555 replies to this topic

[Stargazzer811]

I know there's probably dozens if not hundreds of forum posts on this subject, but one more won't hurt. Todays topic: Why Clan Mechs can't survive 30 seconds in a fight. Sure, very good players on the Clan side can make their mechs survive 20 minutes or more per match, but generally speaking, even they get rolled over when the Inner Sphere spams 3 Assault mechs per drop deck with nothing but AC/s and LRMs.

Now don't think I'm against the Inner Sphere. In fact I love IS Mechs and have fought for Davion in the past. I am just irked by the fact that even an IS PUG has a 50% better chance of rolling over a Clan PUG then the Clan's have of doing the same. Clan mechs should be superior to IS Mechs in almost every aspect, from their speed to their weapons, they should be able to wipe the floor with a 100 Ton Atlas within a moderate time frame.

Instead it takes 8 Clan mechs firing to bring down an IS Assault mech and sometimes even IS Heavy mechs. Meanwhile, our Dire Wolves and Executioners get cored to death in quiet corners by IS Light mechs. Do you see something wrong with that picture PGI, because myself and many other Clan Mechwarriors do. When I walk into a Clan v IS drop now, I completely expect to lose, because Clan mechs don't have the stopping power or armor to do anything to stop an IS Assault Rush. Furthermore, mechs like the Grasshopper and Black Knight, as Heavy mechs, are often carrying as much armor as assault mechs, and just as much firepower. That makes them even harder to take down, when they should be easier to take out.

Now Clan mechs carry a lot of firepower true, but when our weapons and our armor is nerfed to hell, it means jack compared to the IS mechs. So now, I am begging here, please fully unnerf the Clan mechs and find another way to balance it out so that the IS players don't whine about it. If you have to, do 10v12, a binary against a company. Just make it so the Clans have a chance here.

So now I leave it to you, fellow Mechwarriors, lets discuss.

[Tristan Winter]

Clan vs IS debates can be interesting, but you have to frame the question properly. You can't really talk much about Clan vs IS as a whole, because the comparison between a King Crab and a Dire Wolf is very different from a comparison between a Nova and a Centurion, or an Adder or a Firestarter. It's hard to talk about general problems and which side is generally weaker or stronger.

Quote

Clan mechs should be superior to IS Mechs in almost every aspect, from their speed to their weapons, they should be able to wipe the floor with a 100 Ton Atlas within a moderate time frame.

Flat out wrong. This is not the game you're looking for.

And if you're going to talk about Faction Play / CW specifically, then this isn't really the forum you're looking for either.

[KahnWongFuChung]

OP I bought Timberwolves back before all the stupid nerfs and I had so much fun Brawling in my timberwolf I thought I was back playing MechWarrior4Mercinaries again then whoever is in charge of balance fuckked up a lot of Clan mechs and some great IS mechs as well.

Whoever that person or persons are please give yourself a pink slip and leave PGI forever.Bring the Clan mechs back the way they were before all your stinking nerfs PGI.

PGI's best used tool below the nerf gun.

Edited by KahnWongFuChung, 22 March 2016 - 12:23 PM.

[himself]

Both sides have mechs that suck and utterly blow everything else out of the water.

The underlying problem here is laser vomit in general and light mechs with MOAR GUN syndrome.

[TKSax]

Balance is getting pretty close, Clan Mechs still have a Range Advantage, IS mechs have a Brawl advanate and structure advantage. The TimberWolf is still probably the best Heavy mech in game, all though the Black Knight and Grasshopper can fight it for that crown.

This is a solo game, you can go with how the mechs were in lore over how they would preform PvP Game. There are a lot of Clan mechs that needs some hel, as well as quite a few IS mechs.

[Scout Derek]

Um, I have to say, I digress and disagree?

Clan weapons do more damage, clan weapons take up less space and crits, Clans have more weapon varieties, and clan upgrades such as Endo and Ferro take up less space, and clan mechs in general get omnimechs, which can change limbs accordingly to get hardpoints of another variant?

While the IS still has Battlemechs, well that's what makes them unique, oops, wait, clans now have battlemechs, IICs, which means they can have any engine they have now and most freedom to customize

What's that? Kodiak is coming? It's 100 tons, no quirks, and it's a clan battlemech? It gets a insane amount of Energy Hardpoints for the 1st variant? It's got the 3rd Variant that can Dual Gauss? It's got a hero variant with MASC?

