259 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

LegendaryArticuno, on 14 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Well technically by design Archer can do nothing but boat LRMs.

It has no toughness quirks, so it can't brawl or be part of a firing line. Its hard points dont allow for sniping, so really all it can do is stay in cover and lob LRMs.

Except
1) Good LRMwarriors don't stay in cover
2) Since it packed essentially max armor for it's class, it can easily be inferred to have been "tough for class" unlike say, the Warhmammer, that carried only about 75% of max armor. Thus it's no stretch that it would be a decent candidate for structure quirks, since it's lore STOCK role was actually a tanky LRM support Mech.

And this is without the mental gymnastics some of y'all have tried to use to get it made into a SRMBoat.

Xylek, on 14 March 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Tempest has 3 of those hardpoints in the CT according tot he store page, limiting it to 7 used at most.

6 Energy (2x each Arm, 2x CT)
2 Missiles (1x each ST)

is 8 last I checked, without even mentioning the CT Missile slot.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

On Tina Benoit's devdrop live stream, Paul just addressed the Archer quirks, and as the title say, stated they were posted before being finalized, and are now going through revision and possible changes.

I'm rather disappointed if they are starting the mechs out with quirks during testing.
They need to test how the machine ACTUALLY performs... then tweak and 'quirk'. if we give "All" mechs the same baseline quirks and then quirk on top of that, we're just enhancing the power creep ******** that much more.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 14 March 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

I'm rather disappointed if they are starting the mechs out with quirks during testing.
They need to test how the machine ACTUALLY performs... then tweak and 'quirk'. if we give "All" mechs the same baseline quirks and then quirk on top of that, we're just enhancing the power creep ******** that much more.

Ummm...have you paid attention to the last 3 releases?

All quirked before delivery, all HEAVILY quirked.

[Koniving]

Now if it's some quirks they did after a little while of testing them without quirks, sure. But if it's a general slap on like Russ's one twitter post says, then what do they really evaluate with these mechs before quirking the **** out of them?

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Ummm...have you paid attention to the last 3 releases?

All quirked before delivery, all HEAVILY quirked.

That's quirked before delivery. I'm talking about being quirked from the get-go during testing.
As opposed to SOME testing to see how it does, then quirking based on that before delivery, and adjustments with live data.

Edited by Koniving, 14 March 2016 - 04:21 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 14 March 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Now if it's some quirks they did after a little while of testing them without quirks, sure. But if it's a general slap on like Russ's one twitter post says, then what do they really evaluate with these mechs before quirking the **** out of them?


That's quirked before delivery. I'm talking about being quirked from the get-go during testing.

Koniving, on 14 March 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Now if it's some quirks they did after a little while of testing them without quirks, sure. But if it's a general slap on like Russ's one twitter post says, then what do they really evaluate with these mechs before quirking the **** out of them?


That's quirked before delivery. I'm talking about being quirked from the get-go during testing.

How about you ask him that?

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

How about you ask him that?

I don't see any point. Twitter is there for the tweeting-inclined.
And we won't see him make much of a presence on the forums.
Let the twitter-inclined tweet him about it. I don't use that.
Besides, when someone does there will be a huge forum shin-dig about it.

Edited by Koniving, 14 March 2016 - 04:23 PM.

[Malleus011]

I have to say I'm underwhelmed with the Archer release so far. I don't think 'shoddy' is too sharp a term for it. There have been a number of PGI mistakes made - and promptly called out by the community - that they seem uninterested in fixing.

This isn't free content they're releasing. This isn't even MC content. This is, for the most part, pre-paid content. Consumers have been waiting for this delivery for months, and PGI's execution of this delivery has been riddled with errors. Yes, they are only minor errors, nothing earth-shaking. One we can look past, but mistake after mistake, with no effort to fix them, starts to suggest that PGI doesn't really care about delivering a quality product. Or a quality gaming experience.

I have the Warhammer desktop screen cap as my desktop right now, because it is (narrowly) my favorite 'mech. If it was the Archer, I'd be annoyed, because the desktops they delivered are a non-canon Archer custom. This was pointed out the day they posted them. Nothing. The next day, they post the wrong stat block for the 2R. The community points this out, finally getting Russ' attention on Twitter - and it's still wrong everywhere they posted it, 4 working days later. The quirks are 'not final' and 'accidentally released' ... and they're not going to make an effort to fix them before release. The 'mech didn't use the new rescaling program they are applying - at the same time the Archer is being made - to older 'mechs. 8% too small, meaning it will need a rescale - and eventual re-quirking. None of these are world-shaking taken alone, but as a group, does this really fill you with confidence about pre-ordering the Phoenix Hawk and Kodiak, much less the 'mechs that come after?

