106 replies to this topic

[PraetorGix]

MovinTarget, on 21 March 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Sorry, but I would pick a Hellbringer over a Tempest if I had to choose a mech for winning.

Every.single.time.

And following your very own logic, I would choose an Oxide or a Cheetah over a Jenner IIC for winning.

Every.single.time.

So; now I could say to you that you are not capable of taking advantage of the Archer's existing potential...
But, Archers get a Buff, IICs don't. Even if they are bound by exactly the same logic and reasoning.

[MovinTarget]

PraetorGix, on 21 March 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Wow so intelligent, I will bend over to your superior persuasion skills! I am completely and utterly wrong and I am ashamed..

Listen Einstein, if you take the time to actually read, I'm not saying my money is better than anyone else's. Im saying it's EQUALLY GOOD. So, if an Archer buyer gets to receive much needed buffs in a reasonable amount of time, the IICs I got should get just the same. Or maybe should I say, f*ck Archer quirks, the problem is people not knowing "how to take advantage of its existing potential"? If some people do fine in IICs then a buff is out of the question, but if people do bad in an Archer the obvious solution is buffing it? Nah sorry but I don't see the logic in that. What makes your point valid and mine fallacious? Only your own skewed opinion. And unlike you, I am not against buffed Archers, I am against something that is not just.

I am only pointing out that your lack of success with the jenner may not be the fault of the mech itself. Before you get defensive, I am not trying to say you are a bad pilot, simply that it might not play to your strengths. As I conceded in my own posts, there are lots of mechs I've purchased that I don't use now because I've found them not compatible to my playstyle; Mechs that have existed much longer than the relatively new IIc mechs and are still "useless" in my hands.

My only caution is that to buff the Jenner simply to make it play better for those that have difficulty with it will make it a monster in the hands of those that can already do so.

So my point is cautioning "it that what you really want?" because it will become the next ACH overpowered uber mech that everyone was complaining about... exactly what they are trying to avoid.

I'm not the only one that feels that way, just like you are not the only one to feel the way you do. The only reason I got testy was because you wholly dismissed contrary arguments that didn't align with your experience. While I can commiserate with your position, I cannot agree this mech needs buffing. More specifically, the all-missile and all energy variants do not need buffing because of their combination of speed and power, the other two I don't play because they don't suit my style.

I get it, you paid cash money and it didn't pan out the way you expected. I bet you there are people in this game that blew a lot more than $20 on mechs that feel butthurt buyers remorse.

I even offered builds I found effective in hopes that maybe you'd give them a try, but I can't help you if you don't ask for help nor play to the mech's strengths.

Calvyr, on 21 March 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

What I meant is that it's not very helpful when it happens in the middle of a fight, like in the situation I described. And while a match is getting ready to start, I'm not thinking about whether I need to check if my mouse cursor is bound to the window.



I can't see how that would help, since it would just focus to the desktop. Same result, dead mech.

I used to have this same problem but I now play in windowed mode and minimize other windows when the match begins, since doing this I've not had the problem.

I also minimize my alt-f4'ing...

Now if they do fix that issue (I've experienced it before Clan Wave One came out), I'll be a happy camper... other than I am too set in my ways, lol

Edited by MovinTarget, 21 March 2016 - 06:53 PM.

[K19]

With so much to get and the only thing get the best quirks for the last mechs. For this mech die so quickly, since now the hit box were worse the better. Please work more, I liked to see how more like the last packs

[MovinTarget]

PraetorGix, on 21 March 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

And following your very own logic, I would choose an Oxide or a Cheetah over a Jenner IIC for winning.

Every.single.time.

So; now I could say to you that you are not capable of taking advantage of the Archer's existing potential...
But, Archers get a Buff, IICs don't. Even if they are bound by exactly the same logic and reasoning.

1) Love the oxide, still play it when IS

2) own the Archers and living with the fact that I can't make them viable brawlers. I might give them a try after patch, but I've not put a lot of time into them... trying to finish up Steiner ranks before contract ends.

So you can throw my words back at me but it doesn't burn because I'm not butthurt about archers and love to drop in the Oxide.

In fact you've underscore my whole point which is "to each his own", but I am as entitled to an opinion as you with respect to my purchases. I am just trying to avoid the sh*tstorm of "Jenner IIc too OP must nerf" after a perfectly fine (though admittedly niche) chassis gets an unnecessary buff.

It was supposed to be a glass cannon. High risk, high reward. I think it lived up to that role. Same for the Hunchback IIc... Does anyone honestly believe a 50 ton mech that can crank out 80 dmg in under a second *should* be durable?

Now, after I have extolled the virtues of the Jenner IIc, I have a confession...

I am technically average in it. I have a slightly positive KDR in it. I average 273 dmg/match in it. I might do 700 dmg one match with 3 kills and have a couple of bombs to average it out. But good lord is it fun for fattie hunting!