See, IS doesn't have much. when they do, that'll be the day PGI will actually buff clans and you can be happy with the results.

Good luck dealing with King Crabs with Dual UAC/20s, in short 4 AC/20 shots within 5 seconds.

Talk about meta

[Gas Guzzler]

himself, on 22 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Both sides have mechs that suck and utterly blow everything else out of the water.

The underlying problem here is laser vomit in general and light mechs with MOAR GUN syndrome.

Which is why laser vomit only accounts for 1/3 of the meta game right?



OP: You are not playing right if your Clan mechs "only last 30 seconds" in a fight. Also, you say that good Clan players still get rolled by Assaults loaded with AC's (yeah those are good) or LRM's (THIS IS UTTERLY LAUGHABLE). If IS LRMs are creating problems for you, than I'm sorry, I will not have a balance discussion with you.

Seriously, balance is pretty solid right now when it comes to Clan vs IS. Both sides have things that they are good at.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 March 2016 - 12:28 PM.

[himself]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 March 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

Which is why laser vomit only accounts for 1/3 of the meta game right?

What is this even supposed to mean?

[Scout Derek]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 March 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

Which is why laser vomit only accounts for 1/3 of the meta game right?



OP: You are not playing right if your Clan mechs "only last 30 seconds" in a fight.

Look at OP's post count: 2.

He may have been around here since last year just about, but he never comes here to the forums it seems, at least, I believe so.

Players who make a generalization that 100 ton IS assault mechs should be taken down within 20 seconds if a Dire and Atlas went at it are general wrong.

Dire Wolf would kick the Atlases *** if it had no quirks. Now? A bit more balanced, Dire would have to act fast to disable the AC/20 it packs in order to slow down the DPS it kicks out with it, otherwise Atlas focuses and pops one ST of Dire and it's gimped in the fight against the Atlas.

[Gas Guzzler]

himself, on 22 March 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

What is this even supposed to mean?

You say that laser vomit is the problem, yet SRMs and Autocannons have an extremely strong foothold in high level play. Saying laser vomit is the "problem" is wrong.

[Alardus]

Because IS lovers cried.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alardus, on 22 March 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

Because IS lovers cried.

The game is balanced right now, regardless of who cried, (IS and Clan tears are in surplus. I heard they are trucking them to California to help with the water shortage) IS vs Clan balance is pretty good right now.

[Metus regem]

[Rogue Jedi]

no IS Mech can survive 30 seconds of sustained fire from the enemy team, the same as no Clan Mech can, if the entire enemy team is shooting at you you generally die in 5-10 seconds.

An Atlas or King Crab go down just as fast to a Jenner IIC or Arctic Cheetah as a Dire Wolf or Executioner do to a Firestarter or Jenner.

There is in my opinion little differance in it in terms of effectiveness between Clan and IS, the thing is that now the TBR has a competition for best Mech in the game from WHM and MAD

[himself]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 March 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

You say that laser vomit is the problem, yet SRMs and Autocannons have an extremely strong foothold in high level play. Saying laser vomit is the "problem" is wrong.

LOL

Good one, you got me.

[Summon3r]

because pgi insists on "trying" to balance on a 1 to 1 or mech to mech basis.

[Apnu]

Avalon91211, on 22 March 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

I know there's probably dozens if not hundreds of forum posts on this subject, but one more won't hurt. Todays topic: Why Clan Mechs can't survive 30 seconds in a fight. Sure, very good players on the Clan side can make their mechs survive 20 minutes or more per match, but generally speaking, even they get rolled over when the Inner Sphere spams 3 Assault mechs per drop deck with nothing but AC/s and LRMs.

Now don't think I'm against the Inner Sphere. In fact I love IS Mechs and have fought for Davion in the past. I am just irked by the fact that even an IS PUG has a 50% better chance of rolling over a Clan PUG then the Clan's have of doing the same. Clan mechs should be superior to IS Mechs in almost every aspect, from their speed to their weapons, they should be able to wipe the floor with a 100 Ton Atlas within a moderate time frame.

Instead it takes 8 Clan mechs firing to bring down an IS Assault mech and sometimes even IS Heavy mechs. Meanwhile, our Dire Wolves and Executioners get cored to death in quiet corners by IS Light mechs. Do you see something wrong with that picture PGI, because myself and many other Clan Mechwarriors do. When I walk into a Clan v IS drop now, I completely expect to lose, because Clan mechs don't have the stopping power or armor to do anything to stop an IS Assault Rush. Furthermore, mechs like the Grasshopper and Black Knight, as Heavy mechs, are often carrying as much armor as assault mechs, and just as much firepower. That makes them even harder to take down, when they should be easier to take out.

