125 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Malachy Karrde, on 14 March 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

for me the summoner is mediocre. I've seen people do really well with it though. I don't disparage it because I don't do well with it. You don't see me here begging for quirks for the summoner or timber wolves because I don't do well in them. I don't even want quirks for the dire wolf. I don't even want more speed in it. I think the clan tech as it exists is enough to balance against the inner sphere battlements for the most part. We are never going to have perfect balance and not everyone is going to be good at every chassis.

There is no reason to not make every chassis good. If mechs are bad why are they in game?

Your argument makes no sense because apparently the only reason you are opposed to clan quirks is because you don't feel like adding clan quirks. That's stupid.

And your premises are false. Clan tech is NOT enough to balance against inner sphere battlemechs. We can get MUCH closer to balanced (SEE: mechwarrior living legends) and every chassis in the game CAN be good, if PGI shows it has the balls to MAKE them good rather than just nerfing what is already good. The chances of that happening of course is low, even lower as long as you and your IS fanboy friends keep bitching about how great every clan mech is and how a shadow cat can easily 1v1 even a post-nerf blackjack, and how OP er llas mist lynxes are.

Xavori, on 14 March 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

*sigh*

I DON'T CARE ABOUT <insert mech here> BEING WEAKSAUCE.

I've never once tried to argue that all Clan mechs are OP vs all IS mechs (they are before quirks, but I've never made that argument)

I'm explaining why you don't see piles of quirks on most Clan mechs. CLAN TECH IS BETTER THAN IS TECH. That is not my opinion. That is not anyone's opinion. That is a fact that was intentionally designed into Battletech with the idea that it would be balanced with a bunch of junk about limited resources, manpower, and honor rules...none of which apply in MWO, and hence, PGI had to find some other way to balance.

Again, clan tech is better than IS tech.

And a third time so all of y'all get it....clan tech is better than IS tech.

Now if you want to argue the Mist Lynx is garbage, by all means. For light Clan mechs, I'll prolly never have anything other than arctic cheetahs and the Kitfox KFX-C (hands down best assault escort mech in the game) because I don't have any desire to play Battletech Pokeman and those mechs give me the kind of playstyles I like in lights. Conversely, for IS lights, it's pretty much ravens and spiders for the same reasons. This means I've never even looked at a Mist Lynx or others, let alone whether they're good mechs or not.

/thread.

we're done here

just another is fanboy with his head stuck in his panther 10-p's AC barrel.

You refuse to support quirks for clan mechs because you dont like the clans. No other reason. Don't waste everyone's time lying about it we all know its true. You're perfectly satisfied if every **** clan mech in the game remains **** until the end of time because it doesn't bother you right? **** the clans am i right!? Ruined BT huh?

You guys have a staggering inferiority complex you know.

Edited by pbiggz, 15 March 2016 - 05:00 AM.

[Lugh]

pbiggz, on 15 March 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

There is no reason to not make every chassis good. If mechs are bad why are they in game?

Your argument makes no sense because apparently the only reason you are opposed to clan quirks is because you don't feel like adding clan quirks. That's stupid.

And your premises are false. Clan tech is NOT enough to balance against inner sphere battlemechs. We can get MUCH closer to balanced (SEE: mechwarrior living legends) and every chassis in the game CAN be good, if PGI shows it has the balls to MAKE them good rather than just nerfing what is already good. The chances of that happening of course is low, even lower as long as you and your IS fanboy friends keep bitching about how great every clan mech is and how a shadow cat can easily 1v1 even a post-nerf blackjack, and how OP er llas mist lynxes are.




/thread.

we're done here

just another is fanboy with his head stuck in his panther 10-p's AC barrel.

You refuse to support quirks for clan mechs because you dont like the clans. No other reason. Don't waste everyone's time lying about it we all know its true. You're perfectly satisfied if every **** clan mech in the game remains **** until the end of time because it doesn't bother you right? **** the clans am i right!? Ruined BT huh?

