125 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Which kinda is my point.

You can balance weapons and equipment between IS and Clans by giving IS quirks.

You cannot really balance mech hitboxes, hardpoints, etc. with quirks without introducing serious power creep.

False. Locust 1E is now much more competitive with other Lights...but is still not considered top-tier.

[Paigan]

Xavori, on 12 March 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

[...]
The problem should be painfully obvious. The clan version does more damage with better range and has only a small heat penalty and a meaningless duration penalty. You can't have an online game where things are that out of balance and expect people to play anything but the good stuff.
[...]

It is hilariously painfully obvious that you don't know what "asymmetric balance" is.

Look at StarCraft, for example. A Zealot (protoss basic melee unit) is worth 4 Zerglings (Zerg basic melee unit), yet the game is very well balanced. Magic?! No, asymmetric balance.

BT is "normally" balanced in a similar fashion: Clan Tech is OP, but IS are more in numbers, are not bound by rigid tactical rules, play mean, etc.
To a certain degree, this could be very well projected into MWO, one just has to be a little intelligent and creative (I decribed it in many threads, I won't repeat it here)

So I suggest before you make such extreme (and borderline insulting) statements, better think twice.

Edited by Paigan, 13 March 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[Xavori]

Paigan, on 13 March 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

So I suggest before you make such extreme (and borderline insulting) statements, better think twice.

If you take insult from my explanation, you're reading things that aren't there, or are a poo flinging monkey who was upset that I besmirched your honor by linking you to the hot mess that was the Clan Invasion in Battletech.. I really did offer up nothing more than an explanation why there aren't many quirks on Clan Battlemechs.

As for assymetric balance, yes. You could pull that off differently in CW, but not in Quick Play. Without quirks, nobody would run IS mechs in quickplay because you'd be at a huge disadvantage.

[Sader325]

Wait...

Are you trying to say clan ER-L is good?

[Gyrok]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

If you take insult from my explanation, you're reading things that aren't there, or are a poo flinging monkey who was upset that I besmirched your honor by linking you to the hot mess that was the Clan Invasion in Battletech.. I really did offer up nothing more than an explanation why there aren't many quirks on Clan Battlemechs.

As for assymetric balance, yes. You could pull that off differently in CW, but not in Quick Play. Without quirks, nobody would run IS mechs in quickplay because you'd be at a huge disadvantage.

Quick play would require you to be grouped with same tech tree only in solo queue. So always either IS vs IS, Clans vs IS, or Clans vs Clans.

Group queue would require such restrictions on groups as well.

[Xavori]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Quick play would require you to be grouped with same tech tree only in solo queue. So always either IS vs IS, Clans vs IS, or Clans vs Clans.

Group queue would require such restrictions on groups as well.

And there aren't enough players to make splitting the queues like that viable. You'd greatly increase wait times, and that's bad business.

[Xavori]

Sader325, on 13 March 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

Wait...

Are you trying to say clan ER-L is good?

I wish I could have recorded the Boreal Vault CW match I was just in that would show you just how much of an advantage Clan tech has in ranged battles. It was brutally one-sided...

[Gyrok]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

And there aren't enough players to make splitting the queues like that viable. You'd greatly increase wait times, and that's bad business.

This is a token statement to shoot down creative ideas.

You have no evidence it would have any effect whatsoever, and even if it did, it would be negligible.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

Quick play would require you to be grouped with same tech tree only in solo queue. So always either IS vs IS, Clans vs IS, or Clans vs Clans.

Group queue would require such restrictions on groups as well.

Splitting quene is not even necessary. For asymmetrical balance IS can have 2 drops for quick plays.

[Jackal Noble]

Troll post is trolling hard. Try an ebon jaguar more than once and see how that absence of structure treats Ya after a 45 ton "reduced" structure 6 mpl blackjack cores you in two alphas flat while your 5 mpl, 1 lpl "superior" clan teh-ch alpha manages to make him check for a breeze. Ya nope.

I'm just gonna play whatever is fun for me but there is no way you're going to convince me or anyone in their right mind that structure quirks, which in some cases give 1/2 to 1/3 more hp, as well as acts as a second lease on components, levels the game and makes it fair vs nonquirked. Helll na

[Curccu]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

If someone buys me the highlander pack, I'll take this challenge, level it up and post screen shots of match scores etc. I bet I can get it to operate as well as a Warhawk.

Warhawk is way better than IIC highlander.

[Xavori]

JackalBeast, on 13 March 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Troll post is trolling hard. Try an ebon jaguar more than once and see how that absence of structure treats Ya after a 45 ton "reduced" structure 6 mpl blackjack cores you in two alphas flat while your 5 mpl, 1 lpl "superior" clan teh-ch alpha manages to make him check for a breeze. Ya nope.

