144 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Jables McBarty, on 16 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

The two basic stances here are:
1. I like big bewbs, give me big bewbs on my pilot model #pgipls
2. Women and men are physiologically different, pilot models should reflect that in a realistic, non-objectifying way.

People who are advocating #1 have either (a) never interacted with a woman they have not wanted to sleep* with or (b] think they are being funny but, given the nature of Internet sarcasm are giving the message that 1 is an acceptable stance for an adult to hold.

I think you can be both #1 and #2. You just have to understand that there is a time and place for each one. MWO is neither the time nor place for #1.

Skyrim on the other hand? Go for it, I've personally used the CBBE body and all the little sexy armor mods. I've also used all the realistic armor mods entirely doing away with the fantasy armor entirely in it (that means that hideous 'steel' armor is replaced by a maille hauberk, orcish looks more like Uruk armor, the Imperials is straight Roman Lorica, etc). I've used thousands of mods just to horse around and have fun with in the game. It's a sandbox.

In a game like MWO, though, that strives to keep a foot in realism, we need to look at #2. Also, because it's a multiplayer game there does need to be a limit set and I think PGI should leave that limit in reality. People can do whatever they please in their singleplayer games, just not their MP games unless it's like TERA, built from the ground up to be... that...

[NoiseCrypt]

Kaeb Odellas, on 15 March 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

The soft Kevlar armor worn by regular beat cops and security guards might be flexible, but the armor plates soldiers use certainly isn't. Even then, Kevlar does a bang up job of hiding a female soldier's womanly charms.



See? She's completely indistinguishable from a man from the neck down. I don't think she's even wearing plates in that vest.

Sorry... her nails betrays her...

[MechWarrior3671771]

The irony is that pic is pulled from an article about how the military is custom-designing body armor to better fit the female form. She is modelling one of the new designs created specifically for women.

[Kaeb Odellas]

NoiseCrypt, on 16 March 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Sorry... her nails betrays her...

I've seen plenty of dudes with nails like that.

[NoiseCrypt]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 March 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I've seen plenty of dudes with nails like that.

In full combat armor

[NoiseCrypt]

Fen Tetsudo, on 16 March 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

The irony is that pic is pulled from an article about how the military is custom-designing body armor to better fit the female form. She is modelling one of the new designs created specifically for women.

No, that is just a fact. You brought the irony which is that even custom female armor show no female attributes....

[Johnny Z]

Jables McBarty, on 16 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

I thought I was agreeing with you on that skyrim point...?

As for the "I am only posting here because I need to prove I am not a sexist" argument, that sounds pretty solipsistic to be honest. Actions stem from ideas, ideas are formed through dialogue, and if the dialogue is dominated by people who are objectifying women and only one or two people object to that, then it appears to be acceptable to objectify women. That is why I at least comment on this thread.

The two basic stances here are:
1. I like big bewbs, give me big bewbs on my pilot model #pgipls
2. Women and men are physiologically different, pilot models should reflect that in a realistic, non-objectifying way.

People who are advocating #1 have either (a) never interacted with a woman they have not wanted to sleep* with or (b] think they are being funny but, given the nature of Internet sarcasm are giving the message that 1 is an acceptable stance for an adult to hold.

I had been under the impression that you were in camp #2 and was quoting you as a reference.



*For example, yourself (if you are a woman), a mother, sister, aunt, grandmother, female cousin, a female friend, a boss, coworker, the woman at the post office, etc.

This isn't about real women its a video game.

Of course there shouldn't be offensive stuff even if it is a video game.

But really this is a huge subject having to do with what is acceptable or not in a video game. So its not about real people. So players are making some funny comments. Trying to have a bit of fun. Not everything has to be high drama.

But to the topic, is it acceptable how GTA 5 went about adding the fairer sex to their game? I haven't played that game but I have heard. Or what about many MMORPG's, have they gone about it the right way?

I think the model in game at this very moment is ok. It would most likely be fair to offer a variety for each player to choose from eventually.

So should some body types be banned? I don't think so.

When it comes to clothing I think anything that would be realistic for the MechWarrior Universe is fine. Anyone think that's uncool?

Last of all this is nothing because no one even looks at the pilot model. But if they add character creation then it may be an issue.

I know as a player I like to have a character that looks as much like me as possible because its more fun that way. I think that's quite common to.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 March 2016 - 10:52 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

All jokes aside, this thread is entirely obsolete. We should just link to the Star Citizen female armor discussion that has raged for years, burning hotter than the sun, with literally thousands of posts on the official SC forums, if not tens of thousands. There is no boob-argument in this thread that has not been scrutinized as much as a peer-reviewed Ph.D. in the SC female armour threads.

