105 replies to this topic

[Douglas grizzly]

while ecm is very useful and i understand its need, i do think it is FAR too powerful. Reason i cant tell you how many times i have had a light mech hit me from behind without any warning whatsoever. believe me i am watching very carefully for the low signal and mini map disruptions, but still its very irritating to be fighting and all of a sudden be lity up by a mech there has been no warning that it is there. Also i have noticed several times mechs have not had the triangle above then even when at pointblank range. Whether that is a effect of ecm or not i dont know. If it is i dont think that should happen within say 1000 meters. I do understand not being able to lock missiles on them due to ecm and i support that.

Thoughts on correcting this in balance. make the ecm module weight and space intensive. IE if the ecm module is 1 space and 1 ton then change weight to 5 tons and 3 to 5 spaces. I do support limiting it to a few mechs, which is good. Also to correct the no triangle at point blank range , i suggest flickers of it, and same for the ones sneaking up on someone .

[Pjwned]

http://mwomercs.com/search?q=jesus+box

You're not alone thinking ECM is too good.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Learn2Seismic

[Metus regem]

ECM is okay, it protects from bad weapon systems, but does nothing verses the good to decent ones... outside of freshly minted T4/5 pilots do LRM's really kill? I haven't died to LRM fire since a few weeks into me learning how to play MWO, what I die to now is laser + gauss vomit / AC's, the things that ECM does nothing against. Was it a very useful tool a few months ago? yes.

Was it something that could be mitigated by decent shooting? yes.

Is radar deprivation a better tool? Yes.

[Xoco]

Unless someone is looking at the mech, he will not be "observed", and thus doesn't show up on radar. That's not because of ECM.

Assaults have much worse observation range (Lights have the furthest range), so it is significantly harder for the heavier lances to notice incoming Lights.

I think radar derp module also make it take longer to be detected.

If Lights are automatically detected as soon as they are near Assaults, then we'd all be doomed. I'm OK with ECM becoming more cumbersome IF radar derp (makes it harder for Lights to play spotter for their LRMers) and seismic sensors also have weight and slot requirement. Because that **** is straight up P2Win (well, I guess you can grind it out, but not many newer players will have them).

[GreyNovember]

You're new, I take it?

Bit of a fun fact. ECM used to be even worse than it was now. Before, an ECM mech could basically umbrella shield his entire team underneath an area of effect twice as large as it was now

Right Then.

There are two trial lights with ECM. One is the kind that seems to make you upset; the Arctic Cheetah. The other is a 2ERLL sniper raven. Give these a shot, and try to do exactly what the lights you're facing are doing to you. If you still think it's unfair that an ECM light is allowed to sneak around after trying their shoes on, come back to us and tell us why.

Your actual targeting does not occur until a mech is within 800-ish or so meters of you. Anything beyond that is an enemy that is locked on to by your friends.

ECM is a 90m range. This means that in order to actually affect you, the light mech has to be standing within small laser ranges.
If you cannot yet afford a Seismic module, which tells you the general direction of where enemy mechs might be around you on your minimap, then either follow someone on your team and never leave them, or ask someone to watch your back. Lights hate teamwork, and will rarely try to attack two enemies guarding each other; unless they're suicidal.

If you find yourself being backstabbed, immediately turn around. A light that gets in that close has rapid firing close range weapons. If the light tries to run circles around you, back up and predict where he's going to come out. Get your rear against a wall as soon as possible, and the light will probably give up. No light wants to play chicken with something that probably could evaporate it in one salvo.

[SteelBruiser]

Of course if ECM is harder to load on board the very few mechs that can load them now, then all the assaults and heavies will lose that ECM coverage as well and so they'll die even sooner to the missile spam. What you fail to realize is mechs with ECM are supposed to provide a protective umbrella over their team members...it's not just a tool for lights and snipers. If your wish for more cumbersome ECM is approved then you only have youself to blame for the increased death by missliles. Also, there are only a few lights that can carry ECM so if you're constantly being surprised and killed by lights, I think you may actually need to pay more attention to your surroundings or try to stay closer to team members.