Seriously, PGI, Bishop or Koniving or I or a dozen other guys could knock together a short, reasonably fair, quirk list for every single Archer variant in ten minutes. Edit the XML file and put the quirks in, then photoshop up an updated quirk graphic and fix the Archer announcement. Announce that these are temporary quirks and that you'll be evaluating the Archer's battlefield performance over the next ninety days so you can determine final quirks (before rescale). Just from what I've seen in this thread, you'll make 80-120$ in sales. That's more than worth the little time it'll take to make the changes I've suggested, and your fixing the worst of the quality control errors and pleasing your fanbase.

For Kerensky's sake, guys, make at least a minimum effort, here. Sheesh.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Malleus011, on 14 March 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

I have to say I'm underwhelmed with the Archer release so far. I don't think 'shoddy' is too sharp a term for it. There have been a number of PGI mistakes made - and promptly called out by the community - that they seem uninterested in fixing.

This isn't free content they're releasing. This isn't even MC content. This is, for the most part, pre-paid content. Consumers have been waiting for this delivery for months, and PGI's execution of this delivery has been riddled with errors. Yes, they are only minor errors, nothing earth-shaking. One we can look past, but mistake after mistake, with no effort to fix them, starts to suggest that PGI doesn't really care about delivering a quality product. Or a quality gaming experience.

I have the Warhammer desktop screen cap as my desktop right now, because it is (narrowly) my favorite 'mech. If it was the Archer, I'd be annoyed, because the desktops they delivered are a non-canon Archer custom. This was pointed out the day they posted them. Nothing. The next day, they post the wrong stat block for the 2R. The community points this out, finally getting Russ' attention on Twitter - and it's still wrong everywhere they posted it, 4 working days later. The quirks are 'not final' and 'accidentally released' ... and they're not going to make an effort to fix them before release. The 'mech didn't use the new rescaling program they are applying - at the same time the Archer is being made - to older 'mechs. 8% too small, meaning it will need a rescale - and eventual re-quirking. None of these are world-shaking taken alone, but as a group, does this really fill you with confidence about pre-ordering the Phoenix Hawk and Kodiak, much less the 'mechs that come after?

Seriously, PGI, Bishop or Koniving or I or a dozen other guys could knock together a short, reasonably fair, quirk list for every single Archer variant in ten minutes. Edit the XML file and put the quirks in, then photoshop up an updated quirk graphic and fix the Archer announcement. Announce that these are temporary quirks and that you'll be evaluating the Archer's battlefield performance over the next ninety days so you can determine final quirks (before rescale). Just from what I've seen in this thread, you'll make 80-120$ in sales. That's more than worth the little time it'll take to make the changes I've suggested, and your fixing the worst of the quality control errors and pleasing your fanbase.

For Kerensky's sake, guys, make at least a minimum effort, here. Sheesh.

QFT and probably post of the week

[cazidin]

Whatever we do, we mustn't let Russ forget to buff PPCs, LBX, Command Console and now the Archer.

[EgoSlayer]

This has gone from sad (the announcement) to comical ( the quirks were pre-release), back to sad (Russ's twitter that the quirks are not changing). Really shows a lack of planning, communication, and uniformity from PGI.

[IronEricP]

Well, ok then. If this is what we got, this is what we got. I'm gonna make the most of it in my own weird fashion.
I plan to:
Make the 2R a LRM staple, possibly use XL regardless of dangers and put 3 large LRMs in there. Or configure it as a 5R (2 ER Large, 2 ALRM-15s, std engine; best TT Archer of the Invasion Era, IMO)
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Archer)
Make the 5W a wacky light/med hunter with streaks or SRM-4s and speed, utilizing the oddly choiced (but rather high) agility buffs to escape other heavies.
Make the 5S a Mid range skirmisher/brawler with some form of Large lasers with SRM backups.
And probably a strange hybrid build on the Tempest; LRM-10s with lots of ammo and 6 MPulse. Or switch this and the 5S build I mentioned.

Really nice thing to remember though: 3 of the 4 come with DHS pre-installed, and the Tempest has Endo. Also no Ferro needing to be switched out for Endo on the others

Imma play the h*** out of this Chassis, and that's all there is to it.

Edited by Eric Portenelli, 14 March 2016 - 07:47 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Malleus011, on 14 March 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

I have to say I'm underwhelmed with the Archer release so far. I don't think 'shoddy' is too sharp a term for it. There have been a number of PGI mistakes made - and promptly called out by the community - that they seem uninterested in fixing.