You guys have a staggering inferiority complex you know.

Which is hilarious. I go to an atlas or a Marauder when I need an ego boost with easy kills and high scores.

[Jenovah]

Xavori, on 14 March 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

And it's not me saying Clans are OP. It's me and EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON AT ALL EVEN REMOTELY FAMILIAR WITH THE CLAN INVASION OF BATTLETECH telling you that Clan tech is better than IS tech at the point in the timeline we are at.

This is not a point of debate. Until this thread, I hadn't even entertained the possibility that anyone even thought it wasn't the case.

Clan weapons are better than IS weapons. Deal with it.

Xavori, on 14 March 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

I'm explaining why you don't see piles of quirks on most Clan mechs. CLAN TECH IS BETTER THAN IS TECH. That is not my opinion. That is not anyone's opinion. That is a fact that was intentionally designed into Battletech with the idea that it would be balanced with a bunch of junk about limited resources, manpower, and honor rules...none of which apply in MWO, and hence, PGI had to find some other way to balance.

Again, clan tech is better than IS tech.

And a third time so all of y'all get it....clan tech is better than IS tech.

You keep saying battletech.......... This is not battletech

You keep saying better, we keep saying, "before quirks, and in some cases yes"


Again, this is not battletech, this is PGI, so what relevance does battletech having introduced clans as superior have on what we currently have in MWO.

None.

Go to school kid, take more English/Lit classes to up your reading comprehension.

[Xavori]

pbiggz, on 15 March 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

There is no reason to not make every chassis good. If mechs are bad why are they in game?

Make the Urbie good. Show your work and use examples. No partial credit for incomplete answers.

Quote

You refuse to support quirks for clan mechs because you dont like the clans. No other reason. Don't waste everyone's time lying about it we all know its true. You're perfectly satisfied if every **** clan mech in the game remains **** until the end of time because it doesn't bother you right? **** the clans am i right!? Ruined BT huh?

You guys have a staggering inferiority complex you know.

U haz gotted me. Clan hatred. I haz it.

Nevermind that I started playing as Jade Falcon and will be going to Ghost Bear in May. I totally hate the clans and the only reason I've played / will be playing is because I couldn't get Christian Grey to beat and mistreat me like the rag doll I truly want to be

[Xavori]

Jenovah, on 15 March 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

You keep saying battletech.......... This is not battletech

You keep saying better, we keep saying, "before quirks, and in some cases yes"


Again, this is not battletech, this is PGI, so what relevance does battletech having introduced clans as superior have on what we currently have in MWO.

None.

Go to school kid, take more English/Lit classes to up your reading comprehension.

This has turned into such a fun troll thread.

There is no case in which Clan tech isn't better. That was the defining feature of the Clan Invasion in Battletech THAT MWO IS BASED ON!!!!!!!111!!!1!!eleventy!!!!1!!!1!

Also, I'm pretty sure that nowhere in an English lit class did I ever read about giant stompy robots. Emo teenagers, sure there was plenty of that, but a distinct lack of giant stompy robots.

[Zibmo]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

The MAL-MX90 would like a word with you...

Also, all the IS versions of the IIC mechs called, they lol'ed at your hyperbole.

The only case you might argue would be one circumstance there...

The DW:

If you were positioned in overwatch, on a sendero, with at least 700m+ visibility, and walls funneling the target to prevent leaving the twist range of the DW, with no possible options to flank, and no cover to allow the mech to divert fire, and no way to get a strike on top of the DW on the way in...

Under those conditions, yes, the DW is absolutely better than any IS mech.

Under any other set of conditions...the DW is garbage.

Comp teams leave it behind...why do you think that is?

Too slow. Not bad. Just too slow.

[Gyrok]

Zibmo, on 15 March 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

Too slow. Not bad. Just too slow.

Because Mauler > DW.

That is why.

[nehebkau]

Xavori, on 12 March 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

... and a meaningless duration penalty.

