66 replies to this topic

[Doman Hugin]

FupDup, on 05 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

People who ask for KD's don't think of themselves being in that condition, they fixate on the sadistic pleasure they'd get from doing it to other people.

Wrong, i want it in because it keeps people honest, and more often than not it was two people falling down not just one. so combat wise it was hardly an advantage.

[FupDup]

Doman Hugin, on 05 March 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

Wrong, i want it in because it keeps people honest, and more often than not it was two people falling down not just one. so combat wise it was hardly an advantage.

If there are any more people involved that aren't flopping on the ground, having to eat 2 full alpha strikes in the face (from the people who are still standing) without any means to move probably isn't that enjoyable...

Edited by FupDup, 05 March 2016 - 08:59 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Let me just point out, for the 100th time, that enabling knockdown in MWO doesn't necessarily mean MWO is turned into The Three Stooges as in Closed Beta. There are ways to balance knockdown, to stop it from happening all the damn time. Basically, create certain conditions for when a knockdown happens and then adjust the variables until you find a point where most players are happy with it.

Maybe knockdowns from collisions only happen when you're moving at x percent throttle, for example. Or when two mechs are crashing into each other with a combined speed of y kph.

Personally, I think they need to start with collisions, remove teleporting and implement death from above first. From there, slowly begin to incorporate knockdowns from collisions and damage. At first, it should be so rare that it only happens once per match on either team, at average. Then gradually lower the criteria so it becomes slightly more common, and players will gradually learn how to deal with the new rules and adjust their piloting accordingly.

Obviously, if PGI suddenly introduces new rules that makes everyone crash and fall down all the time, there would be chaos in the streets

[Doman Hugin]

FupDup, on 05 March 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

If there are any more people involved that aren't flopping on the ground, having to eat 2 full alpha strikes in the face (from the people who are still standing) without any means to move probably isn't that enjoyable...

So multiple mechs on one, in today's MWO. that's a dead mech anyway you look at it.

[Aresye]

I'd rather not go back to those buggy days, thank you.

[Ted Wayz]

Zolaz, on 05 March 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

You know, when I was in the Army, you didnt run into friendly fire and then blame someone else. Not sure how many people over at PGI were in the military, but I dont think it is very many.

IRL you have more tools for situational awareness. If the game were more immersive I might agree, but not in its current state.

BTW, when you were in the military did people shoot you in the back because they thought it was funny? Were you in the military with 10 year old kids? Just trying to add a little perspective to your post.

[Pjwned]

Doman Hugin, on 05 March 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

So multiple mechs on one, in today's MWO. that's a dead mech anyway you look at it.

Knockdowns could easily create a situation such as running away from multiple mechs, getting knocked down because a light mech bumped you or something like that, and then getting gangbanged by the other pursuing mechs in the process of getting back up.

[FupDup]

Doman Hugin, on 05 March 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

So multiple mechs on one, in today's MWO. that's a dead mech anyway you look at it.

Right now you can at least try to move away, torso twist to stay alive a bit longer, or just say "the heck with it" and try to hurt them before you go out.

KD's don't allow for any of those options. The effect they have on survivability is similar to an overheat shutdown, except that it would be induced every time an enemy mech or friendly mech touches you. You also don't have an override button for these...

[Sorbic]

Zolaz, on 05 March 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

Every game some surat on my own team runs into my mech. Those same surats only want to play Heavies and Assaults. PGI would need to put in greater penalties for trolling and messing with team mates. Wandering into a person's field of fire should get penalized. Right now we penalize the good player because someone else puts themselves into a bad situation and takes damage.

You know, when I was in the Army, you didnt run into friendly fire and then blame someone else. Not sure how many people over at PGI were in the military, but I dont think it is very many.

No we don't because a good player pulls/holds his fire. Very often what I see is a player crossing in front of a team mate *sometimes the only semi direct route due to positioning) who hasn't even fired. Red Doritos appear. Guy fires AFTER friendly has clearly entered LOF and berates him for walking into fire which was never there until that lumbering mech couldn't do squat about it. If one doesn't do crap like this then they get almost no team damage on average and the penalties are practically non-existent. I'd venture to say that most FF is intentional and simply done out of spite.

While you were in the military I'm also sure you didn't continue firing just because a friendly accidentally wandered into your lof like a lot of players do.

[Variant1]

Im sure knockdowns will be added for pve/single player. As for multilayer no i don't want to see it return there unless its in private matches as an option.

[Konrad]

Knockdowns needs to be a thing. A Jenner bumping a Jenner or, ton to ton bumping, should not result in a knockdown. But if you slam into 100 tons at 80kph in 20 tons you should feel the repercussions of that.

[Kumakichi]

Alistair Winter, on 05 March 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

Let me just point out knockdown in MWO doesn't necessarily mean MWO is turned into The Three Stooges ... implement death from above first.

