283 replies to this topic

[Xavori]

Wow. I'm glad I didn't pre-order the archer, and I went from absolutely going to purchase to no way in hell.

Even the roflmen have better quirks, and the warhammers blow the archers out of the water. Basically, the archers are going to be soft, slow, and not even very good at LRM boating, and forget about trying to go splat SRM build with them because you'll just get melted the first time an enemy looks at ya.

I figured we'd be getting quirks along the lines of the Stalker 5M which is easily the best quirked mech for LRM boating (and pretty good for splat builds too). 15% range, 10% cooldown, and 10% velocity for missiles allowing you to go either SRM or LRM.

Or you could look at the Quickdraw 4H which is 15% velocity, 5% cooldown, and 10% heat...splat build love, and again, it's generic missile so you could go either SRM or LRM.

And of course no comparison would be complete without the Splatapult, ie. the Catapult A1. Piles o' structure quirks, 10% missile velocity, cooldown, and heat...still generic, and SIX missile hardpoints. Why would you ever pick any Archer over that?

And I could keep going...

In other words, PGI is about to release THE missile mech, and yet it's far worse at its role than a whole great big pile of existing mechs.

[Duke Nedo]

Random meh, weak pgi.

[Soulstrom]

Xavori, on 10 March 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

In other words, PGI is about to release THE missile mech, and yet it's far worse at its role than a whole great big pile of existing mechs.

That is probably because they have been so focused on Laser-Vomit for so long they forgot they were releasing a missile mech.

[Xavori]

Soulstrom, on 10 March 2016 - 09:58 PM, said:

That is probably because they have been so focused on Laser-Vomit for so long they forgot they were releasing a missile mech.

Ya, Bishop! Get on this. Start a Twitter blitz on Russ with the goal of just making the Archer's missile quirks the equivalent of existing mechs (not better...just the same). Cuz as is, there truly is no point in buying this package versus just buying existing mechs with c-bills, and PGI kinda needs to be encouraging people to spend cash which means selling mechs that are at least as good as those existing mechs.

[Soulstrom]

Xavori, on 10 March 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

Ya, Bishop! Get on this. Start a Twitter blitz on Russ with the goal of just making the Archer's missile quirks the equivalent of existing mechs (not better...just the same). Cuz as is, there truly is no point in buying this package versus just buying existing mechs with c-bills, and PGI kinda needs to be encouraging people to spend cash which means selling mechs that are at least as good as those existing mechs.

I think the real shame here is that this is a sign of things to come with the Kodiak and Phoenix Hawk.

Also they should update the quirks on the archer for the simple reason of not scaring away potential buyers of the Phoenix Hawk packs.

[Xavori]

Soulstrom, on 10 March 2016 - 10:12 PM, said:

I think the real shame here is that this is a sign of things to come with the Kodiak and Phoenix Hawk.

Also they should update the quirks on the archer for the simple reason of not scaring away potential buyers of the Phoenix Hawk packs.

The Kodiak is a clan mech, and while it's a battlemech, you can look at the IIC's and see it wasn't going to be quirked. Doesn't matter because it's still a 100 ton mech with 400XL engines which is one hell of a "quirk" by itself.

The Phoenix Hawk, tho, did just get dumped from my purchase list for the same reason as the Archer. No way am I risking buying a mech that will be worse than mechs I already have (like the Griffins which I'm pretty happy with the quirk variety on their lil' 55 ton selves).

Oh, and speaking of those Griffins, the 1N is a better missile mech than the Archer. I actually ran that one as a splat build for my medium mech during this week's event

Edited by Xavori, 10 March 2016 - 10:23 PM.

[Soulstrom]

Xavori, on 10 March 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

The Phoenix Hawk, tho, did just get dumped from my purchase list for the same reason as the Archer. No way am I risking buying a mech that will be worse than mechs I already have (like the Griffins which I'm pretty happy with the quirk variety on their lil' 55 ton selves).