This statement leads me to the realization that you have no understanding of how the game is played and what that meaningless duration penalty actually translates to in game.

[pbiggz]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

Make the Urbie good. Show your work and use examples. No partial credit for incomplete answers.



U haz gotted me. Clan hatred. I haz it.

Nevermind that I started playing as Jade Falcon and will be going to Ghost Bear in May. I totally hate the clans and the only reason I've played / will be playing is because I couldn't get Christian Grey to beat and mistreat me like the rag doll I truly want to be

Urbie?

Remove its engine cap. It goes as fast as other 30 tonners. It is now good. Engine Caps were stupid anyway, its just another GOTCHA moment when new players realize they can't speed up their mech because some nebulous formula states that they can't.

[Bluttrunken]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

IS lasers > Clan lasers.

That's a pretty vague statement. I concur for some like the CERLL, I disagree for CLPL, CERML. Let's not forget Clan has useful Streaks and the CUAC10, lower tonnage and slot costs and superior XL engines(and free C.A.S.E.). PGI should probably consider unnerfing the CERLL and buff IS SL and SPL's but otherwise I think Laser Technology is in a fine place. Low clan performers are already quirked and using the BK as the sole comparison to measure Clan to IS performance is plain wrong. Generally measuring (ephemeral)balance according to one mech is wrong.

Edited by Bluttrunken, 15 March 2016 - 06:26 AM.

[iLLcapitan]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

There is no case in which Clan tech isn't better. That was the defining feature of the Clan Invasion in Battletech THAT MWO IS BASED ON!!!!!!!111!!!1!!eleventy!!!!1!!!1!

Hold your horses and understand what some other players told you already: this isn't BT and the underlying numbers are not the same. While you are still stuck in that thinking, MWO is something completely different and unless you realize that you are wrong on this, you won't make great progress.

[Xavori]

pbiggz, on 15 March 2016 - 06:19 AM, said:

Urbie?

Remove its engine cap. It goes as fast as other 30 tonners. It is now good. Engine Caps were stupid anyway, its just another GOTCHA moment when new players realize they can't speed up their mech because some nebulous formula states that they can't.

It's not a nebulous formula. It's the freakin' Battletech universe that apparently doesn't apply to MWO cuz reasons and stuff.

Anyway, if we had true urban maps with lots of tight corners and places to sneak around, the Urbie's low speed wouldn't matter, and it's 360 torso turn and tiny profile would. Of course, since you can't pick mechs after maps, you would never know when you're getting a good map for your Urbie or when you're going to Polar Highlands...

[Gyrok]

Bluttrunken, on 15 March 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

That's a pretty vague statement. I concur for some like the CERLL, I disagree for CLPL, CERML. Let's not forget Clan has useful Streaks and the CUAC10, lower tonnage and slot costs and superior XL engines(and free C.A.S.E.). PGI should probably consider unnerfing the CERLL and buff IS SL and SPL's but otherwise I think Laser Technology is in a fine place. Low clan performers are already quirked and using the BK as the sole comparison to measure Clan to IS performance is plain wrong. Generally measuring (ephemeral)balance according to one mech is wrong.

IS LPL > CLPL, different functions....sure...but inside IS LPL range, the IS LPL wins that battle full stop.

CERML has had fall off nerfed dramatically...it is now just really hot...pretty much. It is a back up weapon, nothing more.

PGI should buff small and medium lasers across the board, revert the nerfs to clan lasers and give IS their ER versions.

As for CUACs, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! IS ACs are single projectile, even the IS UAC5. IS ACs > CUACs. There is no one honestly debating this point at all. FLD > DoT, no matter how much DoT you bring, you lose trades to FLD.

IS has superior structure quirks, which means their inferior XL engine stays alive considerably longer than CXL engines without added structure. Also, since CXLs have to lose a ST before they die, the IS XL mechs with structure quirks do not have to deal with getting shot with a hot glue gun where they lose 20% speed, and start picking up 20% heat.

