viable and optimal.

https://youtu.be/ifmRgQX82O4

[Sader325]

Sjorpha, on 04 March 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

So you lost a match because you couldn't counter what the other team did, and are now using excuses for why you should have won.

That's pretty much the definition of thinking like a scrub.

If LRMs that sometimes actually be competitive that's good news, it's ok for specific strategies to be strong on specific maps btw. This is no different from bringing cool brawlers to terra therma or long range snipers to alpine.

No?

We can't enjoy a video of LRMS flying? Why are you so angry calm down bro.

Watch the LRMs take a seat grab some popcorn and chill.

[Alistair Winter]

Nostromodamus, on 03 March 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

Is the thread title sarcastically referring to Sader's play? Because all I saw was a lot of running away from an LRM line, watching most of the action from afar and barely firing at any enemy mechs.
Pro gameplay indeed.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on here. Is OP making fun of himself or his teammates or the enemies or just gameplay at Tier 1? Because we don't really know how many Tier 1 players were in that match. I certainly didn't recognise many names. Maybe you hardcore lot would know better than me.

If I were to hazard a guess, this is what happens when Tier 1 players get mixed with Tier 2 and Tier 3. Since light mechs and assault mechs are the least popular mechs, those tend to be mixed Tiers. The result is fun matches like:

• Everyone is Tier 1. Except your assault lance. And they just wandered off into the open and got jacked by LRMs.
  
• Everyone is Tier 2 and Tier 3. Except Adiuvo* in an Arctic Cheetah, who is running around clubbing seals, because matchmaker couldn't find a Tier 1 match for him.

* Or whoever is recognised as a l33t light mech guy these days


By the way, I'm a Tier 1 player and I've had plenty of **** games lately. Sometimes I'm playing while cooking. Sometimes I'm playing while watching YouTubes. Sometimes I'm playing while chatting with people on Facebook. Sometimes I'm only playing with one hand, because... well, let's not go into details. So sometimes bad things happen to good people, and it's not necessarily matchmaker's fault.


EDIT:
Watched a little bit more of the video. Not watching the whole thing. But the statement "solo queue is basically everyone strapping LRMs to their mechs" is blatantly false. If you get a match on HPG Manifold, I doubt you'll see more than 1 LRM boat per team, at most. But map voting pretty much ensures that LRM boats will vote for Polar and against HPG Manifold, while laserbrawlers will vote for HPG Manifold and against Polar.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 04 March 2016 - 08:19 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Sader325, on 04 March 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

No?

We can't enjoy a video of LRMS flying? Why are you so angry calm down bro.

Watch the LRMs take a seat grab some popcorn and chill.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here, but maybe I just misunderstood your other posts. If you think I am/was angry that's a projection of some kind, I wasn't feeling angry while writing that post as far as I can recall and right now I'm just a litte confused if anything.

The previous posts and VOIP comments in the video gave me the impression that you wouldn't simply accept being beat by a stronger opponent with a better strategy just because they happened to do it with LRMs. That's how it sounded, but I may have misinterpreted all that. It sounded salty and scrubby, but things don't always sound like they actually are for sure.

In any case it would be nice to see LRMs tactics work well in high tiers more often, I hope PGI finds a way to buff them without making them too strong in lower tiers.

Edited by Sjorpha, 04 March 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Here is a video of a match with Sader on my team where I am running an LRM WHK on PH. We had several LRM mechs on our team and we won pretty handily. I believe Lucy was running an SRM HBK IIC and got most of the kills. The LRMs opened the enemies up and SRMs finished them off.


https://youtu.be/EqytdpENjfU

Edited by Lostdragon, 04 March 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Zerberus]

OOOOOH, thank you, that was just awesome to watch.

I figured you´d be streaming, but I had no Idea I´d get to see the next day on the forum just how deliciously annoying my LRMs can be against people that don´t care to react properly (not you, you did exactly what any sane person would have and ran like hell, the atlas you thought was dead after he got narced was the other one that got the memo in time for the drop). I have to admit, though, when I saw so many others tossing around equally large clouds i started laughing the same way you did

Seriously, that was like a "do not do what everybody except the guy streaming is doing when you run intio LRMs" video. And your initial reaction after taking the first barrages (which is when 2 other boats reacted to the called target of Bravo, when you looked around in disbelief after passing your teammate those were probably only their first or second salvos arriving...) is EXACTLY why I take them... the psychological effect is almost as important as the damage... like for example when you declared that atlas dead shortly after the first missiles arrived. *raises beer stein*

BTW: don´t bother waiting until I run out, I still had 400something rounds at the end, and even if I hadnt, 3 of those kills were with my pulse lasers, you were actually the only one I killed with the LRMs

But you ask if they should buff AMS, and also say "I mean, it´s f***ing dumb, dude".. What´s Effing dumb is that AMS weighs next to nothing and still nobody takes it.... Buffing it would serve no purpose for exactly that reason. If you watch at the start, you see barely any AMS at all, and that´s why we were able to blot out the sun. And that actually wasn´t even what I would consider a particularly good match....