Thanks for proving my point. *Thumbs Up*

[Soulstrom]

Xavori, on 10 March 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

Ya, Bishop! Get on this. Start a Twitter blitz on Russ with the goal of just making the Archer's missile quirks the equivalent of existing mechs.

I Agree!



or if you need more motivation!

[Y E O N N E]

They are pushing it hard as an LRM 'Mech, you can see that in the low structure. It's the same philosophy employed on the RFL; as a fire support 'Mech, it isn't meant to be durable.

That said, that is a silly philosophy for two reasons:

1.) Some of these Archers come stock with SRMs
2.) That automatically cans a 'Mech into the "not competitive" inventory unless it has inherently fantastic geometry...which this one does not.

And to boot, they didn't really give it the quirks it needs to succeed over the incumbent LRM champions, or even the incumbent SRM brawlers. And I'm really scratching my head at the more substantial buffs to the Archer's secondary battery of energy weapons. Like, wat.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 March 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

They are pushing it hard as an LRM 'Mech, you can see that in the low structure. It's the same philosophy employed on the RFL; as a fire support 'Mech, it isn't meant to be durable.

That said, that is a silly philosophy for two reasons:

1.) Some of these Archers come stock with SRMs
2.) That automatically cans a 'Mech into the "not competitive" inventory unless it has inherently fantastic geometry...which this one does not.

And to boot, they didn't really give it the quirks it needs to succeed over the incumbent LRM champions, or even the incumbent SRM brawlers. And I'm really scratching my head at the more substantial buffs to the Archer's secondary battery of energy weapons. Like, wat.

The SRMs were still secondary weapon systems, primary role was still meant to be long range bombardment.

That said, they were also near max armored, unlike RFL, Jagers or even Catapults. So it should be a moderately tough mech, whereas I am fine with some fragility to the RFL as that fit's it's traditional description.

So yeah...as a whole, the Quirks just feel.....off?

[El Bandito]

Wow, 50% accel/decel quirk on a dual LRM15 mech? That allows me to quickly dart out of cover and then... ...stand in the open trying to get lock for up to 4 seconds.

Thanks PGI, for saving me millions of C-Bills! I can make it rain harder in a Medium mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 March 2016 - 11:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 10 March 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

Wow, 50% accel/decel quirk on a dual LRM15 mech? That allows me to quickly dart out of cover and then... ...stand in the open trying to get lock for up to 4 seconds.

Thanks PGI, for saving me millions of C-Bills!

yup. That's what I'm talking about.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Underwhelmed, I suppose, is how I feel.

ARC-2R: As the base variant, and in keeping with an apparent theme, it has the cool mobility quirks. Also, as the oldskool LRM boat heavy, it has the broad LRM quirks, and they are LRM-ONLY. Makes sense enough. MINOR energy quirks are fine, though I'd rather have a single 10% one than a pair of 5% ones. A 5% quirk often goes unnoticed.

ARC-5S: Makes less sense. First, the ONLY structure quirks are limbs. For a mech with an XL engine, that's awful. And maybe I'm off here, but I feel that the quirks should reflect the STOCK loadout, like how all the WHMs got PPC quirks. So, no torso structure quirks and NO MISSILE QUIRKS? Okay, that sucks. We DID get two quirks, though, that FIT. Range and duration quirks for lasers, on a mech that carries pulse lasers STOCK. That works. The rest of these quirks, however, do NOT really work.

ARC-5W: Got the right idea, but not enough OF it. YES, we are going to build these to be ridiculous SRM brawlers. So the torso structure buffs are MUCH appreciated. The mobility quirks aren't GREAT compared to the above two variants, but they're better than nothing. They'll HELP, anyhow. But then the MISSILE quirk? A mech with NARC and SRM-4s STOCK, gets NO NARC OR SRM QUIRKS? Weak f***ing sauce.