Ask me if I would rather play clans or IS right now as a clansmen. If you see me on the field of battle, you can bet it will most likely be in a WHM.

Edited by Gyrok, 15 March 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[pbiggz]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

It's not a nebulous formula. It's the freakin' Battletech universe that apparently doesn't apply to MWO cuz reasons and stuff.

Anyway, if we had true urban maps with lots of tight corners and places to sneak around, the Urbie's low speed wouldn't matter, and it's 360 torso turn and tiny profile would. Of course, since you can't pick mechs after maps, you would never know when you're getting a good map for your Urbie or when you're going to Polar Highlands...

I don't believe BT had engine caps. My point still stands even if it did, but you're right of course. It doesn't apply to MWO for the simple reason that table top values and balancing can never translate to a real time game. You take from TT the spirit of the game. You understand what the mechs and weapons are meant to do, then you make them do it in your own way, because a remarkable amount of TT is lost in translation when you try to jam those values into a real time shooter.

[Deathlike]

Xavori, on 14 March 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

*sigh*

I DON'T CARE ABOUT <insert mech here> BEING WEAKSAUCE.

I've never once tried to argue that all Clan mechs are OP vs all IS mechs (they are before quirks, but I've never made that argument)

I'm explaining why you don't see piles of quirks on most Clan mechs. CLAN TECH IS BETTER THAN IS TECH. That is not my opinion. That is not anyone's opinion. That is a fact that was intentionally designed into Battletech with the idea that it would be balanced with a bunch of junk about limited resources, manpower, and honor rules...none of which apply in MWO, and hence, PGI had to find some other way to balance.

Again, clan tech is better than IS tech.

And a third time so all of y'all get it....clan tech is better than IS tech.

Now if you want to argue the Mist Lynx is garbage, by all means. For light Clan mechs, I'll prolly never have anything other than arctic cheetahs and the Kitfox KFX-C (hands down best assault escort mech in the game) because I don't have any desire to play Battletech Pokeman and those mechs give me the kind of playstyles I like in lights. Conversely, for IS lights, it's pretty much ravens and spiders for the same reasons. This means I've never even looked at a Mist Lynx or others, let alone whether they're good mechs or not.

You haven't spend enough time to make a proper determination of whether Clan quirks are deserved or even warranted.

There's a reason why CERLL is not popular in general... only used in a niche instance (only for sniping) and why IS LPL/MPL is exceptional for brawling. That doesn't mean the CMPL or CSPL is chop liver... some people continue to not know how powerful they are.

To say it is definitively better is offputting because you didn't even provide a thorough argument. Sure there are some parts of the Clan Tech that is very much a straight upgrade (Clan XL for tonnage savings/survivability over IS XL insta-side torso death, Endo/FF for crit slot usage, and currently no IS Streaks above SSRM2s - which are simply just missing/not available to begin with). Then again, there are still issues with Clan Tech (mostly on the omnimech portion) that don't save bad mechs.



If you like holding on to TT/BT to your dear heart AND NOT about the fact that this is a video game, you have actual problems trying to actually cite real instances and examples to your actual arguments, and furthermore your ignorance to the matter only shows how little you understand about the game.

If you want a discussion or debate, then use good arguments. If you want to rant, you're only proving that you've said more than you should to disprove your intelligence.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 March 2016 - 08:06 AM.

[Xavori]

nehebkau, on 15 March 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

This statement leads me to the realization that you have no understanding of how the game is played and what that meaningless duration penalty actually translates to in game.

Meaningless because its less time than it takes to blink your eye...1.5 duration vs 1.25 for ER large lasers.

Quirked pushes that down 10-20% which of course pushes the DPS up making it a better sustained brawling weapon on energy quirked IS mechs....but still a lower alpha damage weapon than Clan mechs (you can do the math, I'll even give you a hint that to get the DPS somehow involves .66 for Clan and .8 for IS) which I've said this ENTIRE FREAKING TIME because I not only do understand how the game is played, and I'm also really good at math.