My motto in the game is if its not fun, you're doing it wrong. Which is why you might consider trying a different approach to how you use it, or simply accepting its not your cup of tea and move on.

Edited by MovinTarget, 21 March 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

It'd be nice if Domination mode matches couldn't be won by a light 'mech cap race in less time that it takes the other team to reach the glowy circle of suck. Rushing to the central feature of every map had gotten boring as hell by three years ago, and making another game mode enshrine that heads-down charge behavior just seems like a waste of development hours.

[MovinTarget]

Solis Obscuri, on 21 March 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

It'd be nice if Domination mode matches couldn't be won by a light 'mech cap race in less time that it takes the other team to reach the glowy circle of suck. Rushing to the central feature of every map had gotten boring as hell by three years ago, and making another game mode enshrine that heads-down charge behavior just seems like a waste of development hours.

I've had a few times where I felt this mode should be reserved for the group queue as you'd hope for at least some coordination there. I've only had a couple of pug queue games where one team seems oblivious to the glowing circle but it might also just be a learning curve for players in the first weeks.

We'll see if things get better...

[Kurbeks]

ARC-5W should get generic missle quirks or SRM quirks instead of LRM quirks, then it will be a good mech

[sycocys]

1 patch a month doesn't seem to be doing anything to improve the quality of patches, but it does sure seem like it is at least initially saving PGI a ton of man hours in creating them.

[DarKnaud]

The archer don't need quirks, i played the 2R, 5S and 5W.

2R: 6xmedium laser + 2xLRM20 artemis, deadly combo to finish a target, played like a support mid range with a XL engine.

5S: 2xLarge pulse laser + 2xSRM6 +2xMedium laser, STD280, a good brawler.

5W: 9xLRM5 for fun.

Don't blame the mech if you are bad in game.

And the little **** nammed "jenner IIc" need a nerf, it's too overpowered for 35tons!

Edited by DarKnaud, 21 March 2016 - 09:08 PM.

[charov]

It's 0507 am in UK. I've already read enough idiocy for the day in this thread.

Seriously, no one can complain about Jenner and Hunch IIC (with the latter, 949 dmg first match with just 2xUAC10 and nothing else ). If you're not getting good results with them, then you are doing it wrong. Every old player should remember how fragile the IS counterparts were before quirks. If you have mastered them years ago, then you find the IIC very easy to play.
And stop crying about money spent. I paid the Kodiak, Archer, Invasion I, II, III, Phoenix Overlord, Legendary Founder (probably I'm forgetting something) just for support the game and I don't cry on any of the mechs I bought: if you want P2W then go play something else, kids.
Learn to play or die trying. Simple as that.



Ok, I can go to work happy now

[Scanz]

Wtfff
Huge structure buff Archer=another Maradeur
But still no hunchback nerf

Edited by Scanz, 21 March 2016 - 11:09 PM.

[Snuggles Time]

The Jenner IIC is a 35 ton assault mech, if you are complaining about a mech with a 72 point alpha strike running 130+ KPH being under powered it is YOU that is the problem.

The hunchback IIC is a glass cannon, if unchecked they do a lot of damage in a short amount of time. Yes they are squishy but they have to be to an extend for balance. The stock hunch back IIC has more fire power than all but one of the stock Black knights and at 25 less tons.

The Orion IIC...I'm not to sure on this one. I've seen skilled pilots do great in this mech, but then again skilled pilots will great in most mechs. Being on the receiving end of them they can be overwhelming at times with the right build. With that being said if the build is not optimized the mech becomes a giant cookie (which can probably be said for all mechs). If this mech is to get quirked it should be very lightly

The Highlander IIC only seems gimped because of the high number of missile hard points per mech. If all of the weapon systems were equally viable across all tiers of game play this mech would be one of the go to mechs. These mechs are power houses when set up for brawling and you have the support of the team. In solo que where it's everyone for themselves I can understand it under performing. I'm on the fence about it needs quirks, if it gets any it should be light as well.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, THE ARCHER IS GETTING FIXED!!!!!
and a few game modes are being refined too!

[Curccu]

PraetorGix, on 21 March 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

So, a hot fix to improve the Archer quirks but we are still waiting for IIC quirks... I paid real money for my Jenner too you know? And it needs better toughness just as much those Archers needed the buff.

IIC Jenner doesn't need any quirks, Orion and Highlander does.

[Solis Obscuri]

DarKnaud, on 21 March 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

The archer don't need quirks, i played the 2R, 5S and 5W.

2R: 6xmedium laser + 2xLRM20 artemis, deadly combo to finish a target, played like a support mid range with a XL engine.

5S: 2xLarge pulse laser + 2xSRM6 +2xMedium laser, STD280, a good brawler.