Edited by SteelBruiser, 08 March 2016 - 09:37 AM.

[BigBenn]

ECM is not as good as it used to be. I think PGI has it about right, matter of fact I'm not sure what I'd suggest for them to change.

If anything... I think PGI should consider increasing the power BAP has against ECM. I wish there was a way to see just how many mechs take BAP. I use it on my certain LR mechs.

[Douglas grizzly]

as far as missile death, while it was very bad for me at first and yes i am somewhat new, it is not so much a issue how because i have learned to use terrain to mitigate them. The worst time i have with lights and ecm is in canyon terrain.

[Mcgral18]

The Magic Jesus Box should have its Magic Jesus Field reduced.

Currently, it quarters sensor range (you can't target them until 200M), while 50% (400M) would be a better proposition.

It could even have the 180M bubble again, as the size of the Jesus Box field was never the issue. The 'targetingfactor' attribute should change.

From 0.25 to 0.5


At that point, it's useful at range, but does not provide Dorito immunity until facehugging range. Along with keeping the other benefits (lock duration increase, NARC cancelling, paperdoll delay)

[Sandpit]

I've always felt that if ECM is going to work a a bubble, then BAP should do the same thing.

[Revis Volek]

Douglas grizzly, on 08 March 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

while ecm is very useful and i understand its need, i do think it is FAR too powerful. Reason i cant tell you how many times i have had a light mech hit me from behind without any warning whatsoever. believe me i am watching very carefully for the low signal and mini map disruptions, but still its very irritating to be fighting and all of a sudden be lity up by a mech there has been no warning that it is there. Also i have noticed several times mechs have not had the triangle above then even when at pointblank range. Whether that is a effect of ecm or not i dont know. If it is i dont think that should happen within say 1000 meters. I do understand not being able to lock missiles on them due to ecm and i support that.

Thoughts on correcting this in balance. make the ecm module weight and space intensive. IE if the ecm module is 1 space and 1 ton then change weight to 5 tons and 3 to 5 spaces. I do support limiting it to a few mechs, which is good. Also to correct the no triangle at point blank range , i suggest flickers of it, and same for the ones sneaking up on someone .

So effectively kill every light mech that carries ECM?


You realize how BAD of an idea that is right?

5 TONS?!!? Just because LRMS cant hit you? That just ludicrous honestly its not a big deal at all. If you cant beat an ECM mech in something heavier its YOU not the tech.



Changes to Bubble would be great and i agree with him that is BAP should also be a bubble (mech shutdown detect, and all ECM should not work CORRECTLY in there). But making it 4 tons heavier is absurd.

I just wouldnt mind seeing a flicker effect like the OP talked about...maybe loose, crappy locks once you enter a BAP bubble?

OR should we just take the targeting factor and APPLY it to BAP, so if you EQUIP BAP you get a cut in ECM mech target time...any NON BAP mechs dont? Just a thought, would make BAP a lot more lucrative IMO.

Edited by Revis Volek, 08 March 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Sandpit, on 08 March 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

I've always felt that if ECM is going to work a a bubble, then BAP should do the same thing.

You mind elaborating?
BAP is a bubble, isn't it? With a 240M radius for the anti-Jesus Box bubble.
The 120/150M shut down detect is directional, but that's more the sensor limitations (only X degrees in the frontal arc)

[nehebkau]

Douglas grizzly, on 08 March 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

while ecm is very useful and i understand its need, i do think it is FAR too powerful. Reason i cant tell you how many times i have had a light mech hit me from behind without any warning whatsoever. believe me i am watching very carefully for the low signal and mini map disruptions, but still its very irritating to be fighting and all of a sudden be lity up by a mech there has been no warning that it is there. Also i have noticed several times mechs have not had the triangle above then even when at pointblank range. Whether that is a effect of ecm or not i dont know. If it is i dont think that should happen within say 1000 meters. I do understand not being able to lock missiles on them due to ecm and i support that.

Thoughts on correcting this in balance. make the ecm module weight and space intensive. IE if the ecm module is 1 space and 1 ton then change weight to 5 tons and 3 to 5 spaces. I do support limiting it to a few mechs, which is good. Also to correct the no triangle at point blank range , i suggest flickers of it, and same for the ones sneaking up on someone .