This isn't free content they're releasing. This isn't even MC content. This is, for the most part, pre-paid content. Consumers have been waiting for this delivery for months, and PGI's execution of this delivery has been riddled with errors. Yes, they are only minor errors, nothing earth-shaking. One we can look past, but mistake after mistake, with no effort to fix them, starts to suggest that PGI doesn't really care about delivering a quality product. Or a quality gaming experience.

I have the Warhammer desktop screen cap as my desktop right now, because it is (narrowly) my favorite 'mech. If it was the Archer, I'd be annoyed, because the desktops they delivered are a non-canon Archer custom. This was pointed out the day they posted them. Nothing. The next day, they post the wrong stat block for the 2R. The community points this out, finally getting Russ' attention on Twitter - and it's still wrong everywhere they posted it, 4 working days later. The quirks are 'not final' and 'accidentally released' ... and they're not going to make an effort to fix them before release. The 'mech didn't use the new rescaling program they are applying - at the same time the Archer is being made - to older 'mechs. 8% too small, meaning it will need a rescale - and eventual re-quirking. None of these are world-shaking taken alone, but as a group, does this really fill you with confidence about pre-ordering the Phoenix Hawk and Kodiak, much less the 'mechs that come after?

Seriously, PGI, Bishop or Koniving or I or a dozen other guys could knock together a short, reasonably fair, quirk list for every single Archer variant in ten minutes. Edit the XML file and put the quirks in, then photoshop up an updated quirk graphic and fix the Archer announcement. Announce that these are temporary quirks and that you'll be evaluating the Archer's battlefield performance over the next ninety days so you can determine final quirks (before rescale). Just from what I've seen in this thread, you'll make 80-120$ in sales. That's more than worth the little time it'll take to make the changes I've suggested, and your fixing the worst of the quality control errors and pleasing your fanbase.

For Kerensky's sake, guys, make at least a minimum effort, here. Sheesh.

quoted for truth.

If they are giving this many "f****" for the Archer (and the Rifleman felt a little uninspired after the Marauder and Warhammer... not Alex's redesign which has been brilliant as we have come to expect, but the release, quirks, attitude. Note how many RFLs you see each match?), just what does that say for the upcoming Kodiak, or that "Mega-Pack" for the Phoenix Hawk?

Seriously, this is the first time I would consider cancelling an order (I was gifted my PHX packs, so I won't be cancelling, obviously), because I do think Malleus has nailed it right, there seems to be an indifference about it, from the top down. I don't know if some of this is our own fault, because many people from myself, to Andi to Imperius, etc have poured it on Russ of late, on top of the massive amount of work going into the rescale, and CW3. So I don't want to make a big stink out of it, but I must say I can't help but feel a little disappointed in the QA and general "feel" of this release.

It's kind of like they are just tired.

And you know, until we play it, we don't for a certainty know, that's true. Even well plotted, educated guesses have proven wrong before (ALL the forum luminaries, probably even myself, pretty much unanimously declared the Shadow Hawk DoA.... and well, until the Clans and Quirks shoved it aside, one couldn't have gotten that much more wrong), so it could be tomorrow afternoon a lot of pleasant surprises. I hope so.

But Malleus' point doesn't even have to do with the finished product, but the general feel of indifference toward the release. Lends credence to my opinion that we need to reduce the release to a 3 day thing. Because if PGI can't bring themselves to get excited about them, how can they expect us to be?

Eric Portenelli, on 14 March 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

Am considering 2xLRM10 and 3x LPL for my Tempest, with of course, ECM.

[Panthros]

What it needs are generic missile quirks so people can use SRM or LRM!

Edited by Panthros, 14 March 2016 - 07:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Panthros, on 14 March 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

What it needs are generic missile quirks so people can use SRM or LRM!

naw.

Mechs should be able to run non stock-ish builds fine, but shouldn't be rewarded for it, sorry, it's my story and I'm sticking to it.

To me the only thing worse than a poorly quirked mech is the many times the comp(ish...very ish in some cases, lol) community got PGI to wrongly quirk a mech to be something 180 of what it's supposed to (like Ballistic K2s).

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 March 2016 - 07:52 PM.

[RestosIII]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 March 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

naw.

Mechs should be able to run non stock-ish builds fine, but shouldn't be rewarded for it, sorry, it's my story and I'm sticking to it.

To me the only thing worse than a poorly quirked mech is the many times the comp(ish...very ish in some cases, lol) community got PGI to wrongly quirk a mech to be something 180 of what it's supposed to (like Ballistic K2s).

What I'm hoping for is either a mixture of LRM and generic missile quirks, or just significant LRM quirks. If we get only generic missile quirks, they'll force them to be extremely minor so that people can't go crazy with SRM builds. But personally? My dream quirks would be significant boosts to velocity and spread of larger LRM launchers and structure. Give us both of those, and we can have a good artemis-equipped LRM mech that can hold its own locks without getting shredded.