ARC-T: Ah, the Tempest. Heavy missile boat with ECM! Despite having the God Box, it gets ALL the structure quirks? Not sure I follow the thinking there. I get that we balance the ECM with milder quirks (just look at this thing with the MOST STRUCTURE QUIRKS OF THE CHASSIS), but a pair of 5% quirks and that's it? One of them being a MEDIUM LASER quirk on a primarily MISSILE-CARRYING mech? Wild.

The dart board. That is about the only way I can reason this all out. They assigned a quirk to each number on the dart board, and then blindfolded Tina and made her throw the darts, and something something something THESE QUIRKS ARE PRETTY DUMB.

Still gonna love this mech, though. And as always, ALEX IS A FREAKING MANIAC!

[Glaucon]

PGI is getting more incompetent as times goes on.

[Duke Nedo]

El Bandito, on 10 March 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

Wow, 50% accel/decel quirk on a dual LRM15 mech? That allows me to quickly dart out of cover and then... ...stand in the open trying to get lock for up to 4 seconds.

Thanks PGI, for saving me millions of C-Bills! I can make it rain harder in a Medium mech.

It may be that the lack of ST structure comes from the new missile bay door mechanics, so that is at least potentially OK. Some agility quirks is fine and all, but what we really miss here is some neat Missile quirks. Perhaps it's wrong to compare to the Catapult since it has the VCR geometry and all, but say for example the JM6-A with its 4x 20 tubes, it gets:

- Missile cooldown: 20%
- Missile heatgen: 10%
- Missile velocity: 10%
- Ballistics velocity: 35%
- Ballistics range: 20%
- Ballistics cooldown: 5%
+ Agility
+ Structure

Who ever is responsible for quirking mechs is clearly not doing his job well.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2016 - 10:56 PM, said:

The SRMs were still secondary weapon systems, primary role was still meant to be long range bombardment.

That said, they were also near max armored, unlike RFL, Jagers or even Catapults. So it should be a moderately tough mech, whereas I am fine with some fragility to the RFL as that fit's it's traditional description.

So yeah...as a whole, the Quirks just feel.....off?

Well...the ARC-2R has 3x SRM6 + 6x SmLas...I would say the SRMs are the primary payload on that one and, in fact, it is the only one of the bunch that comes with SRMs stock. I don't know if PGI is having a laugh, but it's also the variant with the strongest LRM quirks.

Best LRM quirks on the variant that comes with absolutely no LRMs and instead comes with the biggest SRMs available.

So, yeah, the quirks are off. Way off.

I do think the 5W with 5x SRM2 + 4x SRM4 is still going to be monstrous. Hell, even 9x SRM2 could be pretty lulzy fired 4+5.

[Oberost]

The Marauder, Warhammer and Rifleman got acceptable quirks (sometimes good ones), and the the Archer get this?

[Y E O N N E]

Oberost, on 10 March 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:

The Marauder, Warhammer and Rifleman got acceptable quirks (sometimes good ones), and the the Archer get this?

Marauder is generally under-gunned. Range is too short, the ballistics are too slow (cool-down and velocity). Everything the MAD can do, the WHM does better since its durability buffs are just as potent and its weapon quirks are better.

The only MADs I would say are not under-gunned are the 5D when used at the close-range bracket and the BHII in general, though the BHII would be a better 'Mech if it wasn't limited to a 300-size engine.

[Soultraxx]

As very casual player and a non Lore follower I only bought the Archer because its a new mech and having new mechs each month retains my interest in the game.

It all looks a little underwhelming to my casual eye. Perhaps good players can see its potential, but I see a mech that I'll probably be outstandingly average in at best. Maybe it'll have magic hitboxes and turn out to be one of the best SRM brawlers in game, but then again it might not.

I'll most likely end up trying to make a Griffin out of mine and hope for the best.

[Xavori]

Soultraxx, on 10 March 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

I'll most likely end up trying to make a Griffin out of mine and hope for the best.

Except that if you make a Griffin out of a Griffin, it's better

http://images.akamai...18209F7E05F2C5/

Edited by Xavori, 10 March 2016 - 11:41 PM.