5W: 9xLRM5 for fun.

Don't blame the mech if you are bad in game.

And the little **** nammed "jenner IIc" need a nerf, it's too overpowered for 35tons!

Yeah, it really seemed as good or better than a lot of I.S. heavies right out of the gate. Though as @Kurbeks noted above, the ARC-5W would be better served with some general missile quirks and/or something to buff SRM performance, instead of just an LRM buff. I'm a little surprised that a bunch of missile-based fire support mechs are getting so many structure and energy weapon buffs.

Of course, I'm also totally perplexed as to why the RFL-LK should have so much of its quirks shackled to the goddamn LB10-X AC, so apparently I'm just completely out of step with what the devs are thinking.

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

Those changes to the timer make it 4x skirmish all over again.

You have buckeled to the MEMEME.

[Der Hesse]

Regarding the archer i must say it´s something but not enough.
Now i may master it without raging after nearly every match. But once i mastered it i think won´t play it again.
The reason is that there are better IS mechs already for every thing that the archer can do. Not to mention Clan mechs.

You want a good LRM-Boat? Better take the AWS-8R, ON1-VA, CPLT-C4 which are way better then any of the Archer variants. Or one of the many others that are at least as good.
You want to build a LRM5-Boat? Better take the CPLT-A1, the Golden Boy or the KTO-18.
The ECM of the Tempest won´t help much to make it unique enough to get used.

Regarding Brawling the structure buffs won´t help much. They may just compensate for the gigantic hitboxes. Though boating SRMs will convince some people to use the Archer. I for my part see many mechs out there that are better for this. Especially the Griffins who also have an ECM variant.

One niche could be for the ARC-5W to boat SSRMs just because no other IS mech can boat as many. But i don´t see this as a viable build. It is too slow to hunt lights and fast mediums and as a skilled pilot you are still better off against lights with pulse lasers then with those crippled IS SSRM2s. Better go Clan and take the Stormcrow or many others if you want to boat SSRMs.

Sniper? Not with a cockpit right in the crotch of the mech. Often enough i get 2-3 Alphas before i even see where the shots come from because i get shot over a ridge that i can´t look over. The high CT Energy slots are worthless if the cockpit is that low. Also you still can only put one high range Laser in it because IS variants need 2 crit slots and no PPC.

All i was wishing for was the new go to LRM-Boat. Wouldn´t have influenced meta too much because LRM´s are bad enough.
What i got was another 4 mechs to look at standing in my mach bay without engines and modules.

[happy mech]

+1 to fast reaction to game modes (though no safe time for start of domination)

+0 to quirk spiral

[Steinar Bergstol]

Gyrok, on 21 March 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

FFS, The archer LRM boat gets more structure quirks than the WHM at same tonnage, AND has bay doors that reduce damage by 10%??

Can they not just normalize the **** across tonnage?

Might have something to do with a stock Archer being more heavily armored than most heavies (including the Warhammer) and many Assaults. Durability was always one of the Archer's "selling points" in Battletech, much like the Thunderbolt (also an extremely well armored mech compared to many significantly heavier machines). Personally I'm of the feeling that quirks should reflect the stock loadouts and that mechs which came stock with heavier armor than average for its class should be the ones first in line for armor or structure quirks while maybe not getting so much in the way of offensive tweaks.

Heck, if I got my way I'd prefer the max armor of a mech being based on a certain additional percentage of its Stock value rather than being based on the mech tonnage like in the standard Construction rules. That would help preserve the character of the "tough bruisers" more instead of everything of the same weight slapping on the same amount of max armor.

[Tankashi Kotare]

Personally I think the Archer's are fine as they are. They take 2 alpha's from my 62 laser hunchback to the ST no problem.

Plus it's been a week and I doubt people have really found the best build for it yet, sure it looks like a LRM boat for now and the price for AMS has gone through the roof but that does not mean that it needs quirks already. Players are adapting to deal with Archers and the current shift into more LRM boats popping up but giving a buff to the 'new guy' because of this does not seem right to me at this stage.

And the changes to the game mode should have been obvious from the start. I don't think PGI understand how their own game is played, players identified this very problem before the release but PGI did nothing. Once those predictions came true they then decide to do something about it in a hot fix- This is just insane.

As a side note, I love the Hunchback IIC and would welcome a small increase to the internal structure (+5 or so) just to help it stand up in a laser fight.

Edited by Tankashi, 22 March 2016 - 01:53 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Great just what we needed a replacment Catapult with better hardpoints and MORE LRMS.....

BTW PGI, Reactive is not going to work for you, time to be proactive in you work.


Archers will also move up on the threat list I hope you like that PGI.


BTW instead of more quirks how about MORE GAME BALANCE

PPC needs some luv... all of them

Edited by KursedVixen, 22 March 2016 - 03:05 AM.