[Bishop Steiner]

RestosIII, on 14 March 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

What I'm hoping for is either a mixture of LRM and generic missile quirks, or just significant LRM quirks. If we get only generic missile quirks, they'll force them to be extremely minor so that people can't go crazy with SRM builds. But personally? My dream quirks would be significant boosts to velocity and spread of larger LRM launchers and structure. Give us both of those, and we can have a good artemis-equipped LRM mech that can hold its own locks without getting shredded.

Yeah, not many hopes that Paul can't manage to dash on the Rocks of Despair.

[Wintersdark]

Damia Savon, on 14 March 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Just make it part of the ams system. If anything should warn you of lrms it is your ams. If you don't want to take basic precautions, then don't *****.

Easy as pie and logical too.

This is brilliant. Seriously. I really, really like this idea.

A lot.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2016 - 06:00 AM, said:

Yeah, not many hopes that Paul can't manage to dash on the Rocks of Despair.

The three Great Constants in life.

Death, Taxes, and Paul bearing dissappointment.

[C E Dwyer]

Malleus011, on 14 March 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

I have to say I'm underwhelmed with the Archer release so far. I don't think 'shoddy' is too sharp a term for it. There have been a number of PGI mistakes made - and promptly called out by the community - that they seem uninterested in fixing.

This isn't free content they're releasing. This isn't even MC content. This is, for the most part, pre-paid content. Consumers have been waiting for this delivery for months, and PGI's execution of this delivery has been riddled with errors. Yes, they are only minor errors, nothing earth-shaking. One we can look past, but mistake after mistake, with no effort to fix them, starts to suggest that PGI doesn't really care about delivering a quality product. Or a quality gaming experience.

I have the Warhammer desktop screen cap as my desktop right now, because it is (narrowly) my favorite 'mech. If it was the Archer, I'd be annoyed, because the desktops they delivered are a non-canon Archer custom. This was pointed out the day they posted them. Nothing. The next day, they post the wrong stat block for the 2R. The community points this out, finally getting Russ' attention on Twitter - and it's still wrong everywhere they posted it, 4 working days later. The quirks are 'not final' and 'accidentally released' ... and they're not going to make an effort to fix them before release. The 'mech didn't use the new rescaling program they are applying - at the same time the Archer is being made - to older 'mechs. 8% too small, meaning it will need a rescale - and eventual re-quirking. None of these are world-shaking taken alone, but as a group, does this really fill you with confidence about pre-ordering the Phoenix Hawk and Kodiak, much less the 'mechs that come after?

Seriously, PGI, Bishop or Koniving or I or a dozen other guys could knock together a short, reasonably fair, quirk list for every single Archer variant in ten minutes. Edit the XML file and put the quirks in, then photoshop up an updated quirk graphic and fix the Archer announcement. Announce that these are temporary quirks and that you'll be evaluating the Archer's battlefield performance over the next ninety days so you can determine final quirks (before rescale). Just from what I've seen in this thread, you'll make 80-120$ in sales. That's more than worth the little time it'll take to make the changes I've suggested, and your fixing the worst of the quality control errors and pleasing your fanbase.

For Kerensky's sake, guys, make at least a minimum effort, here. Sheesh.

I bitched about the Kodiak, then caved in and bought it, because well cockpit items yes really
I can't not be having my PHX's even if they turn out lame ( mostly because I want them in the HBS version )

But I'm thinking of asking for money back on the Kodi.

This isn't about balance this is P.G.I urinating on it's customers and then expecting them to pay their wages

cazidin, on 14 March 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

Whatever we do, we mustn't let Russ forget to buff PPCs, LBX, Command Console and now the Archer.

yeah lets complain about it, like we did the archer, and see where it get's us

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 15 March 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

I bitched about the Kodiak, then caved in and bought it, because well cockpit items yes really
I can't not be having my PHX's even if they turn out lame ( mostly because I want them in the HBS version )

But I'm thinking of asking for money back on the Kodi.

This isn't about balance this is P.G.I urinating on it's customers and then expecting them to pay their wages


yeah lets complain about it, like we did the archer, and see where it get's us

Well, Russ already had one guy tweet that the archer is the most amazing meta mech ever, or some such, so that's all the proof needed it's a-ok tier1!

[C E Dwyer]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 March 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

Well, Russ already had one guy tweet that the archer is the most amazing meta mech ever, or some such, so that's all the proof needed it's a-ok tier1!

so we'll see them in comp play in a day or two then lol.
some meta lurm hater spreading lies I guess

Edited by Cathy, 15 March 2016 - 03:12 PM.