All during closed beta never felt that KD's were of much benefit although they were hilarious. DFA's would be welcome too.

[AEgg]

Konrad, on 05 March 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

Knockdowns needs to be a thing. A Jenner bumping a Jenner or, ton to ton bumping, should not result in a knockdown. But if you slam into 100 tons at 80kph in 20 tons you should feel the repercussions of that.

As long as you realize that when that happens, both of you will take lots of damage, not just the faster mech.

I'm not sure how viable knockdowns would be with 12v12. People always tend to ball up anyway, and knockdowns make that a real problem. When it was only 8v8, there simply weren't as many mechs in the same place to bump into you.

[SplashDown]

Kodyn, on 05 March 2016 - 12:38 AM, said:

Mechs better get a lot more agile then, because I never see a match where half the team doesn't run into each other most of the match. It'd be nigh unplayable right now with collisions in. (I know, I know, "it will teach people not to run into each other!"...nope, i don't have that much faith in our playerbase, and have no reason to assume they'd clear that hurdle.)

LOL totaly agree...LRM storm incomeing..every knocks each other over trying to seek cover hahaha

Edited by SplashDown, 05 March 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Eidelon, on 05 March 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

When are Knockdowns/Collisions going to be added back into the game?
It used to be and has been with previous games that if you ran into something bigger than you, you fell down. Why has this not been put back in? Years ago when we were testing this you guys said you were only removing it for a temporary fix, and here we are several years later with light pilots running into the legs of assault mechs and suffering nothing for it. Can we please get this back into the game?

I miss this so much! It's just not MechWarrior without the ability to knock Mechs on their butts by ramming, slamming, and jumping!

FupDup, on 05 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

People who ask for KD's don't think of themselves being in that condition, they fixate on the sadistic pleasure they'd get from doing it to other people.

People who make comments like that forget how fun knock-downs are. Or, they are the type who joined MWO after they were removed and never played the earlier titles or read the books.

Knock downs, death from above, collisions...these are essential to MechWarrior.

[cazidin]

Nightmare1, on 05 March 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

I miss this so much! It's just not MechWarrior without the ability to knock Mechs on their butts by ramming, slamming, and jumping!



People who make comments like that forget how fun knock-downs are. Or, they are the type who joined MWO after they were removed and never played the earlier titles or read the books.

Knock downs, death from above, collisions...these are essential to MechWarrior.

Ramming speed is hilarious but that too can be exploited far too easily by trolls, even on say, Heavy Mechs that are fast enough. Better JJs would be nice and DFA could be a tricky but rewarding and fun maneuver to pull off. It'd certainly make the B33f happy. Lol.

Knock downs? Either they're a PITF (Pain In The Fountain. Remember, language...) or they're too difficult to pull off and not at all rewarding. The former allows for griefing, the latter causes grief to those who genuinely love the mechanic.

Edited by cazidin, 05 March 2016 - 12:51 PM.

[Nightmare1]

cazidin, on 05 March 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Ramming speed is hilarious but can be exploited far too easily by trolls, even on Heavy Mechs that are fast enough. Better JJs would be nice and DFA is a tricky but rewarding/fun maneuver.

Knock downs? Either they're a PITF (Pain In The Fountain. Remember, language...) or they're too difficult to pull off and not at all rewarding. The former allows for griefing, the latter causes grief to those who genuinely love the mechanic.

I feel like MW4 had a good mechanic for it. Knockdowns/collisions were easy enough that they happened on occasion, but not so easy as to make them commonplace.

Shoot, I remember that it took a Heavy Gauss and twin Clan Gauss to achieve knock downs with my Dires against any Heavy or larger. Lights and Mediums were unfazed by standard Gauss, but the Heavy Gauss might knock something like the Flea over. I really miss that gameplay.

[Appogee]

Your idea, while reasonable on the surface, would require PGI to do something more than reskin hardpoints.

So it must be relegated to the One Day™ pile... in perpetuity.

Now, have you bought a Phoenix Hawk Pack? For only $85 you can buy 8 variants of a Mech so good it can never be knocked down!

Edited by Appogee, 05 March 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Russ said some stuff about improving collision detection. At least to the degree that you're not warping around. But I really doubt we'll see knock downs again. I think they don't want to deal with the work and the load it would put on the game.

[Konrad]

MechaBattler, on 05 March 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

Russ said some stuff about improving collision detection. At least to the degree that you're not warping around. But I really doubt we'll see knock downs again. I think they don't want to deal with the work and the load it would put on the game.

Work? Maybe. However with my limited knowledge of the Cry Sandbox I was able to find the code and add it to in-game objects to create the effect I mentioned.

I do agree that the last attempt at it was incorrect.

Edited by Konrad, 05 March 2016 - 05:35 PM.