Now Clan mechs carry a lot of firepower true, but when our weapons and our armor is nerfed to hell, it means jack compared to the IS mechs. So now, I am begging here, please fully unnerf the Clan mechs and find another way to balance it out so that the IS players don't whine about it. If you have to, do 10v12, a binary against a company. Just make it so the Clans have a chance here.

So now I leave it to you, fellow Mechwarriors, lets discuss.

Because PGI wants every mech, ton-for-ton, to be equal. And PGI wants mixed tech teams, and PGI wants the game to always be 12v12.

The clans get all kinds of bennies the IS don't. Free CASE on everything. lighter, smaller, and longer range weapons. Two slot heat sinks. Two slot per torso XL engines. All of which is in the original source books and canon of Battletech.

So to compensate for that, and some model design advantages like the SCR, they get bad quirks to make them competitive against the IS in a generic sense.

Pity because the IS should be about brawling and endurance, and the clans should be about range, but not so.

It also hurts the game that PGI still hasn't figured out how to make "community warfare" an actual pillar of the game instead of a mode for comp teams on crappy maps.

If they took a IS map centric view of the game. Were all games mattered to the outcome of the IS map in some way, where players were encouraged to pick a faction and stick with it, maybe allow players to have multiple pilots in different factions, then we can have less negative Clan quirks.

Imagine if taking a clan mech meant you were stuck on a clan only team and had 10 players on the team. And maybe you'd face another clan team of the same rough weight, or maybe you faced an IS team of 12, but also less quirks and more brawly, that would be fun and BT/MW fluffy.

Imagine also that PUG games were faction based, generic one-off brawls like the above (IS v IS, Clan v Clan, or IS v Clan) but the winning of the game meant some kind of faction perk. Like a flash sale of some kind. Or cheaper mech purchases because that planet makes x mech and your faction or "race" owns it.

You could still have the Invasion mode, initiated by teams wanting to open attack lanes and/or challenge other teams.

Its win-win for everybody.

But PGI isn't there yet. So we keep this wall between the Quick Play players and the Faction Warfare player, and because Quick Play is such a mix-and-match slop bucket, IS and clan tech has to be equal. Which ruins the feel and immersion of the game.

[0bsidion]

Like I've said before, Clan tech in all its glory is great against the AI in single player games, which can't complain and doesn't mind being outgunned, and against players that don't mind the challenge.

The problem we have is that all the mechs, both IS and Clan, are tossed together at random in a giant mixing pot in an arena shooter combined with players that min/max everything and thus gravitate to whatever FoTM mechs/builds/weapons are perceived as being the most powerful at the moment.

So barring a radical change in the entire way the game is structured, if Clan tech wasn't nerfed silly, IS mechs would only be piloted by a handful of masochists and rarely, if ever, be seen again. I don't like it, but that's just the way it is until HBS releases their take on BT.

Edited by 0bsidion, 22 March 2016 - 12:53 PM.

[FupDup]

Because a number of them were overpowered as **** for a long time.

Edited by FupDup, 22 March 2016 - 12:50 PM.

[SplashDown]

Its typical PGI they brought IS mechs in line for balance but they also OVER NERFED many clan mechs to the point they are unworthy of being played....i would say 80% of all clan mechs are now not worth playing compared to the 20% that still remain viable.
Many great clan mechs wer so over nerfed that they are nothing more than mothball mechs doing nothing but collecting dust.
In fact many clan mechs have such huge heat problems that assault and hvy clan mechs are reduced to running weapons load-outs comparable to a med mech..and med clan mechs run weapons of a light mech load out.

Now it would be easy to blame the IS pro cry-baby players..and IS does have alot of those.
The true blame lies with PGI...Anytime PGI touches somehting in game they allways go from 1 extreme to another..and for some reason PGI doesnt understand the word moderation...I dunno if its becuz the programmers are stupid? lack common sense?.OR are just D average programmers? or all of the above. To use a trump slogan these are not smart ppl.

This is also why i recamend NOT buying any of the clan mech packs as you might get 1 MAYBE 2 decent mechs..the rest you wont want to play ..so is a waist of money.

Edited by SplashDown, 22 March 2016 - 12:52 PM.