[Aresye]

Johnny Z, on 16 March 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

This isn't about real women its a video game.

It's about giving real women the option to choose a player character that aligns with their own sex, while affording them the same level of modesty and features as the male player's character.

FFS, listening to some people's opinions here is about as cringe worthy as reading a love scene in a BattleTech novel.

[ReverseBurgler]

this thread is seriously unreal.

7 pages of dudes arguing over female gear and then some more people arguing about the lore. i wonder if anyone told all the 40+ year old men in this thread that they can just google "boobs" or stop playing battletech in the basement and maybe pay attention to their (possible) spouses.

top kek

Edited by ReverseBurgler, 16 March 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Lugh]

Aresye, on 16 March 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

It's about giving real women the option to choose a player character that aligns with their own sex, while affording them the same level of modesty and features as the male player's character.

FFS, listening to some people's opinions here is about as cringe worthy as reading a love scene in a BattleTech novel.

And they came together docking collar to docking collar, waste chutes barely covered in a barely clad frenzy of ....

[Damia Savon]

Imperius, on 15 March 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Please close this thread...

Can we get your madcap thread closed? No? Alright then....

[Johnny Z]

Aresye, on 16 March 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

It's about giving real women the option to choose a player character that aligns with their own sex, while affording them the same level of modesty and features as the male player's character.

FFS, listening to some people's opinions here is about as cringe worthy as reading a love scene in a BattleTech novel.

I have been far from politically correct or maybe even polite in this topic to.

But really this is a huge subject involving the entire game industry. Maybe someone is out of shape and wants to play a character in great shape and run around that way for a while. Maybe someone cant walk and enjoys walking in a video game. Maybe someone cant go into the future and pilot giant robots but likes doing that in video games...

[wanderer]

Quote

I'm sorry, but isn't the real issue here that we should have Tetatae pilot models?

This. How are we supposed to have the ancient prophesied coming of the Goons without it?

[Imperius]

Damia Savon, on 16 March 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

Can we get your madcap thread closed? No? Alright then....

My Mad Cat MK II thread is about MWO not some crappy Twitter movement started by a Feminist that doesn't even play games.

This thread was made just to stir the pot because someone got bored and was looking to start drama.

Aresye, on 16 March 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

It's about giving real women the option to choose a player character that aligns with their own sex, while affording them the same level of modesty and features as the male player's character.

FFS, listening to some people's opinions here is about as cringe worthy as reading a love scene in a BattleTech novel.

What tells you the pilot is a guy?

[Johnny Z]

Imperius, on 16 March 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

My Mad Cat MK II thread is about MWO not some crappy Twitter movement started by a Feminist that doesn't even play games.

This thread was made just to stir the pot because someone got bored and was looking to start drama.


What tells you the pilot is a guy?

Its a good topic if they ever add character creation though.

I basically had no interest in playing the witcher 3 and still don't because it had no character creation. Among other missing features.


Where as the Fallout series has great character customization options if the construction kit is included.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 March 2016 - 11:33 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

Johnny Z, on 16 March 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

This isn't about real women its a video game.

Of course there shouldn't be offensive stuff even if it is a video game.

But really this is a huge subject having to do with what is acceptable or not in a video game. So its not about real people. So players are making some funny comments. Trying to have a bit of fun. Not everything has to be high drama.

But to the topic, is it acceptable how GTA 5 went about adding the fairer sex to their game? I haven't played that game but I have heard. Or what about many MMORPG's, have they gone about it the right way?

I think the model in game at this very moment is ok. It would most likely be fair to offer a variety for each player to choose from eventually.

So should some body types be banned? I don't think so.

When it comes to clothing I think anything that would be realistic for the MechWarrior Universe is fine. Anyone think that's uncool?

Last of all this is nothing because no one even looks at the pilot model. But if they add character creation then it may be an issue.

I know as a player I like to have a character that looks as much like me as possible because its more fun that way. I think that's quite common to.

[Incoming: Wall of Text]

I’m sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with this stance. All fiction—including video games—is part of our intellectual reality. Film producers argue that they don’t have to be historically accurate because “it’s just fiction”—but if the majority of viewers interact with 13^th Century Scotland via Braveheart, or ancient Rome via Gladiator, they are walking away from those movies with a set of very inaccurate impressions, which they will likely carry to the grave unless they do a lot of reading.