I'm just gonna play whatever is fun for me but there is no way you're going to convince me or anyone in their right mind that structure quirks, which in some cases give 1/2 to 1/3 more hp, as well as acts as a second lease on components, levels the game and makes it fair vs nonquirked. Helll na

Wait. You're telling me that a weapons boat mech like the Ebon Jaguar can't tank? NO WAI!!!

Guess what, sparky. Rifleman can't tank either. Nor can the Thunderbolt, Banshee, Victor, etc.

Guess what can tank for Clans. Timberwolves, Direwolves (as long as someone guards their backside from lights), Warhawks, and so on.

Claiming that a specific mech can't do something is a pointless argument because practically every time, it's not supposed to. We're not playing Jack-of-All-Trades Online.

[Gyrok]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Wait. You're telling me that a weapons boat mech like the Ebon Jaguar can't tank? NO WAI!!!

Guess what, sparky. Rifleman can't tank either. Nor can the Thunderbolt, Banshee, Victor, etc.

Guess what can tank for Clans. Timberwolves, Direwolves (as long as someone guards their backside from lights), Warhawks, and so on.

Claiming that a specific mech can't do something is a pointless argument because practically every time, it's not supposed to. We're not playing Jack-of-All-Trades Online.

1.) Banshee can tank like a pro...so can BLR/BK/WHM/MAD/TDR/HBK/STK

2.) There are no clan Tanks...not sure what you are smoking...but you need to get some better schwag...because that stuff is killing your brain cells too fast if you think clan mechs can "tank".

3.) You claim clans are "jack-of-all-trades" online...and you ignore their flaws and pretend they do not exist.

LESSON:

Clans do not tank at all. Clans play pokey pokey, snipey snipey from 600m+, or they die in a furball getting their CT blown out by an IS heavy with a 60 pt energy lolpha that gets tossed around 2-3 times before shutdown.

There are no real clan "brawlers", there are clan mechs that load up a splat build and die in a fire when they get in range of IS brawlers...

[Malachy Karrde]

Curccu, on 13 March 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Warhawk is way better than IIC highlander.

I'm willing to bet I can make a 2c highlander equally effective as a warhawk. Normally, I'd buy the pack and be done but while we are calving, my wife is running the finances and she will get really pissed off if I buy another mech pack right now. [I work for a ranch here in Nebraska lol the next two months I'm horseback 12 hours a day but I get to play on nights where I do night checks)

[Malachy Karrde]

Gyrok, on 13 March 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

1.) Banshee can tank like a pro...so can BLR/BK/WHM/MAD/TDR/HBK/STK

2.) There are no clan Tanks...not sure what you are smoking...but you need to get some better schwag...because that stuff is killing your brain cells too fast if you think clan mechs can "tank".

3.) You claim clans are "jack-of-all-trades" online...and you ignore their flaws and pretend they do not exist.

LESSON:

Clans do not tank at all. Clans play pokey pokey, snipey snipey from 600m+, or they die in a furball getting their CT blown out by an IS heavy with a 60 pt energy lolpha that gets tossed around 2-3 times before shutdown.

There are no real clan "brawlers", there are clan mechs that load up a splat build and die in a fire when they get in range of IS brawlers...

I disagree with quite a bit of your post...hell the whole thing. Clans have plenty of tanks but they tank differently than the stravag spheroid free birth trash mechs. I tank all the time in my warhawk at short range and it can soak up an incredible amount of damage. I also end up tanking a lot in my dire wolf, but it's different than an atlas. With the direwolf, you use your awesome firepower to kill the enemy tanks before they get close enough to be more than an eyesore. You see, clan mechs are designed to kill everyone else before the is can bring them to range. Clan mech on table top, in mwo, and in the books were always about long range combat. Even in the books, the is had only one advantage, close range combat made them sort of on part with the clans. At range, even in mwo, not a single is assault or heavy can stand up to their clan counterparts. The trouble we have in mwo, is that people only want to play a short range game and the majority don't know how to make effective use of clan weaponry. Those of us who do, don't have any problems on the battlefield.

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 13 March 2016 - 02:25 PM.

[Xavori]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

I'm willing to bet I can make a 2c highlander equally effective as a warhawk. Normally, I'd buy the pack and be done but while we are calving, my wife is running the finances and she will get really pissed off if I buy another mech pack right now. [I work for a ranch here in Nebraska lol the next two months I'm horseback 12 hours a day but I get to play on nights where I do night checks)

See, in my case I've already got the Kodiak pre-ordered. I'm going to switch to Clan Ghost Bear when it comes out. I expect the Kodiak to have no quirks.

Instead, I expect the Kodiak is going to be a pile-o-damage-that-leaves-my-enemy-as-slag as my armor, not any quirks or such.