[Gyrok]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

because I not only do understand how the game is played, and I'm also really good at math.

Clearly you do not understand.

Let us play a game shall we?

Ok, you round a corner in a 4 ERLL build with a 44 alpha that takes at minimum 2.0 seconds to deliver a full alpha because ghost heat.

Now...there are 3 IS mechs standing around that corner.

The first one, is a misery with AC20 + PPCs, if you try to shoot him, you lose your trade, his 40 damage hits your ST, and you shoot his shield side burning your name into the side of his mech with your "uber l33t" lightsabers and he gets back into cover in 1 second meaning you did basically 22 damage compared to 40.

The second one is a BK with 3LPL + 5ML, if you try to shoot him, he will hit you for 58 damage to your ST and twist away, and probably get back into cover across the map (even on polar highlands) before you manage to get your 44 damage sprayed onto 6 different components on his mech. Even if he takes full burn, you took 58 damage to the 44 he got, and he likely took significantly less because cover is not far away, and his burn is only ~0.6 seconds, meaning you probably got about 12-13 damage on target, while he got 58.

The last mech is a Mauler with 4 LBX10s, and while you can get your damage onto him because he also has to stare...his ~22 DPS sustained and native structure quirks are way better than your ~10 DPS burst and limited up time with no structure quirks. Besides, he can alpha and twist away soaking most, if not all, of your 44 damage in his arm. Worst case, you play "stare into the sun", and by the time you have done 44 damage, and your weapons have come back from cool down, he has done 120 damage. Want to keep staring?

Get the picture yet kid?

Edited by Gyrok, 15 March 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[nehebkau]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Meaningless because its less time than it takes to blink your eye...1.5 duration vs 1.25 for ER large lasers.

Quirked pushes that down 10-20% which of course pushes the DPS up making it a better sustained brawling weapon on energy quirked IS mechs....but still a lower alpha damage weapon than Clan mechs (you can do the math, I'll even give you a hint that to get the DPS somehow involves .66 for Clan and .8 for IS) which I've said this ENTIRE FREAKING TIME because I not only do understand how the game is played, and I'm also really good at math.

Again,
You answer does not address the true problem with the beam duration and again demonstrates that you really don't understand the advanced mechanics of the game.

And no, I am not going to tell you.

[Jenovah]

Xavori, on 15 March 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

This has turned into such a fun troll thread.

There is no case in which Clan tech isn't better. That was the defining feature of the Clan Invasion in Battletech THAT MWO IS BASED ON!!!!!!!111!!!1!!eleventy!!!!1!!!1!

Also, I'm pretty sure that nowhere in an English lit class did I ever read about giant stompy robots. Emo teenagers, sure there was plenty of that, but a distinct lack of giant stompy robots.

Of course, I forgot, your reading comprehension is low...

Take some classes to increase it, kid, you'll do better in life.

[Xavori]

Gyrok, on 15 March 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

Clearly you do not understand.

Let us play a game shall we?

Ok, you round a corner in a 4 ERLL build with a 44 alpha that takes at minimum 2.0 seconds to deliver a full alpha because ghost heat.

Now...there are 3 IS mechs standing around that corner.

This is where I stopped reading because you're making a totally spurious argument.

If I was in an Atlas, Black Knight, Warhammer, Your Mom's Crusty Undies, whatever, I turn the corner and see three Clan mechs I'm so much slag, or at least I should be.

I'm loving this thread btw...nothing but Clan players trying to scream foul about the fact that I'm honest that Clan tech is better than IS tech, and IT IS BETTER BECAUSE BATTLETECH SAID SO, NOT PGI which means the Battletech doesn't matter nonsense is just as ridiculous as all the other OhWoeIsWeClambakers arguments that totally fail at math, reality, and prolly figuring out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.