Just another "I cant fire my LRMS from 900 M away because of ECM! NERF IT!!!" post. ECM fills a vital role in the game now and with it easily being counted, at a greater range, by BAP. Right now, ECMs only purposes are to stop the '900 M LRM spammers' from sitting at the back thinking how awesome they are because they can press R and a mouse button and punishing those people who can only see the red Doritos.

You have NARC, TAG and BAP all of which counter ECM at various ranges, and BAP requires you to do absolutely nothing to have it counter ECM so, maybe get out of the back ranks, man-up and fight from the 200-300M range of the front lines and you won't worry about ECM again.

Equip some large lasers, gauss or ERPPCs and you don't have to worry about that sniper-light.

Edited by nehebkau, 08 March 2016 - 11:16 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 08 March 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

You mind elaborating?
BAP is a bubble, isn't it? With a 240M radius for the anti-Jesus Box bubble.
The 120/150M shut down detect is directional, but that's more the sensor limitations (only X degrees in the frontal arc)

It only counters a single ECM though. If 2 mechs are carrying ECM only one of them will lose their ECM coverage. Same with UAVs.

So, for example, if I am running BAP and 2 cheetahs come rushing in, once they're in my BAP bubble, their ECM should be negated.

[TELEFORCE]

Douglas grizzly, on 08 March 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Thoughts on correcting this in balance. make the ecm module weight and space intensive. IE if the ecm module is 1 space and 1 ton then change weight to 5 tons and 3 to 5 spaces.

That would break stock builds that incorporate ECM. PGI doesn't make up most of the stock builds; Those builds come from an established IP that's been around for years, and many of those stock builds have been around for years too.

I think ECM would be better just by increasing missile lock time and screwing with the effects of the Narc and Artemis rather than acting like a lostech Null Signature System. But now ECM is a lot more tame than it was earlier last year.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 08 March 2016 - 11:21 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 08 March 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

The Magic Jesus Box should have its Magic Jesus Field reduced.

Currently, it quarters sensor range (you can't target them until 200M), while 50% (400M) would be a better proposition.

It could even have the 180M bubble again, as the size of the Jesus Box field was never the issue. The 'targetingfactor' attribute should change.

From 0.25 to 0.5


At that point, it's useful at range, but does not provide Dorito immunity until facehugging range. Along with keeping the other benefits (lock duration increase, NARC cancelling, paperdoll delay)

400M is pretty far, kinda defeats the purpose at that point IMO, its say 350M at best.


And the SIZE of the field was very much the issue because 2 ECM mechs could essentially bubble the whole team, PGI stated they didnt want that and i agree. ECM shouldn't blanket the whole team with such a minimal amount of ECM mechs used.

Now if more a kin to having en ECM mech PER lance in order to keep the bubble, and even then you have to be RIGHT on top of each other. I like the change honestly but i think targeting factor should have change too.

[Wolfways]

The problem with ECM was never the range. It's the fact that it does things it should not.
ECM should not hide the doritos and make mechs "invisible". It also should not affect lock-on weapons.

It should stop you seeing what loadouts and damage the mech carrying ECM and his friendlies within range have.
Even that alone is worth the tonnage imo. If you don't think seeing the target mechs damage is important then you are doing it wrong.

ECM is only so OP because if pgi removed the LRM invulnerability then newbies/noobs would complain non-stop about having to learn to play instead of having a crutch to lean on.

[Luminis]

ECM is similar to stealth heroes in MOBAs. They're pug stompers and crap all over new players because they don't know what to do against them. Once those ECM 'Mechs (or stealth heroes in MOBAs) are being fielded against more experienced players, they suddenly become a lot less amazing.

The result is a pretty split opinion of how "OP" that stuff actually is.

Imho.

Edited by Luminis, 08 March 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[SplashDown]

ecm isnt powerfull enuff......i luv ecm i wish it wer more powerfull as it should be..but im ok with it the way it is......most players dun like it cuz they are simple point and shoot everything ded heads