The ******* dumb thing, with all due respect, is everyone complaining about LRMs but nobody doing anything beyond that complaining to actually counter them.

But definitely nice to see what it looks like from the other side.. doesn´t look like anything I´d want any part of... glad I´m on the other side

*edit* On other thing to take note of: One team had a significant amount of LRMs, whiile the other had neither LRMs (ok, 1 awesome , but..) nor AMS, nor ECM, and that team just more or less holed up and let tehmselves get pinned down while we encircled them in a killzone....... It was essentially the classic scenario we see in CoD all the time: a group of people using N00b-Tubes and teamplay that handily took out a team of people that may have been superior shooters with better guns but had massively inferior tactics.

These people generally don´t take ams becasue it doesn´t cause damage, and regularly decry LRMs on the forum as a zero skill "fire and forget" weapon with zero viable counters that can magically get it´s own locks from an orbital satellite and fly 5000m, and when there´s cover teh satellite fires missiles insted. And since there are no viable counters to LRMs, the UAV that went up at 6:11 in the middle of the team was left up until 6:29, the one that followed shortly after you moved to cap went through all the way, and after that there were only 2 or 3 of you left. Just lots of things where everybody always thinks "Ah, someone else will do it"... and everyone dies precisely because nobody did.

Further compounding that was the teamplay on our side, we were calling targets and focusing as a group from start to finish becasue someone decided to command and we decided to listen, and as you saw we also had Tags, Narcs, UAVs, and Lights and knew how to use them. Direct fire did the rest on those that were foolish enough to think they could still run.

So maybe they really are bad mechs that had a good game, but they had it in no small part because of massive gameplay and tactical failures on the other team, many of which happened long before the quickplay button was pressed. At that point, any mech will have a good game.

Oh, and BTW, that´s also Tier 3 gameplay, at least for me, becasue I´m Tier 3. *raises beer stein*

Edited by Zerberus, 04 March 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[xe N on]

Oh no, LRM discussion again. With screenshots and movies.

Some days ago I took my TBR meta mech with CGauss / CLPL in open queue into a match against i think 3 or 4 LRM mechs on canyon. I scored 955 damage (btw. no weapon module). The highest score of the LRM boats on enemy team was 392 (Mad Dog). No one from my team died (almost 0-12 stomp)... beside me ... but not from LRMs. After shooting so much sitting ducks ... sorry, I mean LRM boats by peek-a-boo without getting hit much, I was bored and imitated brawl with a marauder, which took me down.

Damn clam mech overheat so fast. I should have stayed on the easy prey.

Seriously, LRMs wins if the enemy team make mistakes. If you know that there is LRM rain you always can avoid it with the exception of a very few maps. Yes, you are restricted in your movement, but ... in the end ... the LRM team somehow needs to exploit this advantage (e.g. flank, use air-strikes, get the higher ground).

Otherwise, in peek-a-boo, situation, LRMs always loose because of travel time.

PS: I started mechwarrior playing a LRM Catapult and I really like the styles of LRMs. However, anytime I start playing a LRM mech again, I regret it quite fast.

Edited by xe N on, 04 March 2016 - 10:21 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Almond Brown, on 04 March 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

LOL! This place is way funnier than that other place.. LOL!

P.S. Well played by the Noobs though right, as only Noobs use LRM's right?
The T1 LEET folks preach that as if gospel ffs. Thus it has to be true right? LOL!

Pit any two comp teams together one optimized for LRMs and the other only PPFLD. Guess which one will win? Heck even two semi-competent teams outcome would be similar.

[Davegt27]

to much beer lol

[Sandpit]

All I'm going to say on this one?

Sader you're just looking and sounding kinda salty that you got beat by a weapon you personally feel is "inferior". You also make a lot of assumptions in regards to the other team's skill level, what if scenarios on different maps, etc.

You guys made some really poor decisions. There were only (what appeared to be) 4 lurm mechs and they were spread out. Basically you got with your pants down and didn't react very well to it lol

That means they had 8 other mechs not carrying lurms. That's a well-balanced force composition more than anything else. That's what mechs and mech forces are supposed to look like, not all boating 1-2 weapons and playing according to their alpha damage

It's exactly what needs to happen. You guys brought zero counters to a good balanced force that took advantage of the fact that you guys weren't prepared.

Honestly, you guys just sound really salty that you got beat by lurms in my opinion