Kinda like how I play the Rifleman

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

I disagree with quite a bit of your post...hell the whole thing. Clans have plenty of tanks but they tank differently than the stratagem spheroid free birth trash mechs. I tank all the time in my warhawk and it can soak up an incredible amount of damage. I also end up tanking a lot in my dire wolf, but it's different than an atlas. With the direwolf, you use your awesome firepower to kill the enemy tanks before they get close enough. You see, clan mechs are designed to kill everyone else before the is can bring them to range. Clan mech on table top, in mwo, and in the books were always about long range combat. Even in the books, the is had only one advantage, close range combat made them sort of on part with the clans. At range, even in mwo, not a single is assault or heavy can stand up to their clan counterparts. The trouble we have in mwo, is that people only want to play a short range game and the majority don't know how to make effective use of clan weaponry. Those of us who do, don't have any problems on the battlefield.

Which brings me back to the disaster in CW that was the match we played on Boreal Vault this morning. So many blue lasers flashing at us trying to defend the base. You couldn't freakin' move without sacrificing all the armor in one of your mech sections, and the next time you tried to move, you lost that bit of your mech. It was just a slaughter.

On the other hand, the Hellbore Canyon matches where you have great big cliffs to hide behind went a lot better because you just have to have patience to make them come to you.

[Vlad Striker]

Quote

You're telling me that a weapons boat mech like the Ebon Jaguar can't tank?

Yes it can't. This mech is a glass cannon. Try to play ~100 rounds on each of chassis and you'll learn.

[Malachy Karrde]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

See, in my case I've already got the Kodiak pre-ordered. I'm going to switch to Clan Ghost Bear when it comes out. I expect the Kodiak to have no quirks.

Instead, I expect the Kodiak is going to be a pile-o-damage-that-leaves-my-enemy-as-slag as my armor, not any quirks or such.

Kinda like how I play the Rifleman



Which brings me back to the disaster in CW that was the match we played on Boreal Vault this morning. So many blue lasers flashing at us trying to defend the base. You couldn't freakin' move without sacrificing all the armor in one of your mech sections, and the next time you tried to move, you lost that bit of your mech. It was just a slaughter.

On the other hand, the Hellbore Canyon matches where you have great big cliffs to hide behind went a lot better because you just have to have patience to make them come to you.

I'm expecting the Kodiak to be on par with the 2c mechs. I think in the hands of a few it will be effective, but for the most part it will be considered a dismal failure. I didn't buy it tbh...I don't think it will be able to do much more than either my warhawk or my dire wolf. I think the whale will have superior firepower for the builds I prefer, and the warhawk will be more mobile/maneuverable.

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 13 March 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Gyrok]

Malachy Karrde, on 13 March 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

I disagree with quite a bit of your post...hell the whole thing. Clans have plenty of tanks but they tank differently than the stravag spheroid free birth trash mechs. I tank all the time in my warhawk at short range and it can soak up an incredible amount of damage. I also end up tanking a lot in my dire wolf, but it's different than an atlas. With the direwolf, you use your awesome firepower to kill the enemy tanks before they get close enough to be more than an eyesore. You see, clan mechs are designed to kill everyone else before the is can bring them to range. Clan mech on table top, in mwo, and in the books were always about long range combat. Even in the books, the is had only one advantage, close range combat made them sort of on part with the clans. At range, even in mwo, not a single is assault or heavy can stand up to their clan counterparts. The trouble we have in mwo, is that people only want to play a short range game and the majority don't know how to make effective use of clan weaponry. Those of us who do, don't have any problems on the battlefield.

The MAL-MX90 would like a word with you...

Also, all the IS versions of the IIC mechs called, they lol'ed at your hyperbole.

The only case you might argue would be one circumstance there...

The DW:

If you were positioned in overwatch, on a sendero, with at least 700m+ visibility, and walls funneling the target to prevent leaving the twist range of the DW, with no possible options to flank, and no cover to allow the mech to divert fire, and no way to get a strike on top of the DW on the way in...

Under those conditions, yes, the DW is absolutely better than any IS mech.

Under any other set of conditions...the DW is garbage.

Comp teams leave it behind...why do you think that is?

[Malachy Karrde]

Gyrok, grab any IS assault mech you want, and I'll go 1 on 1 with you in my whale. Please grab the mauler I've used the dire for a long time. Just because you can't make it work, doesn't mean it doesn't. I've never encountered a situation where the Dire could not remain competitive. I've got over 900 matches across 3 different dire chassis and that's not counting cw or so called "competitive" play. So really, please put up or shut up. best of 3, no load out changes between matches.

Edited by Malachy Karrde, 13 March 2016 - 02:44 PM.