I think it is widely accepted that the MWO community is predominantly older and male, but we still have younger players. If a young male reader browses the forums and gets the impression that adult males are allowed to objectify women, however jokingly, online, then that will affect how he approaches women in real life. Sexual assault is rampant on college campuses and in the military. When that young male ForumWarrior enlists or goes away to college, how will he treat his female compatriots? What role might you* have played in the development of his attitude?

On a less serious level, I think that these attitudes are bad for the growth of the player base. Based on the VOIP comments I hear, some 90% of players are male. If that’s an accurate accounting, then imagine if we could get that number to only 50%? How much bigger would our player base be? I’d rather female players feel welcome and invite their friends to play than to have them visit the forums once or twice and see this kind of thread, feel uncomfortable, and leave for something else.

I cannot speak to games that I have not played—and I tend to go from one in-depth obsession to another (Morrowind > Skyrim > Civ V > Europa Univeralis IV > Dota 2 > MWO covers the last decade of my gaming career)—so this is a large number, but I think the question of responsibility extends to all games. I also feel uncomfortable about the women in Skyrim (recently bought it on Steam after not playing it since release) and in Dota, and I see this as a huge opportunity for a responsible game developer to make a big step in the right direction.

I do agree that there should be a variety of bodies represented, but I also want to reiterate that I want them to be realistic and respectful (which might also be your point).

*EDIT: "or videogames"

Edited by Jables McBarty, 16 March 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[Hillslam]

Hey lets be fair:

Boob and crotch size slider controls in the options panel.

BULGES FOR EVERYONE

[Johnny Z]

Jables McBarty, on 16 March 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

[Incoming: Wall of Text]

I’m sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with this stance. All fiction—including video games—is part of our intellectual reality. Film producers argue that they don’t have to be historically accurate because “it’s just fiction”—but if the majority of viewers interact with 13^th Century Scotland via Braveheart, or ancient Rome via Gladiator, they are walking away from those movies with a set of very inaccurate impressions, which they will likely carry to the grave unless they do a lot of reading.

I think it is widely accepted that the MWO community is predominantly older and male, but we still have younger players. If a young male reader browses the forums and gets the impression that adult males are allowed to objectify women, however jokingly, online, then that will affect how he approaches women in real life. Sexual assault is rampant on college campuses and in the military. When that young male ForumWarrior enlists or goes away to college, how will he treat his female compatriots? What role might you have played in the development of his attitude?

On a less serious level, I think that these attitudes are bad for the growth of the player base. Based on the VOIP comments I hear, some 90% of players are male. If that’s an accurate accounting, then imagine if we could get that number to only 50%? How much bigger would our player base be? I’d rather female players feel welcome and invite their friends to play than to have them visit the forums once or twice and see this kind of thread, feel uncomfortable, and leave for something else.

I cannot speak to games that I have not played—and I tend to go from one in-depth obsession to another (Morrowind > Skyrim > Civ V > Europa Univeralis IV > Dota 2 > MWO covers the last decade of my gaming career)—so this is a large number, but I think the question of responsibility extends to all games. I also feel uncomfortable about the women in Skyrim (recently bought it on Steam after not playing it since release) and in Dota, and I see this as a huge opportunity for a responsible game developer to make a big step in the right direction.

I do agree that there should be a variety of bodies represented, but I also want to reiterate that I want them to be realistic and respectful (which might also be your point).

Ok sure.

But if I was going to get dressed as a pilot in a video game this is would be the best way. Filmed in Vancouver as far as I know.



Maybe to much to ask or maybe to much of a guy thing?

[Aresye]

Imperius, on 16 March 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

What tells you the pilot is a guy?

From what we can see, pretty much only the hips, thighs, and larger hands. I would imagine the female pilot model having wider hips, narrower shoulders, smaller hands, some uniform/color differences, and likely a minor enlargement of the chest.

Jables McBarty, on 16 March 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

On a less serious level, I think that these attitudes are bad for the growth of the player base. Based on the VOIP comments I hear, some 90% of players are male. If that’s an accurate accounting, then imagine if we could get that number to only 50%? How much bigger would our player base be? I’d rather female players feel welcome and invite their friends to play than to have them visit the forums once or twice and see this kind of thread, feel uncomfortable, and leave for something else.

One of the female players in my old unit told me she tries to avoid VOIP in solo queue, and will sometimes use a voice changer, simply because of all the crap other players will give her just because she's a girl.

Edited by Aresye, 16 March 2016 - 11:54 AM.